BRIGGS wrote:No team is going to match 3 players versus Miami--you need a deep physical talented team that can play many ways. If we take their 11 game winning streak--its 16+ differential--they're F good. What we did in the first half was also very good. We need a true 6th man another scoring big and a PG who can play pass first and hit a shot if needed(is douglas this guy--I dont think so) Im not basing this team on one half of basketball. I am basing it on what I have seen over the long haul--a team that is very good that lacks the quality bench and second big great teams have. We played a bad half--thats it. We know the bench needs enhancement. Trading away Gallo Chandler and fields for Carmelo makes 0 sense. You dont change the problem--in fact you might even make it worse.

MDA is not going to play the style of basketball that would take advantage of a big, physical team in the sense you're talking about, especially in crunchtime... you will see Amare at the 5 w/athletic wing players that can shoot the ball & run the floor... that's MDA's bread & butter & that's the style of ball you often see closing out games for us.

if u think trading for Melo makes 0 sense, that's your opinion (not sure why you keep assuming we'll have to give up all 3 of those guys to get him considering Melo holds all the leverage in these negotiations)... both JVG & Mark Jackson think we'd be nuts to think a Carmelo Anthony trade couldn't help this team get better... i think both those guys know a little something about basketball & about the NY Knicks.

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:that;s the thing... with Melo u don't have to project, he's already an elite scorer... there are no consistency questions when it comes to him offensively... he gets his points on a nightly basis... can Gallo turn into Dirk in a few years? maybe, but how likely is that? it's not redundant to add Melo if you're trading guys that play his position to get him... he represents a significant upgrade at the SF position... the logical strategy would be to fill the holes after u assemble the stars u want to build around, not the other way around... defensive role players are readily available in the NBA... star players like Melo are not.

don't get me wrong, i love Gallo & if we end up passing on Melo then rooting for a kid like that to do well in NY would be very easy to do, he's a very likable kid... but if u loved seeing Gallo taking it strong to the hole & trying to dunk the ball in traffic, u will love seeing Melo do the same... & Melo will actually GET the calls from the refs that Gallo won't... something like that can make all the difference at the end of games in crunchtime.

You HAVE to project, cause once you trade for Melo, you are exactly stuck with that team cause he caps you out. And what role playing Center is there out there for the MLE? And what backup PG and bench positions can we fill with LLE after that?

History has shown that title hungry veterans, always are willing to take pennies to compete. Melo, allows us the opportunity to compete and grease the wheels for those type of veterans to sign with the Knicks. As for role playing centers signing for the MLE, Tyson Chandler, Samuel Dalembert and Ben Wallace are just a few upcoming FA's that fit the bill of "title hungry veterans."

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:that;s the thing... with Melo u don't have to project, he's already an elite scorer... there are no consistency questions when it comes to him offensively... he gets his points on a nightly basis... can Gallo turn into Dirk in a few years? maybe, but how likely is that? it's not redundant to add Melo if you're trading guys that play his position to get him... he represents a significant upgrade at the SF position... the logical strategy would be to fill the holes after u assemble the stars u want to build around, not the other way around... defensive role players are readily available in the NBA... star players like Melo are not.

don't get me wrong, i love Gallo & if we end up passing on Melo then rooting for a kid like that to do well in NY would be very easy to do, he's a very likable kid... but if u loved seeing Gallo taking it strong to the hole & trying to dunk the ball in traffic, u will love seeing Melo do the same... & Melo will actually GET the calls from the refs that Gallo won't... something like that can make all the difference at the end of games in crunchtime.

You HAVE to project, cause once you trade for Melo, you are exactly stuck with that team cause he caps you out. And what role playing Center is there out there for the MLE? And what backup PG and bench positions can we fill with LLE after that?

Joel Pryzbilla is making MLE dollars... before he signed his last contract extension, Marcus Camby signed a MLE contract with POR i believe (could be wrong on that)... Amir Johnson is making MLE dollars... Zaza Pachulia is making MLE dollars... Kendrick Perkins is making MLE dollars... Joel Anthony & Eric Dampier are making a lot less than MLE dollars... Darko Milicic is making less than MLE dollars, not that MDA would ever play him anyway

i'm sure i can come up with a lot more of those types of players that are readily available every year in free agency.

& w/the LLE u can re-sign Shawne Williams, who i believe is a solid backup at the SF position... or u can use that to sign a guy like Carlos Arroyo as your backup PG or someone of that ilk... those types of players are available every year also.

to pass up on acquiring a star player like Melo because you're worried about filling role player slots on your team doesn't make sense to me.

