Juice wrote:

TMS wrote:

Juice wrote:

TMS wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I think the point about losing confidence, giving up, feeling like it doesn't matter how hard you work can't be forgotten. This is a 21 year old kid. He is the youngest player on the team, he has put up great numbers in the past, he was a lottery pick and he is the last guy off the bench when the coach clears the bench. If you want to say he is immature that is fine and it is normal for most 21 year olds. However, what is he supposed to think when he is always the first to be yelled at and the coaches last choice. Even if he was extremely mature emotionally that is going to have an impact on him. As a coach you can't discard talented guys because they need more from you then other guys on the team. Randolph is a 21 year old lottery pick not a 24 year old second round pick or free agent. He was the cornerstone in a trade for the Knicks best player last year. He is the youngest guy on the team. He needs more from the coach and that should be recognized. Some of this is on the player but this isn't the first time D'Antoni has chosen not to deal with young first round picks and lottery picks since he has coached the Knicks.

well said & i completely agree.

Not to mention why does the coach's execution of roster often times not match the GM's assessment and expectation of talent? WU said he thought AR had probably the most upside of the 2008 draft, was he saying this for media filler? I doubt it! Was he saying this to up his trade value? I doubt it! yet AR got 10gms or thereabouts to get it together, that's a pretty short leash. And once you get out of favor with D'Antoni there's almost no coming back. I'd never want to play for this guy period not if I'm a young player.

it's hard to predict w/this coach cuz he didn't have a problem developing Amare who came in straight from HS & had maturity issues of his own to deal with at that age... if MDA can do it for Amare i don't see why he can't for AR, but why he's having such a problem getting through to this kid is anyone's guess... & the short leash can't be helping this kid's confidence level whatsoever... if anything it's making him press even harder to try to do something to impress this coach & his teammates anytime he can get on the floor, even in garbage time, which probably leads to him making even more mistakes than he normally would.

Actually Frank Johnson had already molded Amar'e into a legit young player before D'AnToni got a hold of him, most of his immaturity issues had been addressed. At least the on court issues as he had a taste of what it was like to play every game, regular minutes, in a competitive atmosphere 02-03 playoffs against the Spurs pushed them to 4-2. We want AR to be afforded half if not all of what I bolded here in New York. Amar'e was playing with Marbury and Joe Johnson prior to Pringles arrival.

that's actually a fair point u bring up... i wonder what kind of chance Amare would have gotten if he had played under MDA during his rookie season... dunno if he would have turned out any differently but it does make u wonder.

TMS wrote:

Juice wrote:

TMS wrote:

Juice wrote:

TMS wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I think the point about losing confidence, giving up, feeling like it doesn't matter how hard you work can't be forgotten. This is a 21 year old kid. He is the youngest player on the team, he has put up great numbers in the past, he was a lottery pick and he is the last guy off the bench when the coach clears the bench. If you want to say he is immature that is fine and it is normal for most 21 year olds. However, what is he supposed to think when he is always the first to be yelled at and the coaches last choice. Even if he was extremely mature emotionally that is going to have an impact on him. As a coach you can't discard talented guys because they need more from you then other guys on the team. Randolph is a 21 year old lottery pick not a 24 year old second round pick or free agent. He was the cornerstone in a trade for the Knicks best player last year. He is the youngest guy on the team. He needs more from the coach and that should be recognized. Some of this is on the player but this isn't the first time D'Antoni has chosen not to deal with young first round picks and lottery picks since he has coached the Knicks.

well said & i completely agree.

Not to mention why does the coach's execution of roster often times not match the GM's assessment and expectation of talent? WU said he thought AR had probably the most upside of the 2008 draft, was he saying this for media filler? I doubt it! Was he saying this to up his trade value? I doubt it! yet AR got 10gms or thereabouts to get it together, that's a pretty short leash. And once you get out of favor with D'Antoni there's almost no coming back. I'd never want to play for this guy period not if I'm a young player.

it's hard to predict w/this coach cuz he didn't have a problem developing Amare who came in straight from HS & had maturity issues of his own to deal with at that age... if MDA can do it for Amare i don't see why he can't for AR, but why he's having such a problem getting through to this kid is anyone's guess... & the short leash can't be helping this kid's confidence level whatsoever... if anything it's making him press even harder to try to do something to impress this coach & his teammates anytime he can get on the floor, even in garbage time, which probably leads to him making even more mistakes than he normally would.

