Heck, making the trade and giving up all of those pieces doesn't make sense for us THIS year.

However, it's far easier to replace players at Gallo/Chandler/Mozgov/Fields current level than a YOUNG STAR (soon to be 27) like Carmelo who's capable of being a #1 scorer on a team. As good as each of the rest are TODAY, none of them has really shown they could even be a consistent #2 offensive threat now, and perhaps not even in the future.

Equating this to baseball starting pitchers, we've got a bunch of #3 starters (12-15 wins) and a solid defensive catcher in Mozgov who's just starting to show signs of some pop. And now you've got a chance to give them all up for an ace... but that'd leave a lot of holes.

Given what's being asked of us, I'd be very curious to see what we'd be getting back alongside Carmelo, because Denver's already got 15 players on their roster... so we'd be getting some #4s and fringe starters back in the deal.

Usually the team that gets the best player (in this case, Melo) wins.

SupremeCommander wrote:

OasisBU wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I would still make the deal. Would try to keep Fields. Think he oculd be special. Don't think that about the rest and believe they're all replaceable.

You do realize how much work it took just to get to this level o talent right? It's not like the Knicks can just fill the roster with these types of players - it has taken many years of trades to get here. Are they elite? No, but I don't think it will be easy to fill out a roster with limited cap room and no draft picks.

Was "You do realize how much work it took just to get to this level o talent right?" really necessary? Don't appreciate it. Disagree all you want but in the words of Mark Jackson, come on man, you're better than that

I'm not sure why you take offense at that, I am simply stating that its not easy to fill a roster out - no offense was intended.

I guess I don't see it as an easy task considering the past decade of Knicks history and gutting the team for 1 player is not a decision I would take lightly.

To me it looks like we do not have the pieces to land Melo in a trade if we have to gut the entire team. It simply does not make sense. I said it in another post - if the guy wants to play here, he will find a way to get here that leaves a competitive roster. I am not down for signing him to a $65 MM extension in order for him and Amar'e to be the only players on our team surrounded by scrubs.

I think we have a great supporting cast for these guys and if you can land another player of Melo/Chris Paul status to play with Amar'e and our bunch (minus 1-2 pieces most likely) then I think we can contend. If we gut the team for Melo I see the Celtics, Heat, and Lakers all beating us and there is not point in building a team like that.

umynot wrote: Garnett was signed long term and could of been traded anywhere!!

I think Garnett was an extend and trade....not already signed.

AnubisADL wrote:Some people willing to wait until summer wont be happy until Melo is playing in Chicago.

you really think this goes down? To Chicago? Make your argument.

Chicago just hired what turned out to be a very good coach and they play defense and their best player likes the ball in his hands at all times.

What does adding Melo and getting rid of a tough-ass center who doesn't need the ball add to that team? Or do you think that they trade other pieces (Booz? Deng?)

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Some people willing to wait until summer wont be happy until Melo is playing in Chicago.

you really think this goes down? To Chicago? Make your argument.

Chicago just hired what turned out to be a very good coach and they play defense and their best player likes the ball in his hands at all times.

What does adding Melo and getting rid of a tough-ass center who doesn't need the ball add to that team? Or do you think that they trade other pieces (Booz? Deng?)

Chicago is winning WITHOUT Joakim Noah. Denver is said to want him and this summer Noah no longer has BYC restrictions.

I assume Noah is better than some picks from the NY Knicks.

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Some people willing to wait until summer wont be happy until Melo is playing in Chicago.

you really think this goes down? To Chicago? Make your argument.

Chicago just hired what turned out to be a very good coach and they play defense and their best player likes the ball in his hands at all times.

What does adding Melo and getting rid of a tough-ass center who doesn't need the ball add to that team? Or do you think that they trade other pieces (Booz? Deng?)

Chicago is winning WITHOUT Joakim Noah. Denver is said to want him and this summer Noah no longer has BYC restrictions.

I assume Noah is better than some picks from the NY Knicks.

you didn't really answer my questions or take the response but one step beyond its implications.

Chicago WITH Noah would be an even better team. They match small, big and could be tough at every position (they need to fill SG).

