The Knicks will still have a gaping hole at the C position and a PG that absolutely HAS TO be replaced in a year or two. Billups is either a sideways move or slight upgrade over Felton in the "short term", but there's no chance that the Knicks can win it all in time for him to be part of it. So long term PG is still an issue. If we wind up with CP3 or Williams (no guarantee because we don't have any assets to trade anymore) we'll still be a horrible defensive and rebounding team without a legitimate high quality C to defend the paint and rebound. We definitely don't have the cap space and assets to get that player.

The Knicks are going to turn themselves into the Atlanta Hawks. They are a team that will be good enough to win 50 games and get into the playoffs, but they'll get KO'd in the first or second round every year.

If this deal goes down, I'm going to immediately start thinking about our rebuilding plan for 2016. That's how bad it is LONG TERM.

martin wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

martin wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

joec32033 wrote:Felton

I don't mind the trade, it isn't horrible, but now we need a PG within the next 2. I REALLY hope Paul still has knees left or Deron leaves Mormon Country.

I agree with you..How 'bout Moz or our 2014 1st in lieu of Felton..We sweeten the pot for them, everyone keeps their own PG.

I can't believe Ray Felton became a dealbreaker in this..I was really looking forward to building this thing with him.

LOL Repeat after me: Moz ain't going anywhere.

Why???????? I think he sucks..So incredibly far off from contributing at the NBA level fulltime it's rediculous..Moz is suddenly some untouchable from the Knicks' perspective?? Laughable..

That's cause you aren't projecting. And you are also denying what the Knicks' management is thinking, which is that they LOVE him. MDA says it after every game and we all know that Walsh loves big men.

Moz has barely played basketball relative to his American counterparts. No AAU ball over in Russia, and he started late, like in the last year or so of high school equivalent.

Dude is legit 7'1" and active. And he practices HARD. You can't teach those things, but you can mold and add to them. And that's why the Knicks love him and why you will see this kid blossom.

He still has his weak points, but you are missing something on the court if you think he sucks.

Look, some of that may be so (lets keep some of you're glowing praise for the dude in perspective though: contrary to what you might believe, most if not all young players in the NBA go hard in practice unless they're looking for a one-way ticket right outta the league, so nothing standout or extraordinary here)..Nevertheless, I stand by my statement from above 100% -- Mozgov is far off from contributing anything major fulltime in the NBA. When he plays, 95% of the time it appears that we're carrying him out there rather than him adding anything beneficial to our overall team play on either end. You tell me what I'm missing buddy --- he can't catch passes unless they come giftwrapped; he blows dunks, pointblank layups and easy putbacks all the time; for every jumper he might hit, he'll brick the next 2-3 (if he hits a jumper it's usually from the baseline--elbow or top of the key jumpers are a different story & an adventure for him--just something I've noticed), and on the defensive end he's a subpar rebounder & shot-blocker (this is where we need him the most and comes up empty the most) with bad timing and questionable instincts despite the mammoth height you spoke about...Projection?? Yeah it's pretty easy to project that he'll get better -- there's no way to go but up..LOL. On the flip side, he is big and he does have a modicum of upside I suppose which Denver could certainly use esp. considering they'll be in full-blown rebuilding mode and in need of some size (K-Mart finally comes off their books, Melvin Ely and Shelden Williams as well, Nene probably gets traded by next year's deadline if not sooner and it seems like the Birdman's always hurt--Andersen ain't no real 5 anyway)..I think he has more value to Denver than here with us quite frankly. I think we can do better and I want better..There are bigs projected to go in the 2nd round this summer that I'd consider more versatile and more NBA-ready over Timmy Mozgov..That's a fact..Bottom line, I'd much rather include Mozgov or Mozgov+ in an attempt to keep Felton out of the deal (although I'm beginning to warm up to the idea of having Billups and then devising a way to come up with the cap room for D-Will or CP3 eventually)..Hey, that's me man..i see what I see, you're gonna see what you see. Don't bother responding -- we'll just agree to disagree here..Don't feel like getting into a discussion about Tim Mozgov - getting ready to watching the second half of the rookie/soph game.

martin wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Y! Sports has learned NYK has now offered Gallo, Felton, Chandler, Curry and a to be acquired 1st rounder to DEN for Melo, Billups & fillers

Imagine if whatever team Randolph is going to for the 1st rounder (Portland, Indiana??) now trys to Shanghai us in that deal for more than just Randolph??? Wow, would I go nuts!!