Melo2NYK wrote:

Exactly and like I said, any half-talented dolt can make an uncontested layup when his man helps out on the penetrating man. That's not bad defense; that's called trying to contain the beast that is LeBron James(/Dwayne Wade). I'd say that Bosh had maybe 2-3 possessions where he scored by making a move (one of which included a reverse dunk on a drive against Amar'e) but the fact remains that he was rendered to mostly a jump shooter (11 shots outside the paint, where he hit only 4 or only 36% of them).

do you know how chris bosh plays? he is primarily a jump shooter.

again using your link this is what he did against the previous 5 games

against cleveland:

Field Goal Selection
Layups: 1-1
Jumpers: 4-14
Dunks: 1-1

against new orleans

Field Goal Selection
Layups: 1-1
Jumpers: 8-16
Dunks: 1-1

against sacramento

Field Goal Selection
Layups: 3-3
Jumpers: 3-10
Dunks: 0-0

against golden state

Field Goal Selection
Layups: 2-3
Jumpers: 5-11
Dunks: 0-0

against utah

Field Goal Selection
Layups: 3-6
Jumpers: 3-10
Dunks: 0-0

if you want to see more then go ahead. the knicks game is the outlier and for good reason.

btw, against the celtics we gave up 62 points in the paint.

BRIGGS wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:

FistOfOakley wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:
This is a hard discussion to have unless we're sitting next to one another and I can point out what I'm talking about specifically. Without that opportunity, this becomes a discourse of pure opinion but I will say that the commentators shared my opinion. Towards the end, when the game had already been won in the 4th, I saw alot of missed rotations but not so much before then.

ok well i'll agree with you on the first part but it's a regular pattern of us allowing a ridiculous amount of points to front court players. when you allow 46 points in the paint and allow your opponent to shoot 55% it's going to be difficult and i don't think melo would've improved us any one bit there.

on the offensive side of the ball, he MIGHT have helped but he would've needed a monumental effort to keep up with the heat. monumental meaning in the neighborhood of 40+ points.

again gallo played a fine game and we still lost by a huge margin.

And we usually win these games, regardless. The fact of the matter is that when you score as many points as we do, you'll also give up quite a bit as well. That isn't indicative of defense; that is more indicative of the pace/style you play.

Gallo played a nice game but he shouldn't be fooling anyone; the guy is a complimentary player when we need a star next to Amar'e. His fine game is the norm/below average of a guy like Melo.

Denver wants Fields Gallo Chandler and a pick--you want to pay that price--you're crazy dude. Wed be up ****s creek--over the cap and perilously thin. To build this team right--you need to add not subtract--look how thin we are now!! Also both Gallo and Chandler are guys who score 20 points almost every night. They are long athletic--thats not our weak area.

and both are arguably miss-used. when gallo is hot he does not get the ball enough. plus when gallo is hot it makes chandler being on the floor redundant. chandler to me is best at coming in to maintain a lead or help spark a comeback.. like nate did against us in the celtic game.

BRIGGS wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:No team is going to match 3 players versus Miami--you need a deep physical talented team that can play many ways. If we take their 11 game winning streak--its 16+ differential--they're F good. What we did in the first half was also very good. We need a true 6th man another scoring big and a PG who can play pass first and hit a shot if needed(is douglas this guy--I dont think so) Im not basing this team on one half of basketball. I am basing it on what I have seen over the long haul--a team that is very good that lacks the quality bench and second big great teams have. We played a bad half--thats it. We know the bench needs enhancement. Trading away Gallo Chandler and fields for Carmelo makes 0 sense. You dont change the problem--in fact you might even make it worse.

Again, I think you're having a conversation with yourself because I have yet to see anyone lobby to have Fields, Chandler and Gallo traded for Melo. Most people (including myself) and with reasonable cause, seem to think we can get Melo for pennies on the dollar because of his particular circumstances.

I will say that we do need an upgrade at point, off the bench but addressing that problem is like passing on Pau Gasol because you can't find a backup 2 guard for Kobe. I'm confident that we can add TJ Ford should the Pacers waive him. He fits our style and is a capable of being a starter.

If you think Denver is going to chuck its season for pennies on a dollar--you have no business sense. They can get a good deal in a S+T from the Knicks--right now the price has to be astronomical. They want those three guys a+ a pick--Id bet a lot on it.

And if you think I'm wrong, then you haven't been paying attention the past few seasons.

Baron Davis demands a trade. The Hornets get Speedy Claxton and Dale Davis for him. Far from equal value. Baron Davis goes on to lead the Warriors to their first playoff experience in years.

Vince Carter demands a trade. The Raptors get Alonzo Mourning (who immediately gets bought out), Aaron Williams, Eric Williams and 3 first round picks. Far from equal value. Vince Carter goes on to average 27ppg, 6rpg and 5apg for the season with the Nets.