Without Noah, they can't match Boston or LA or Spurs in the middle and they play to the strengths of Miami, OKC more (which is not a good thing).

Again, what does adding Melo and subtracting the likes of Noah do for the team? Melo needs ball and so does Rose. One of those guys gets significantly worse and so does the defense.

That is your opinion about whether Chicago can beat the Spurs, Boston, or LA without Noah.

Noah is a solid big but Chicago obviously doesnt need him to win games just like LA doesnt need Bynum. Chicago has issues scoring consistently. Carmelo+Rose+Boozer surrounded by role players is a contender.

Also Boston, LA, and Spurs arent getting any younger.

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Some people willing to wait until summer wont be happy until Melo is playing in Chicago.

you really think this goes down? To Chicago? Make your argument.

Chicago just hired what turned out to be a very good coach and they play defense and their best player likes the ball in his hands at all times.

What does adding Melo and getting rid of a tough-ass center who doesn't need the ball add to that team? Or do you think that they trade other pieces (Booz? Deng?)

Chicago is winning WITHOUT Joakim Noah. Denver is said to want him and this summer Noah no longer has BYC restrictions.

I assume Noah is better than some picks from the NY Knicks.

you didn't really answer my questions or take the response but one step beyond its implications.

Chicago WITH Noah would be an even better team. They match small, big and could be tough at every position (they need to fill SG).

Without Noah, they can't match Boston or LA or Spurs in the middle and they play to the strengths of Miami, OKC more (which is not a good thing).

Again, what does adding Melo and subtracting the likes of Noah do for the team? Melo needs ball and so does Rose. One of those guys gets significantly worse and so does the defense.

That is your opinion about whether Chicago can beat the Spurs, Boston, or LA without Noah.

Noah is a solid big but Chicago obviously doesnt need him to win games just like LA doesnt need Bynum. Chicago has issues scoring consistently. Carmelo+Rose+Boozer surrounded by role players is a contender.

Also Boston, LA, and Spurs arent getting any younger.

I don't think so. Boozer, Melo, Rose WITH Noah might be the favorites but without Noah and his defense, they wouldn't be a contender. You need defense just as much as scoring to win the NBA title, especially from your big men. Without Noah, The Bulls would get to the second round and the ECFs if lucky, but they wouldn't get any further. With Noah, it's a different story.

Like I have said... Melo isn't the basketball Savior as you are making him out to be.

nixluva wrote:We should be able to meet in the middle on this. More than our original offer, but not as much as the Nuggets are asking. This deal gets done IMO. The risks for both teams are too high not to find a way to make a good compromise. We came in too low and now they've come back too high. Just get the deal done already. We've got 3 games before the deadline and i'd like to see this deal done before the 3rd game against the Bucks.

this is how negotiations generally work... 1 side presents their lowball offer, the other side presents their extreme demands, & you try & meet somewhere in the middle... i have no doubt DW is gonna do what he can to get this deal done w/o having to gut the entire roster, but you need 2 to tango... if DEN isn't willing to be reasonable in this then the only thing we need to worry about is whether Dolan panics & agrees to giving up everything DEN wants to get the deal done, which is always a legitimate threat.

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:We should be able to meet in the middle on this. More than our original offer, but not as much as the Nuggets are asking. This deal gets done IMO. The risks for both teams are too high not to find a way to make a good compromise. We came in too low and now they've come back too high. Just get the deal done already. We've got 3 games before the deadline and i'd like to see this deal done before the 3rd game against the Bucks.

this is how negotiations generally work... 1 side presents their lowball offer, the other side presents their extreme demands, & you try & meet somewhere in the middle... i have no doubt DW is gonna do what he can to get this deal done w/o having to gut the entire roster, but you need 2 to tango... if DEN isn't willing to be reasonable in this then the only thing we need to worry about is whether Dolan panics & agrees to giving up everything DEN wants to get the deal done, which is always a legitimate threat.