AR, $3M and Curry would go to Twolves for low level pick back. that's how Denver save a boatload of luxary money. This is prob already set in stone.

I hope so.

Finestrg wrote:

martin wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

martin wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

joec32033 wrote:Felton

I don't mind the trade, it isn't horrible, but now we need a PG within the next 2. I REALLY hope Paul still has knees left or Deron leaves Mormon Country.

I agree with you..How 'bout Moz or our 2014 1st in lieu of Felton..We sweeten the pot for them, everyone keeps their own PG.

I can't believe Ray Felton became a dealbreaker in this..I was really looking forward to building this thing with him.

LOL Repeat after me: Moz ain't going anywhere.

Why???????? I think he sucks..So incredibly far off from contributing at the NBA level fulltime it's rediculous..Moz is suddenly some untouchable from the Knicks' perspective?? Laughable..

That's cause you aren't projecting. And you are also denying what the Knicks' management is thinking, which is that they LOVE him. MDA says it after every game and we all know that Walsh loves big men.

Moz has barely played basketball relative to his American counterparts. No AAU ball over in Russia, and he started late, like in the last year or so of high school equivalent.

Dude is legit 7'1" and active. And he practices HARD. You can't teach those things, but you can mold and add to them. And that's why the Knicks love him and why you will see this kid blossom.

He still has his weak points, but you are missing something on the court if you think he sucks.

Look, some of that may be so (lets keep some of you're glowing praise for the dude in perspective though: contrary to what you might believe, most if not all young players in the NBA go hard in practice unless they're looking for a one-way ticket right outta the league, so nothing standout or extraordinary here)..Nevertheless, I stand by my statement from above 100% -- Mozgov is far off from contributing anything major fulltime in the NBA. When he plays, 95% of the time it appears that we're carrying him out there rather than him adding anything beneficial to our overall team play on either end. You tell me what I'm missing buddy --- he can't catch passes unless they come giftwrapped; he blows dunks, pointblank layups and easy putbacks all the time; for every jumper he might hit, he'll brick the next 2-3 (if he hits a jumper it's usually from the baseline--elbow or top of the key jumpers are a different story & an adventure for him--just something I've noticed), and on the defensive end he's a subpar rebounder & shot-blocker (this is where we need him the most and comes up empty the most) with bad timing and questionable instincts despite the mammoth height you spoke about...Projection?? Yeah it's pretty easy to project that he'll get better -- there's no way to go but up..LOL. On the flip side, he is big and he does have a modicum of upside I suppose which Denver could certainly use esp. considering they'll be in full-blown rebuilding mode and in need of some size (K-Mart finally comes off their books, Melvin Ely and Shelden Williams as well, Nene probably gets traded by next year's deadline if not sooner and it seems like the Birdman's always hurt--Andersen ain't no real 5 anyway)..I think he has more value to Denver than here with us quite frankly. I think we can do better and I want better..There are bigs projected to go in the 2nd round this summer that I'd consider more versatile and more NBA-ready over Timmy Mozgov..That's a fact..Bottom line, I'd much rather include Mozgov or Mozgov+ in an attempt to keep Felton out of the deal (although I'm beginning to warm up to the idea of having Billups and the devising a way to come up with the cap room for D-Will or CP3 eventually)..Hey, that's me man..i see what I see, you're gonna see what you see. Don't bother responding -- we'll just agree to disagree here..Don't feel like getting into a discussion about Tim Mozgov - getting ready to watching the second half of the rookie/soph game.

in a year you will be creating a man-up thread.

ItalianStallion wrote:This is a horrible deal.

The Knicks will still have a gaping hole at the C position and a PG that absolutely HAS TO be replaced in a year or two. Billups is either a sideways move or slight upgrade over Felton in the "short term", but there's no chance that the Knicks can win it all in time for him to be part of it. So long term PG is still an issue. If we wind up with CP3 or Williams (no guarantee because we don't have any assets to trade anymore) we'll still be a horrible defensive and rebounding team without a legitimate high quality C to defend the paint and rebound. We definitely don't have the cap space and assets to get that player.

