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Dolan calls Kroenke for Melo deal?
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Knickoftime
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2/8/2011  1:30 PM
BRIGGS wrote:And if Denver wants Gallo Douglas Fields randolph and three picks?

Again, not the point. I am not arguing that theoretically a trade might be more costly than a free agent signing.

Only that the Knicks can get Anthony "free" in the off-season.

They cannot, so people should stop saying they can.
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martin
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2/8/2011  1:39 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:And if Denver wants Gallo Douglas Fields randolph and three picks?

Again, not the point. I am not arguing that theoretically a trade might be more costly than a free agent signing.

Only that the Knicks can get Anthony "free" in the off-season.

They cannot, so people should stop saying they can.

If Knicks trade Chandler for expiring/pick before deadline and move AR whenever, why wouldn't they be able to sign Melo for free?

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AnubisADL
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2/8/2011  1:45 PM
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:And if Denver wants Gallo Douglas Fields randolph and three picks?

Again, not the point. I am not arguing that theoretically a trade might be more costly than a free agent signing.

Only that the Knicks can get Anthony "free" in the off-season.

They cannot, so people should stop saying they can.

If Knicks trade Chandler for expiring/pick before deadline and move AR whenever, why wouldn't they be able to sign Melo for free?

We got 2010 cap space for "Free" too by those standards.

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crzymdups
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2/8/2011  1:48 PM
AnubisADL wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:And if Denver wants Gallo Douglas Fields randolph and three picks?

Again, not the point. I am not arguing that theoretically a trade might be more costly than a free agent signing.

Only that the Knicks can get Anthony "free" in the off-season.

They cannot, so people should stop saying they can.

If Knicks trade Chandler for expiring/pick before deadline and move AR whenever, why wouldn't they be able to sign Melo for free?

We got 2010 cap space for "Free" too by those standards.

oh, great it's the tired argument that jordan hill and a 2012 #1 pick were too much to give up to get Amar'e and Felton...

we don't hear much about that 2011 pick swap anymore, do we?

that trade keeps getting harder and harder to make a case against, huh? i'm sure jordan hill will pop any day now.

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nyk4ever
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2/8/2011  1:50 PM
for what it's worth:
francesa was talking about this to open the show and he says dolan has been involved in talks with kroenke for a year over melo, so any reports saying he's just getting involved now are completely false. he also said that denver hasn't settled on any package from the knicks and that the knicks have told the nuggets that "everyone except amar'e" is on the table.
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fishmike
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2/8/2011  1:53 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:And if Denver wants Gallo Douglas Fields randolph and three picks?

Again, not the point. I am not arguing that theoretically a trade might be more costly than a free agent signing.

Only that the Knicks can get Anthony "free" in the off-season.

They cannot, so people should stop saying they can.

they can:
amare 18.2
Felton 7.5
Turiaf 4.4
Gallo 4.2
Mos 2.6
AR 2.9
Douglas 1.15
Rautins 0.8
Fields 0.8
total 42.55

seems to me thats enough under the cap to max out Melo. Whats the issue? We have to renounce Chandler. Turiaf has a player option, but might think he's a MLE player and opt out looking for 4-5 years (very possible for a small team)

Pretty easy stuff

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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2/8/2011  1:55 PM
crzymdups wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:And if Denver wants Gallo Douglas Fields randolph and three picks?

Again, not the point. I am not arguing that theoretically a trade might be more costly than a free agent signing.

Only that the Knicks can get Anthony "free" in the off-season.

They cannot, so people should stop saying they can.

If Knicks trade Chandler for expiring/pick before deadline and move AR whenever, why wouldn't they be able to sign Melo for free?

We got 2010 cap space for "Free" too by those standards.

oh, great it's the tired argument that jordan hill and a 2012 #1 pick were too much to give up to get Amar'e and Felton...

we don't hear much about that 2011 pick swap anymore, do we?

that trade keeps getting harder and harder to make a case against, huh? i'm sure jordan hill will pop any day now.

when all else fails I guess... this is the same guy who wanted Arenas. I smell a man-up thread coming soon lol
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
ramtour420
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2/8/2011  3:38 PM
fishmike wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:And if Denver wants Gallo Douglas Fields randolph and three picks?

Again, not the point. I am not arguing that theoretically a trade might be more costly than a free agent signing.

Only that the Knicks can get Anthony "free" in the off-season.

They cannot, so people should stop saying they can.

If Knicks trade Chandler for expiring/pick before deadline and move AR whenever, why wouldn't they be able to sign Melo for free?

We got 2010 cap space for "Free" too by those standards.

oh, great it's the tired argument that jordan hill and a 2012 #1 pick were too much to give up to get Amar'e and Felton...

we don't hear much about that 2011 pick swap anymore, do we?

that trade keeps getting harder and harder to make a case against, huh? i'm sure jordan hill will pop any day now.

when all else fails I guess... this is the same guy who wanted Arenas. I smell a man-up thread coming soon lol

You would think so, but then again, this is Anubis we are talkin about here and he is so sure of himself that he concludes his statement with the "grinning teeth" smiley !!!

