CrushAlot wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I think to be fair you have to give him credit for some of the success this year. However, I don't think you can excuse last year or deny that he did a horrible job with that team and the first round picks that were brought into that situation. I have been surprised and impressed that a guy who I see as extremely rigid in his philosophy and approach was on board with Fields and Mosgov playing right from the start. I think he even wants to play Rautins but Rautins just isn't good enough. Playing Williams was a nice surprise as well. I think he needs to get Randolph some minutes, maybe the ten minutes he was giving Mosgov earlier in the year. That would be the next step in his transformation in my eyes.

There is no evidence that D'Antoni will not play rookies(Douglas played 56 games last year and averaged close to 20 minutes per game. It's a myth that he did not play). Considering how quickly he put Mozgov/Landry in the line-up this year, is it possible that Landry/Mozgov work hard and have earned their minutes and Hill was doing something that prevented him from getting time? We don't know and will never know. But I'm guessing if Hill worked as hard as these guys he would have gotten a shot eventually. Again, we don't know. Maybe D'Antoni just hated his hair and decided not to play him.

When guys we want to see aren't playing we immediately point to the coach and say the coach has an agenda. We never think to ourselves "maybe the player isn't doing what he needs to do to get on the court". Both situations are possible(although the player scenario is 99% more likely) but because we aren't on the coaching staff or on the roster we will never know.

That is just wrong. Douglas had 26 dnp coaches decisions in the first 63 games. He didn't get significant minutes until Walsh traveled with the team in March on the Texas road trip. Walsh said he was evaluating players and the coaching staff on that trip. In the 37/63 games Toney got to play in up until the March road trip he averaged 13 minutes. D'Antoni did not do a good job with Hill or Douglas last year. He deserves credit for some of what is happening this year but he also deserves blame for what happened last year.

Crush, what type of playing time do normal late round picks get? Especially ones making transformation from SG to PG?

Also consider that TD was playing behind Duhon, Nate, Hughes.

Also consider that TD looked like caca during his first SL as a PG.

What did you really expect?

He was handled exactly as every team in the league handles young guys in similar situations. TD is still struggling this year and he's light years better then he was at the beginning of last year. What minutes was he supposed to get? The year before Gallo when he was not injured got minutes as well. Did he not count as a rookie? And now you have Mozgov given starters minutes when he looked good, and the minutes taken away when he struggled. Then you have Landry getting major minutes every night. This, "he doesn't play rookies" thing is a myth. It's not based on anything but it perpetuates for some reason.

Teams that are losing, lottery bound, and starting marginal vets that are not a part of their future often give first round picks a chance. He didn't just do this to Douglas, he did it to Hill as well. The fact that Douglas started getting over 30 minutes a game at game 64 when Walsh traveled with the team to evaluate both players and the coaching staff seems to be more than a coincidence.

Possibly. They also could have been on the same page all year long with how to use Douglas as well. Point is we don't know. Just like I don't criticize you for things that "seem" a certain way, I do the same for coaches adn players and GM's. Until I know for a fact what occured I am speculating and using tabloid talk just like the NY Post and Berman. All I know is the guy played 56 games and averaged 20 minutes a game. I know Gallo was put in the line-up immediately and was only restricted by his back. And I know that Mozgov and Fields were put in the starting line-up on opening day. You have Hill(who many have said wasn't workign hard) and speculation on Douglas' playing time. And yet, we are still to conclude taht D'Antoni doesn't play rookies for some reason.

Again, it "seems" like he does play rookies and that it depends on the circumstances and when he deems them to be ready. He doesn't just hand them minutes because they are young and "need to be developed"

And considering that, and knowing that TD is not really a facilitator of a PG, does it really make sense to play him all the time?

What you are asking for is a black and white scenario or a formula for minutes played for TD that is impossible to pinpoint and not really worth spending time on. At this point, who cares.

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:Crush, here is something else to consider: Donnie and MDA wanted to keep Lee's value as high as they could because they knew they had to trade him. And perhaps they also wanted to keep the #'s for Chandler and Gallo VERY high to show the likes of LeBron, Amare, Wade, Bosh, JJohnson that those 2 were value pieces to play next to.