The Knicks are going to turn themselves into the Atlanta Hawks. They are a team that will be good enough to win 50 games and get into the playoffs, but they'll get KO'd in the first or second round every year.

If this deal goes down, I'm going to immediately start thinking about our rebuilding plan for 2016. That's how bad it is LONG TERM.

Billups is still very effective and he's even said that he'd like to play 4 more years. The guys game isn't predicated on a lot of body draining activity. He's never really worried about spectacular drives and dunks. He's in great shape and could probably play like this for a few more years. Kidd is still playing as is Nash. Great PG's can be effective well into their 30's. Meanwhile, you know we'll be looking for a replacement or backup to augment the PG spot next year.

As for just how good this team can get, it's impossible to say. We've never seen this team with 2 studs on it. We don't know just how much better this team would be with Melo and STAT. I can guess that we won't miss Chan and Gallo as much as some might think. Playing with each other should only enhance how effective both Melo and STAT already are. Billups is no scrub. The guys still a great player. IMO we're a better team after this deal. We should be far more consistent, which was our biggest problem. When one star goes to the bench, we still have another one. That can only help.

FeltonandAmare wrote:I'm in Denver and the local station is saying it's a done deal. All that remains is a formal announcement. They said it was Felton, Chandler, Gallo, big waster of human skin and a first round pick for Melo, Chauncey and 2 bench players to make it work out financially.

*Looks at registration date and post count*

*Looks at "local station" as a source*

*Laughs*

Childs2Dudley wrote:

WOODMANnYk wrote:Frank Isola from daily News was on SNY live and reported Nuggets do not want Wilson Chandler because he becomes a restricted free agent after the season. They want Fields instead. They want Gallo, Fields ,Curry, 1st round pick and felton

He also said Dolan has taken over the duscussion on a possible trade instead of walsh and dantoni.

Walsh and Dantoni think it's a bit too much..

Goddamn it, Dolan is a moron. Isiah is basically the GM through Dolan now. We're going to get raped.

hey man, I know you are just frustrated, but think twice about using that type of phrase, it's a delicate one and should be treated as such.

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:I was hoping the nets swoop in and make a deal and save the knicks future.. but hey, time for me to start watching nuggets games, with gallo and if they keep chandler, they will have a good young team, that will be very interesting in a year or two.. if anything, denver now becomes my second favorite team... over Atlanta...

dumb ass trade if this goes down.. I am convinced.. REBUILDING WILL NEVER HAPPEN IN NY!! EVER!!

I know you are emotional right now, and Gallo is perhaps your fav player and it styings to lose him, but explain why this is a bad deal? We are trading Gallo a good but inconsistant 22 yr old, Chandler who walks anyway, and swapping Felt for a more playoff experienced player in Billups. It seems as if we Knick fans wanted to rape the Nuggs and get an allstar for fodder. But what about the Nuggs fan base? You have to give to get and I think this is a fair deal. Melo is by far the best player in this trade.

Honestly, I am losing interest, now it is reported that denver wants fields instead of chandler because chandler is a RFA, and it is also reported that dolan has taken over trade negotiations.. ROFL.. which means Isiah is now our GM.. if this trade goes down, I am done... will start watching nuggets games.... for real..

Theres a flurry of reports out there. Hard to cherry pick which ones to believe. With that said, its hard to believe that Walsh is asleep in his wheelchair allowing Dolan to negotiate. As I mentioned earlier, this Isola who is reporting this. If I've ever seen a Knick beat writer with an agenda, its him.

MaTT4281 wrote:

martin wrote:BTW, I have only caught about 5 minutes of Rookie game... Are Melo and Amare coaching? I didn't see them.

Ya, Sager had a quick interview with Melo and basically told him he could end this drama by saying he'll finish out the year with Denver and be a free agent in the summer. (Melo just kept repeating he's trying to have a good time this weekend with fam/friends)

McHale was knocking Amar'e for his pink shoe laces. That's about it.

thanks.