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Knickoftime
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2/8/2011  3:38 PM
fishmike wrote:they can:
amare 18.2
Felton 7.5
Turiaf 4.4
Gallo 4.2
Mos 2.6
AR 2.9
Douglas 1.15
Rautins 0.8
Fields 0.8
total 42.55

seems to me thats enough under the cap to max out Melo. Whats the issue? We have to renounce Chandler. Turiaf has a player option, but might think he's a MLE player and opt out looking for 4-5 years (very possible for a small team)

Pretty easy stuff

For one, your math is slightly off. It's more like $44.2m for those players. You discounted Mosgov's bonus money which is pro-rated into his cap figure, and you also forgot Walker, who as of July 2010 is now guaranteed for next season.

AND you forgot the Knicks 2011 draft pick ($1 to $1.5m salary slot)

So you're REALLY looking at around $45.2 to $45.7m or so.

And under this scenario, there is NO means to resign Shawne Williams unless he agrees to his minimum salary.

And regardless of the cap figure, Anthony will be eligible for an $18m first year salary as a free agent (no less than $105% of his current salary).

So unless the cap is over $63m, Knicks will be WELL short of giving Melo max money.

The bottom line, is 'Melo wants his real max, Knicks have to renounce Chandler, Williams AND find another $5m or so to dump.

Easy?

Maybe, maybe no.

Free?

No.
martin
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2/8/2011  3:53 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
fishmike wrote:they can:
amare 18.2
Felton 7.5
Turiaf 4.4
Gallo 4.2
Mos 2.6
AR 2.9
Douglas 1.15
Rautins 0.8
Fields 0.8
total 42.55

seems to me thats enough under the cap to max out Melo. Whats the issue? We have to renounce Chandler. Turiaf has a player option, but might think he's a MLE player and opt out looking for 4-5 years (very possible for a small team)

Pretty easy stuff

For one, your math is slightly off. It's more like $44.2m for those players. You discounted Mosgov's bonus money which is pro-rated into his cap figure, and you also forgot Walker, who as of July 2010 is now guaranteed for next season.

AND you forgot the Knicks 2011 draft pick ($1 to $1.5m salary slot)

So you're REALLY looking at around $45.2 to $45.7m or so.

And under this scenario, there is NO means to resign Shawne Williams unless he agrees to his minimum salary.

And regardless of the cap figure, Anthony will be eligible for an $18m first year salary as a free agent (no less than $105% of his current salary).

So unless the cap is over $63m, Knicks will be WELL short of giving Melo max money.

The bottom line, is 'Melo wants his real max, Knicks have to renounce Chandler, Williams AND find another $5m or so to dump.

Easy?

Maybe, maybe no.

Free?

No.

so your point is that say that without any player movement, the Knicks will not have $18M in cap space next year?

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crzymdups
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2/8/2011  3:55 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
fishmike wrote:they can:
amare 18.2
Felton 7.5
Turiaf 4.4
Gallo 4.2
Mos 2.6
AR 2.9
Douglas 1.15
Rautins 0.8
Fields 0.8
total 42.55

seems to me thats enough under the cap to max out Melo. Whats the issue? We have to renounce Chandler. Turiaf has a player option, but might think he's a MLE player and opt out looking for 4-5 years (very possible for a small team)

Pretty easy stuff

For one, your math is slightly off. It's more like $44.2m for those players. You discounted Mosgov's bonus money which is pro-rated into his cap figure, and you also forgot Walker, who as of July 2010 is now guaranteed for next season.

AND you forgot the Knicks 2011 draft pick ($1 to $1.5m salary slot)

So you're REALLY looking at around $45.2 to $45.7m or so.

And under this scenario, there is NO means to resign Shawne Williams unless he agrees to his minimum salary.

And regardless of the cap figure, Anthony will be eligible for an $18m first year salary as a free agent (no less than $105% of his current salary).

So unless the cap is over $63m, Knicks will be WELL short of giving Melo max money.

The bottom line, is 'Melo wants his real max, Knicks have to renounce Chandler, Williams AND find another $5m or so to dump.

Easy?

Maybe, maybe no.

Free?

No.

Pretty sure if the Knicks think they have a chance to sign Melo in Free Agency, they will trade AR for a first round pick at the draft. that frees up $2.9M. Rautins doesn't have a guaranteed deal. Mozgov doesn't have a guaranteed deal if it comes to that.

There are plenty of ways to get far enough under the cap to make Melo a max offer.

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martin
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2/8/2011  4:03 PM
Knickoftime wrote:You discounted Mosgov's bonus money which is pro-rated into his cap figure, and you also forgot Walker, who as of July 2010 is now guaranteed for next season.