Actually Frank Johnson had already molded Amar'e into a legit young player before D'AnToni got a hold of him, most of his immaturity issues had been addressed. At least the on court issues as he had a taste of what it was like to play every game, regular minutes, in a competitive atmosphere 02-03 playoffs against the Spurs pushed them to 4-2. We want AR to be afforded half if not all of what I bolded here in New York. Amar'e was playing with Marbury and Joe Johnson prior to Pringles arrival.

that's actually a fair point u bring up... i wonder what kind of chance Amare would have gotten if he had played under MDA during his rookie season... dunno if he would have turned out any differently but it does make u wonder.

I also forgot to mention playing with Shawn Marion too.

Matter of fact D'AnToni didn't get to him until 30gms into the 2003-2004 season...he got injured for about a month then D'AnToni proceeded to play him 40min/gm but that came with knowing they weren't going anywhere that season. That's like 120 games under his belt he already had an identity of what he could be by then.

nixluva wrote:Mike was an important assistant in 02, that's why he got the nod in 03 when they fired F. Johnson. I'm pretty sure that Amar'e spent quite a bit of time with Mike and Mike knew what he had in terms of talent. I think every player that plays for Mike gets the benefit of his teaching them how to exploit their gifts. It's not like he never tells them anything and they just go on their own. Sure Mike had a little to do with Amar'e development. How could he not?

No coach is perfect. Every single coach has strengths and weaknesses. Mike clearly has his, but you can still win a title with a coach if you give a good coach great talent. Just ask Doc Rivers about that. I think AR is not being victimized here. He's being coached. They're trying to teach him how to play NY Knick BB the way we play it now under MDA. IF that takes the rest of the season. I'd prefer to keep him here and develop him. It's STUPID to trade him if you think he can be a star. He's 21. Now if you think you can get a better players back by trading him by all means, but don't trade him for a guy that really has no chance to be the kind of player he can be.

just for the record, i really didn't post this thread so we could rehash all the same ol' MDA-lover vs. MDA-hater arguments... i'm just trying to get some feedback as to why a kid w/AR's talent & proven ability has become a 12th man off our bench & yet we're desperately searching for suitable role players to contribute... i value ur input on this thread just as much as anyone else's... it's always good to get both sides of the argument.

regarding the type of player AR can be, what do you project for this kid realistically? obviously you trade him if it means we're gettin back Melo... let's say for argument's sake, if we have to give up AR to get back Iggy, or OJ Mayo, or Ricky Rubio, or even Marcus Camby, do u do it or no?

TMS wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Ive watched a lot of Randolph--this is not the same player who put up those stats. He's not as explosive--his skills look like they are a level down(maybe becasue of inactivity?) and he doesn't play as hard.

how much do you contribute that to his loss of confidence & how much do you contribute to an actual regression in his basketball skills?

Definitely a loss of confidence thing, nothing more. I refuse to believe he's either hurt or forgot how to play basketball. No evidence to support such claims..

Finestrg wrote:Perfectly stated..I mean I can't add anything else to what TMS just said here..He's right on the money 1000%. I've been saying the same thing like a broken record for weeks now..D'Antoni has done a terrible job with this kid, bottom line. A kid with his type of skills, you figure out a way to utilize them and take advantage of them..You figure out a way to build this kid back up..I don't buy he's not ready for NBA action (TMS proved that point right off the bat in his first post), I don't buy he's hurt, I don't buy he's too young, I don't buy he's too thin, I don't buy he's not bringing it in practice (he's had his moments, Alan Hahn even said as much in the very same articles people try and use against him---plus assistant coach DD has said he's looked good at times), I don't buy he's too pouty or some kind of troublemaker (he's not) and I don't buy there would be some over resentment by a few players if he suddenly got time (bench players I might add--TMS just said it--who's gonna get mad? Bill Walker? Who cares..Turiaf? AR and Turiaf are friends from GS..Gun to his head, Turiaf knows this kid should be playing. Turiaf's all about team anyway..You think Amar'e would be upset if this kid started playing and contributing like everyone knows he damn well could? STAT would be extactic..Anyone that AR would come in and take time away from only has to look in the mirror as to why they lost their PT) ---> Sorry, none of this makes any sense to me at all. All of that focuses on nothing but negativity and accomplishes nothing..I'm sorry but if I'm D'Antoni all I would've concerned myself with right from the beginning are the positives, remaining positive even though growing pains and mistakes, and the possibilities concerning what he could be doing for me on regular basis..That's it..To be quite honest it makes me so upset that he's not allowed to play that I don't even care to discuss it anymore..Getting this kid some regular PT is the only thing that I'd consider acceptable. Until then, D'Antoni has failed this kid and failed the team and all of us fans in the process by not playing AR and maximizing his roster talent. Case closed.

what does the jury say you in the matter mda vs ar? your honor we find in favor of the defendant.

nixluva wrote:I actually hope we hold on to AR regardless. I'm not so hung up on this one season. I want this team to act like we've got time cuz we do. Who cares if we win a title 2 years from now so long as we win the title. I don't see a reason to give up on a kid with this much talent and potential when we'll likely not get much back for him and then have to watch him blossom somewhere else. I treat him like a rookie. I don't care that he's played a couple of NBA games. I say Donnie don't give in to the pressure. Keep the kid and continue to develop him. He's not hurting us by treating him as a long term project.