Funny thing is that even if we do "gut the Team" so to speak, I still think in the long run it would be worth it. People tend to understate how much impact great players have on teams. You just look at the Heat and if you take the 2 top guys off the team what do they have? So even if we don't have a super deep team right after the trade, that doesn't mean we won't be able to fill in the spots we need at some point in the offseason or later. I do know that you have ONE ELITE guy that's actually available for us to get right now and so if you end up having to overspend I think you have to do it. But still I think we'll be able to meet in the middle tho.

if the circumstances were different & DEN had other options open to them to deal Melo to then a much better case could be made to "gut the roster" to get an elite talent, but that isn't the case here... DEN has 1 real trade option available to them, us... if they choose not to deal with us then they leave the Melo situation up to blind faith that he'll agree to an extension by this July... are they willing to take that risk? IMO we need to present them with enough of a good offer to offset their concern about being made to look like fools in this trade & yet not completely cave in to all their extraneous demands for every single asset we own... i think a happy medium can easily be reached but both parties need to be willing to sacrifice a little & compromise.

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:We should be able to meet in the middle on this. More than our original offer, but not as much as the Nuggets are asking. This deal gets done IMO. The risks for both teams are too high not to find a way to make a good compromise. We came in too low and now they've come back too high. Just get the deal done already. We've got 3 games before the deadline and i'd like to see this deal done before the 3rd game against the Bucks.

this is how negotiations generally work... 1 side presents their lowball offer, the other side presents their extreme demands, & you try & meet somewhere in the middle... i have no doubt DW is gonna do what he can to get this deal done w/o having to gut the entire roster, but you need 2 to tango... if DEN isn't willing to be reasonable in this then the only thing we need to worry about is whether Dolan panics & agrees to giving up everything DEN wants to get the deal done, which is always a legitimate threat.

Funny thing is that even if we do "gut the Team" so to speak, I still think in the long run it would be worth it. People tend to understate how much impact great players have on teams. You just look at the Heat and if you take the 2 top guys off the team what do they have? So even if we don't have a super deep team right after the trade, that doesn't mean we won't be able to fill in the spots we need at some point in the offseason or later. I do know that you have ONE ELITE guy that's actually available for us to get right now and so if you end up having to overspend I think you have to do it. But still I think we'll be able to meet in the middle tho.

if the circumstances were different & DEN had other options open to them to deal Melo to then a much better case could be made to "gut the roster" to get an elite talent, but that isn't the case here... DEN has 1 real trade option available to them, us... if they choose not to deal with us then they leave the Melo situation up to blind faith that he'll agree to an extension by this July... are they willing to take that risk? IMO we need to present them with enough of a good offer to offset their concern about being made to look like fools in this trade & yet not completely cave in to all their extraneous demands for every single asset we own... i think a happy medium can easily be reached but both parties need to be willing to sacrifice a little & compromise.

Man I wish I could trust Melo in the offseason, but I get the feeling that this guy will cave when faced with the prospect of maybe not getting all his money. Maybe i'm wrong, but he's been giving me mixed signals and I don't fully trust him.

put urself in his shoes... he's a top 10 player in the NBA & has pretty much giftwrapped himself for the Knicks to make a move for him, & he's getting impatient to sign that extension with a lockout & new CBA looming in a few months... if the team you've pretty much made it obvious that you want to play for is still hesitant on trading for you because they're scared of losing someone like Landry Fields or Danilo Gallinari, do u think they value your services as much as u would hope they do? if we aren't at least willing to try & tailor our offer to try & meet SOME of the Nuggets' desired pieces & reach a happy middle ground, then we really don't deserve to have him to begin with if u ask me... an offer of Wilson, AR & Curry's expiring is a ridiculous lowball offer, i don't think anyone could blame DEN for turning that down... on the other hand if we're willing to go as high as giving them Gallo, Fields, Curry's expiring, Mozgov & a future #1, that will at least let DEN save a little face in these dealings & we still get the guy we covet while still holding onto 2 talented young pieces of our own... it's a win win scenario IMHO... no one feels taken advantage of & everyone's happy... except for the Melo haters who think he's 2nd tier but that changes after his first 40 pt statline in a Knicks uniform guaranteed.