Pau Gasol demands a trade. The Grizzlies get Kwame Brown, Aaron McKie, Javaris Crittenton, the rights to Marc Gasol (a throw in that the Grizzlies lucked out on) and 2 irrelevant first round picks. Far from equal value. Pau helps get the Lakers 2 rings and is considered by some today to be the best PF in the league.

Melo has demanded a trade. He will get traded for pennies of the dollar. The Knicks will be great for doing it. That is what history says and what is on my side.

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:that;s the thing... with Melo u don't have to project, he's already an elite scorer... there are no consistency questions when it comes to him offensively... he gets his points on a nightly basis... can Gallo turn into Dirk in a few years? maybe, but how likely is that? it's not redundant to add Melo if you're trading guys that play his position to get him... he represents a significant upgrade at the SF position... the logical strategy would be to fill the holes after u assemble the stars u want to build around, not the other way around... defensive role players are readily available in the NBA... star players like Melo are not.

don't get me wrong, i love Gallo & if we end up passing on Melo then rooting for a kid like that to do well in NY would be very easy to do, he's a very likable kid... but if u loved seeing Gallo taking it strong to the hole & trying to dunk the ball in traffic, u will love seeing Melo do the same... & Melo will actually GET the calls from the refs that Gallo won't... something like that can make all the difference at the end of games in crunchtime.

You HAVE to project, cause once you trade for Melo, you are exactly stuck with that team cause he caps you out. And what role playing Center is there out there for the MLE? And what backup PG and bench positions can we fill with LLE after that?

Joel Pryzbilla is making MLE dollars... before he signed his last contract extension, Marcus Camby signed a MLE contract with POR i believe (could be wrong on that)... Amir Johnson is making MLE dollars... Zaza Pachulia is making MLE dollars... Kendrick Perkins is making MLE dollars... Joel Anthony & Eric Dampier are making a lot less than MLE dollars... Darko Milicic is making less than MLE dollars, not that MDA would ever play him anyway

i'm sure i can come up with a lot more of those types of players that are readily available every year in free agency.

& w/the LLE u can re-sign Shawne Williams, who i believe is a solid backup at the SF position... or u can use that to sign a guy like Carlos Arroyo as your backup PG or someone of that ilk... those types of players are available every year also.

to pass up on acquiring a star player like Melo because you're worried about filling role player slots on your team doesn't make sense to me.

knicks should have a do-over when it comes to darko. darko my bad we didnt meant to lose you come back brother.

martin wrote:

Melo2NYK wrote:

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:that;s the thing... with Melo u don't have to project, he's already an elite scorer... there are no consistency questions when it comes to him offensively... he gets his points on a nightly basis... can Gallo turn into Dirk in a few years? maybe, but how likely is that? it's not redundant to add Melo if you're trading guys that play his position to get him... he represents a significant upgrade at the SF position... the logical strategy would be to fill the holes after u assemble the stars u want to build around, not the other way around... defensive role players are readily available in the NBA... star players like Melo are not.

don't get me wrong, i love Gallo & if we end up passing on Melo then rooting for a kid like that to do well in NY would be very easy to do, he's a very likable kid... but if u loved seeing Gallo taking it strong to the hole & trying to dunk the ball in traffic, u will love seeing Melo do the same... & Melo will actually GET the calls from the refs that Gallo won't... something like that can make all the difference at the end of games in crunchtime.

You HAVE to project, cause once you trade for Melo, you are exactly stuck with that team cause he caps you out. And what role playing Center is there out there for the MLE? And what backup PG and bench positions can we fill with LLE after that?

History has shown that title hungry veterans, always are willing to take pennies to compete. Melo, allows us the opportunity to compete and grease the wheels for those type of veterans to sign with the Knicks. As for role playing centers signing for the MLE, Tyson Chandler, Samuel Dalembert and Ben Wallace are just a few upcoming FA's that fit the bill of "title hungry veterans."

DUDE. dont embarrass yourself like that.

Tyson is making $12+M on a Dallas team that is going to resign him. PASS

Dalembert is making $12+M but is the lowest IQ center there ever could be. Worse than AR (although much buffer). PASS

Ben Wallace? Really? Cause he would fit in? And Detroit would be willing to trade him?

At least come up with likely players. Like Carl Landry.

The only one embarrassing himself is you because the next echelon of centers are all-stars, which we wouldn't be in a position to land anyway. I'm not sure why an all-star center would even be necessary considering that the league's best aside from the Magic all feature a role playing center similar to the players I listed (Perkins with the Celtics, Bynum with the Lakers, McDyess with the Spurs, etc.) Tyson Chandler is making $12 million this season but that doesn't mean anyone is going to be dumb enough to pay him that.

if he's hitting that midrange jumpshot he's the kind of guy that would turn us into a contender and i'm completely serious about that.