Who knows he might explode later in the season and be the answer to our problems. KEEP'EM!!!

Word. Happy that Walsh and MDA both agree the kid has got tons of talent.

Juice wrote:

TMS wrote:

Juice wrote:

TMS wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I think the point about losing confidence, giving up, feeling like it doesn't matter how hard you work can't be forgotten. This is a 21 year old kid. He is the youngest player on the team, he has put up great numbers in the past, he was a lottery pick and he is the last guy off the bench when the coach clears the bench. If you want to say he is immature that is fine and it is normal for most 21 year olds. However, what is he supposed to think when he is always the first to be yelled at and the coaches last choice. Even if he was extremely mature emotionally that is going to have an impact on him. As a coach you can't discard talented guys because they need more from you then other guys on the team. Randolph is a 21 year old lottery pick not a 24 year old second round pick or free agent. He was the cornerstone in a trade for the Knicks best player last year. He is the youngest guy on the team. He needs more from the coach and that should be recognized. Some of this is on the player but this isn't the first time D'Antoni has chosen not to deal with young first round picks and lottery picks since he has coached the Knicks.

well said & i completely agree.

Not to mention why does the coach's execution of roster often times not match the GM's assessment and expectation of talent? WU said he thought AR had probably the most upside of the 2008 draft, was he saying this for media filler? I doubt it! Was he saying this to up his trade value? I doubt it! yet AR got 10gms or thereabouts to get it together, that's a pretty short leash. And once you get out of favor with D'Antoni there's almost no coming back. I'd never want to play for this guy period not if I'm a young player.

it's hard to predict w/this coach cuz he didn't have a problem developing Amare who came in straight from HS & had maturity issues of his own to deal with at that age... if MDA can do it for Amare i don't see why he can't for AR, but why he's having such a problem getting through to this kid is anyone's guess... & the short leash can't be helping this kid's confidence level whatsoever... if anything it's making him press even harder to try to do something to impress this coach & his teammates anytime he can get on the floor, even in garbage time, which probably leads to him making even more mistakes than he normally would.

Actually Frank Johnson had already molded Amar'e into a legit young player before D'AnToni got a hold of him, most of his immaturity issues had been addressed. At least the on court issues as he had a taste of what it was like to play every game, regular minutes, in a competitive atmosphere 02-03 playoffs against the Spurs pushed them to 4-2. We want AR to be afforded half if not all of what I bolded here in New York. Amar'e was playing with Marbury and Joe Johnson prior to Pringles arrival.

Right on point. MDA is taking Frank Johnson's credit for Amare. He developed him and mold the player you see today. I have said this before and I will continue to say it. The ideal center for MDA will not be a legit center, it will be a make shift PF turned center. AR fits that bill as a PF who could be made into a make shift center but MDA is very badly misusing AR. If MDA woke up and gave AR good run and consistent run he will produce from a centers position.

iSergio wrote:Eddy Curry once averaged 19 and 7 and Chris Duhon once averaged 12 and 8. Bad players play well every now and then. But overall, they are bad players. Just like Anthony Randolph.

well then that begs the question, why the hell did we trade for AR to begin with? we used up our most valuable asset into this kid, shouldn't we at least see if he can contribute to what we're trying to do before we cast him off like yesterday's newspaper the way we did with Jordan Hill? i don't wanna see that kind of wasting of assets anymore... we don't have the luxury to be throwing away assets in this manner... we gotta get the absolute most out of every asset we own.

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

nixluva wrote:I actually hope we hold on to AR regardless. I'm not so hung up on this one season. I want this team to act like we've got time cuz we do. Who cares if we win a title 2 years from now so long as we win the title. I don't see a reason to give up on a kid with this much talent and potential when we'll likely not get much back for him and then have to watch him blossom somewhere else. I treat him like a rookie. I don't care that he's played a couple of NBA games. I say Donnie don't give in to the pressure. Keep the kid and continue to develop him. He's not hurting us by treating him as a long term project.

Who knows he might explode later in the season and be the answer to our problems. KEEP'EM!!!

Word. Happy that Walsh and MDA both agree the kid has got tons of talent.

how can you really tell me he values AR's talent to the extent you claim he does when his actions show different?