TMS wrote:

eViL wrote:you're pretty ridiculous. lol

so Amare + Melo + vet minimum players are going to beat Lebron + Wade + Bosh + vet minimum players?

lol, so now u wanna change your argument from being we won't be able to attract any role players to now we won't be able to beat Miami's big 3 & role players?

ridiculous. lol

read my whole post that you were originally responding to:

you still haven't addressed how we're going to "easily replace" those players with no cap space, no draft picks and no valuable trade assets. miami is going to be in the market for the same role players that we are. and they will have the edge based on their "big 3" v. our "big 2." they will be the top destination for ring chasing vets. we will be left with scraps.

how do we beat Miami? everything we do has to be focused on beating them. like it or not, they will be the standard bearer in the east when the celtics eventually get too old. how do we beat miami if they have a better "big 3" and a better supporting cast??

all of this was in the context of having to save assets to go after a third star (but i pulled it from another thread because nixluva didn't respond). which is why I don't advocating going beyond:

chandler, randolph, eddy curry

for

melo

i don't think the knicks should trade more than they would eventually need to give up anyway to sign him. that's my stance. save our assets and then you can trade for the final piece. in my view, it's the only way to do battle with miami.

eViL wrote:

TMS wrote:

eViL wrote:you're pretty ridiculous. lol

so Amare + Melo + vet minimum players are going to beat Lebron + Wade + Bosh + vet minimum players?

lol, so now u wanna change your argument from being we won't be able to attract any role players to now we won't be able to beat Miami's big 3 & role players?

ridiculous. lol

read my whole post that you were originally responding to:

you still haven't addressed how we're going to "easily replace" those players with no cap space, no draft picks and no valuable trade assets. miami is going to be in the market for the same role players that we are. and they will have the edge based on their "big 3" v. our "big 2." they will be the top destination for ring chasing vets. we will be left with scraps.

how do we beat Miami? everything we do has to be focused on beating them. like it or not, they will be the standard bearer in the east when the celtics eventually get too old. how do we beat miami if they have a better "big 3" and a better supporting cast??

all of this was in the context of having to save assets to go after a third star (but i pulled it from another thread because nixluva didn't respond). which is why I don't advocating going beyond:

chandler, randolph, eddy curry

for

melo

i don't think the knicks should trade more than they would eventually need to give up anyway to sign him. that's my stance. save our assets and then you can trade for the final piece. in my view, it's the only way to do battle with miami.

i don't have the 100% proven answer on how to beat Miami, i don't think anyone does, not DW either... all we can do is consider the realistic options we have available to us to improve our team... the rest often gets decided by luck or random occurences... of course everyone wants to follow a sound plan of action, but having the sole goal of trying to figure out how to beat Miami otherwise it's not a move worth making is the wrong way to go about things IMO... right now we have a top NBA talent that's available to us... when is the next time things are gonna present themselves to us like that? does anyone know? do u think it's wise to leave fortune up to fate like that rather than taking fate into our own hands when the opportunity is there?

i understand giving up more assets to get Melo than we need to give up anyway to sign him might not appeal to you but it appeals to a ton of other Knick fans, & my guess is it appeals to DW as well otherwise he wouldn't even be engaging the Nuggets in these trade talks to begin with... for the added benefit of adding Melo to the team months in advance of the summer i think it's reasonable to think we should have to give up at least 1 valuable asset more than we'd otherwise have to if we waited for him in free agency... i'm not saying i'm in favor of giving up the kitchen sink like BRIGGS has alluded to in other threads, but i do think a package of 2 of our top 3 young guys, Felton, Curry & a 1st round pick is not an unfair package at all to get back Melo & Chauncey Billups... both those guys would be huge in the postseason i get wood thinking about it sometimes. no homo.

loweyecue wrote:

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:For me this is about as big a fluff piece you can get. Who is worried more, Donnie or MDA? That's what is centers around? Worried?

the way i interpret this article is Lupica making the argument that it might be MDA who might be holding up the Melo trade & not necessarily DW... i think there might be some points to consider here... if u think about it DW's plan has been to get 2 superstar players to build around from the very beginning... he's been in dump salary mode for the past 2 years to get to this point where he could make a deal to get a player like Melo... i think Lupica's suggesting it doesn't make much sense that DW would be reluctant to make a trade that fulfills his mission statement, especially when he's in the last year of his contract & trying to appease his boss to get an extension... he seems to be suggesting that a Melo trade puts a ton more pressure on MDA because losing too many pieces is less attractive to the coach who will be coaching the team after the deal gets done, & not so much on the GM since he would have essentially fulfilled his original plan if he succeeded in pairing Melo with Amare in NY.

I don't think what Donnie started is the same thing as what he is considering now. Yes he started by dumping salary and a fine jobe he did too. We don't have salary to dump any more except Curry. So I am not sure how you can equate that situation with this.

How does a coach who has put time and effort into making these guys play and work together as a unit not object to losing three starters? Is his neck on the line? Absolutely, anyone who signs up to coah the Knicks knows that. I would be more worried if he ddin't object to this, it would tell me he has misplaced his sense of value in our team. Coach's have to be loyal to tose who goo out there and execute for them, otherwise they would lose the team overnight. What Lupica is doing is taking that and spinning it to fit with the crap he preaches.

Donnie signing Felton to a 2 year deal was with the express thought of being able to woo CP3 in 2012 IMHO... i don't think his plan is to build around role players, i think his plan is to build around stars... everything he's done up to this point, from not extending D Lee to an extension, to dumping Zach & Jamal to clear their salaries, to dumping assets to get Fishlips' salary off the books, to only signing Felton to a 2 year deal all point to him trying to steer his way towards a trade or free agency signing that will land us a big fish... we got 1 big fish last summer, i don't think DW is gonna stop there... maybe i have no idea what i'm talking about, i probably don't, but i feel strongly that this is the plan he's trying to put into action in NY... & i think that's the plan Dolan was sold on otherwise he wouldn't have been willing to sacrifice 2 years to just end up with a team full of role players & 1 star player.

what MDA's feelings are on the trade is anyone's guess, who knows how to read this guy i've given up trying... i just thought Lupica brought up some interesting points to consider, that's all.

I don't expect Donnie to be a fool, but in the end Dolan is gonna want to get the deal done and I don't think he'll let this opportunity slip away. I think if Melo tells the Nets he won't sign with them, it's a wrap and we won't have to go to defcon 5 and sell off the whole team. We can make a reasonable deal and still get Melo. That's the only way this goes down IMO. With the Knicks right there, what's the incentive for Melo to agree to going to the Nets and losing for years? His agent has to be smart enough to know that they would be giving up the franchise just to get Melo and won't have as many options to improve the team.

Mray20 wrote:If we don't get Melo I want Donnie out of here and Dantoni can follow him right out the door cause I think it's pretty obvious this team won't get past the first round without multiple stars and Dantoni is only a good coach when he has a bunch of talent for his offense ala Phoenix .

Right now as it stands the Knicks would face the Bulls and they are not unbeatable. Even with the Team we have now there's a fighters chance against the Bulls. We just matchup well against them.

I don't think you're being fair to Mike in saying that he is only good when he has a bunch of talent. Mike Brown was pretty successful when he had Lebron. Phil Jax has had some of the most talented teams in NBA history. Of course you need good talent.

IMO it's all up to Melo now. If he tells them that he won't sign with the Nets, he'll be a Knick.