I think teams can offer $0.5M for foreign players to help out of contract. Not sure that really effects salary cap, pro-rated or not.

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Knickoftime
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2/8/2011  5:57 PM
martin wrote:so your point is that say that without any player movement, the Knicks will not have $18M in cap space next year?

Correct.

Assuming a cap of $58m, more like $13m, assuming Chandler is renounced or traded for something that does not impact the cap.
Knickoftime
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2/8/2011  6:01 PM
crzymdups wrote:Pretty sure if the Knicks think they have a chance to sign Melo in Free Agency, they will trade AR for a first round pick at the draft. that frees up $2.9M. Rautins doesn't have a guaranteed deal. Mozgov doesn't have a guaranteed deal if it comes to that.

There are plenty of ways to get far enough under the cap to make Melo a max offer.

Mosgov's 2nd year IS guaranteed, for $3.3m. Even Alan Hahn, the originator of the '2nd and 3rd year are not guaranteed' info has acknowledged recently that the 2nd year is guaranteed.

But again, the point is NOT that the Knicks CAN't get 'Melo as a free agent, it's that they can get him for "free" as a free agent.

He will cost them assets, either which way he is acquired.
martin
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2/8/2011  6:11 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Pretty sure if the Knicks think they have a chance to sign Melo in Free Agency, they will trade AR for a first round pick at the draft. that frees up $2.9M. Rautins doesn't have a guaranteed deal. Mozgov doesn't have a guaranteed deal if it comes to that.

There are plenty of ways to get far enough under the cap to make Melo a max offer.

Mosgov's 2nd year IS guaranteed, for $3.3m. Even Alan Hahn, the originator of the '2nd and 3rd year are not guaranteed' info has acknowledged recently that the 2nd year is guaranteed.

But again, the point is NOT that the Knicks CAN't get 'Melo as a free agent, it's that they can get him for "free" as a free agent.

He will cost them assets, either which way he is acquired.

In the strict sense that Knicks don't have $18M, that's a fine, fine if not bland statement. Trades happen, player movement happens, that's the way of things.

Players also sign for less than the max-max too ala the 3 dudes down in MIA. So anything can happen.

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Papabear
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2/8/2011  8:18 PM
crzymdups wrote:dolan talks to kroenke and the next day the nuggets are talking to the lakers. nice work, dolan. you ****ing idiot.

Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
Lakers-Den in preliminary discussions of Melo 4 Bynum deal. early in talks, I don't think firm offer made yet. Minn-nyk-den still alive too

Papabear Says

Get your facts straight. Denver was already talking to the Lakers and many other teams just to stop Anthony from going to the Knicks. Dolan was right to call because he knows that Denver is playing games with us. They have it made up in their minds that they will take less to get Carmelo away from the Knicks. This isn't about picks anymore. Its personal.

Papabear
MSG3
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2/8/2011  8:23 PM
Papabear wrote:
crzymdups wrote:dolan talks to kroenke and the next day the nuggets are talking to the lakers. nice work, dolan. you ****ing idiot.

Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
Lakers-Den in preliminary discussions of Melo 4 Bynum deal. early in talks, I don't think firm offer made yet. Minn-nyk-den still alive too

Papabear Says

Get your facts straight. Denver was already talking to the Lakers and many other teams just to stop Anthony from going to the Knicks. Dolan was right to call because he knows that Denver is playing games with us. They have it made up in their minds that they will take less to get Carmelo away from the Knicks. This isn't about picks anymore. Its personal.

That would send a great message to any future potential Free Agents. An angry spiteful front office is a players dream.
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2/8/2011  10:58 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:so your point is that say that without any player movement, the Knicks will not have $18M in cap space next year?

Correct.

Assuming a cap of $58m, more like $13m, assuming Chandler is renounced or traded for something that does not impact the cap.

2014 1st round pick lottery protected +3mm in cash for Turiaf to another team bang--cap space is taken care of--you lost minimal.

RIP Crushalot😞
babyKnicks
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2/8/2011  11:12 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
martin wrote:so your point is that say that without any player movement, the Knicks will not have $18M in cap space next year?

Correct.

Assuming a cap of $58m, more like $13m, assuming Chandler is renounced or traded for something that does not impact the cap.

2014 1st round pick lottery protected +3mm in cash for Turiaf to another team bang--cap space is taken care of--you lost minimal.

Thanks.

Let's go Knicks. That's amare
Knickoftime
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2/8/2011  11:31 PM
BRIGGS wrote:2014 1st round pick lottery protected +3mm in cash for Turiaf to another team bang--cap space is taken care of--you lost minimal.

Chandler, Williams, Turiaf, protected 2014 draft pick (plus $1m more somewhere) is not "free".

Not sure why people keep responding as if I'm saying the Knicks can't create the space to sign Melo. I'm not and haven't and keep saying so.

All I'm saying signing him as a free agent will cost them no less than 3 current rotation players and maybe more.
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