And considering that, and knowing that TD is not really a facilitator of a PG, does it really make sense to play him all the time?

What you are asking for is a black and white scenario or a formula for minutes played for TD that is impossible to pinpoint and not really worth spending time on. At this point, who cares.

I think he deserved some minutes in every game. I agree with your points in your earlier post to some extent and I actually said initially that D'Antoni deserves credit for how is team is playing this year. My point was that he also deserves blame for how he handled things last year and I think his handling of Hill and Douglas stand out the most. On last years team I don't think Toney should get 26 dnps in the first 63 games. He has been much less rigid in his distribution of minutes this year.

let's get down to it: the last 2 years were cluster****s and who cares. What really mattered is that we got under the cap, had to not strike out on the Gallo pick (cause it was the only high one we had), and had to use the capspace wisely.

You are arguing about 1 guy who is not here and yet to separate himself from the other bigs on a losing Houston team and a #30 pick overall who still has yet to show that he can run the PG spot with ease.

AnubisADL wrote:

TheSage wrote:For a team that plays no D we lead the league in blocks, 10 th in opp to's, 12 in steals. i don't have the pts per possession figures. maybe D'A deserves some credit

Blocks != Defense

True that blocks alone do not constitute defense, but blocks accomplish the same goal that defense strives for which is preventing makes by the opposing team.

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:^ and then there are folks who feel the need to lay blame regarding much ado about nothing.

if u consider 2 horrible seasons of basketball nothing, then i guess you're right.

Bip and I just outlined a ton of very reasonable points as to why TD/Hill may not have played. If you have anything to add, please join the discussion.

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:^ and then there are folks who feel the need to lay blame regarding much ado about nothing.

if u consider 2 horrible seasons of basketball nothing, then i guess you're right.

Bip and I just outlined a ton of very reasonable points as to why TD/Hill may not have played. If you have anything to add, please join the discussion.

i've made my case enough times for both of you to know where i stand on this... don't feel i need to repeat myself on the same topic.

Great, then why bother coming to the thread?

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:^ and then there are folks who feel the need to lay blame regarding much ado about nothing.

if u consider 2 horrible seasons of basketball nothing, then i guess you're right.

Bip and I just outlined a ton of very reasonable points as to why TD/Hill may not have played. If you have anything to add, please join the discussion.

i've made my case enough times for both of you to know where i stand on this... don't feel i need to repeat myself on the same topic.

Great, then why bother coming to the thread?

sorry martin, i didn't realize i needed your permission to comment on something... next time i'll check with you first.

Didn't suggest that at all, but if you are saying that you are not going to discuss topic, why bother adding nothing.

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:Crush, here is something else to consider: Donnie and MDA wanted to keep Lee's value as high as they could because they knew they had to trade him. And perhaps they also wanted to keep the #'s for Chandler and Gallo VERY high to show the likes of LeBron, Amare, Wade, Bosh, JJohnson that those 2 were value pieces to play next to.

And considering that, and knowing that TD is not really a facilitator of a PG, does it really make sense to play him all the time?

What you are asking for is a black and white scenario or a formula for minutes played for TD that is impossible to pinpoint and not really worth spending time on. At this point, who cares.

I think he deserved some minutes in every game. I agree with your points in your earlier post to some extent and I actually said initially that D'Antoni deserves credit for how is team is playing this year. My point was that he also deserves blame for how he handled things last year and I think his handling of Hill and Douglas stand out the most. On last years team I don't think Toney should get 26 dnps in the first 63 games. He has been much less rigid in his distribution of minutes this year.

That's a different argument(and a more logical argument) then the "D'Antoni doesn't play rookies" tired and patently false argument. If you were coach you would have handled Hill and Douglas differently. That's fine, but remember it doesn't make you right and teh coach wrong especially not knowing the circumstance. Trust me I've had countless times where I've been criticized for a decision, called dumb etc. Then the person finds out what really happened behind closed doors and they come to the conclusion that they would have made the same decision if they were me. this is why I don't criticize for things I don't know.