Paladin55 wrote:

TMS wrote:

scoshin wrote:

TMS wrote:

scoshin wrote:

TMS wrote:

nyvector16 wrote:nice thinking... I forgot all about the MLE.
It might be a wiser decision to trade rather than sign outright.

Advantages of trade:
MLE
Keep Chandler
Dump Curry's worthless ass from the end of the bench

Sounds good. It would be a very bitter pill to swallow if we lost Gallo though.

If we could somehow pull a Curry, Azubuke, Douglas, Moz, Picks, Cash

there's also the LLE we could use as well if we went that route... i'm still not sure if that signing Wilson using his Bird Rights idea is allowed under the CBA, but like i said if it's feasible, then that is our best course of action by far of any i've heard during all these debates... we trade for Melo using Gallo, AR & Curry's expiring, it allows us to do this:

- re-sign Wilson this summer using his Bird Rights
- use the MLE to sign a defensive C to shore up our frontcourt
- use the LLE to re-sign Shawne Williams

unless i'm off here (& someone correct me if i am), all 3 of these moves we would NOT be able to do if we waited til the summer to sign Melo as a FA (we'd also have to renounce Wilson C as well)... we'd end up with this in 2011 after all those moves:

C - free agent C (MLE) / Turiaf / Mozgov
PF - Amare / Wilson
SF - Melo / Williams (LLE)
SG - Fields / Rautins
PG - Felton / Douglas

i can't imagine a more ideal scenario to play out than that... giving up Gallo would be a shame but to put that team together it's well worth it in my view... & AR is no big loss as he doesn't even have a role on this team as it is.

It is. The whole point of Bird Rights is to resign your own FA's regardless of cap. If we trade for Melo now, cap implications go out the window and we don't have to renounce Will to clear up any room. And we can sign him to whatever amount (or even just let the market dictate his price since he's a RFA)

but do you still also retain your MLE & LLE's as well if you sign a player using his Bird Rights Exception? that's the only part i'm not clear about. also, does the fact that Melo would be signing a contract extension the year prior have any impact on this or no?

Yup, MLE, LLE, and bi-annual exception are separate from bird rights. But the MLE, LLE, and bi-annual exception all take up cap space until renounced, which is why if we want to sign Melo, we have to renounce our rights to the MLE, etc. to get him.

so basically we'd be idiots if we didn't make a trade for Melo now (depending on what we're giving up obviously), cuz we'd in effect be losing out on Wilson's Bird Rights, the MLE & our LLE (i think that's the same as the bi-annual exception) if we waited to sign him in free agency.

if the trade off is Gallo & AR in exchange to get back Melo, the use of our MLE, LLE & Wilson's Bird Rights, i have no idea how anyone here could possibly be opposed to it.

My understanding is that Denver wants a #1 in a trade, and at least some columnists have talked about AR as the key to getting that #1, which means he can't be used in a trade to Denver. Chandler's contract may pose a problem to Denver (no?) which leaves Gallo and Fields. We would be foolish to do this, especially since there is no guarantee that Chandler will want to stay with us. Turiaf, who I would like to see remain on the team, has a player option next year- who knows what he will do if everyone is shipped off.

A worst case scenario leaves us with Amare and Melo with max-type contracts, Felton, Douglas, Mosguv, potentially Chandler, and whoever else we can scrounge together for a roster.

if it's Gallo, Fields & AR, then i agree i wouldn't do that trade... as for Turiaf leaving, i don't think there's any chance of that happening... he'll get in the truck, i'm confident of that... & there's no way we can lose Wilson C if the Knicks want to keep him because he's a RFA & have the ability to match any offer he gets... otherwise he can accept the QO & play out his contract in NY if he wants to leave after 2011... either way, we own his rights for next season as long as we don't renounce them to clear up cap space.

TMS wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

TMS wrote:so basically we'd be idiots if we didn't make a trade for Melo now (depending on what we're giving up obviously), cuz we'd in effect be losing out on Wilson's Bird Rights, the MLE & our LLE (i think that's the same as the bi-annual exception) if we waited to sign him in free agency.

if the trade off is Gallo & AR in exchange to get back Melo, the use of our MLE, LLE & Wilson's Bird Rights, i have no idea how anyone here could possibly be opposed to it.

This is what some of the Pro Melo people like myself said before the season. Getting Melo now means we have access to the MLE this summer. We also could also make other moves to acquire guys before the deadline. Waiting for Melo has put us in a holding pattern when it comes to certain trades.

AR and Gallo arent going to get us Melo with their current play though.

if Melo has given the Nuggets that ultimatum, then we can absolutely get him for Gallo & AR... otherwise DEN would get nothing if they refuse out of spite... they have no real choice in this matter... they can save face somewhat if they at least get back 2 young players with upside on rookie scale contracts... that's like getting the equivalent of 2 high 1st round picks for their franchise stud... better than CLE, TOR or PHO got back this past summer after losing their stars, no?

Denver is going to get picks regardless. Even with a new CBA the home team will likely be able to offer more years and money. So of course Melo will want the max $$$ and whoever get him will send those picks knowing they will be late first rounders anyway.

Remember at the end of the day this is business. The Nuggets are trying to sell tickets. Melo leaves and the Nuggets are irrelevant.

nixluva wrote:Even if Melo didn't actually say this, the writing is on the wall... This is the best destination for Melo. This is the team with youth a Stud bigman that can win games, a coach with a winning pedigree, his hometown, the biggest city with the most offcourt opportunities... This is obviously the only place for him to look to go to. NO way he doesn't make that clear to Denver soon, so this can get done. IT just makes sense.

Now it's up to DW to figure out a deal that won't strip the franchise. I think he'll stick to his guns this time. He's not in a position of weakness anymore. Now we're the team on the rise that everyone wants to be on.

im 99% with nixluva. i leave 1% for the lebron factor. we have been punked before.

TMS wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

TMS wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

TMS wrote:so basically we'd be idiots if we didn't make a trade for Melo now (depending on what we're giving up obviously), cuz we'd in effect be losing out on Wilson's Bird Rights, the MLE & our LLE (i think that's the same as the bi-annual exception) if we waited to sign him in free agency.

if the trade off is Gallo & AR in exchange to get back Melo, the use of our MLE, LLE & Wilson's Bird Rights, i have no idea how anyone here could possibly be opposed to it.

This is what some of the Pro Melo people like myself said before the season. Getting Melo now means we have access to the MLE this summer. We also could also make other moves to acquire guys before the deadline. Waiting for Melo has put us in a holding pattern when it comes to certain trades.

AR and Gallo arent going to get us Melo with their current play though.

if Melo has given the Nuggets that ultimatum, then we can absolutely get him for Gallo & AR... otherwise DEN would get nothing if they refuse out of spite... they have no real choice in this matter... they can save face somewhat if they at least get back 2 young players with upside on rookie scale contracts... that's like getting the equivalent of 2 high 1st round picks for their franchise stud... better than CLE, TOR or PHO got back this past summer after losing their stars, no?

Denver is going to get picks regardless. Even with a new CBA the home team will likely be able to offer more years and money. So of course Melo will want the max $$$ and whoever get him will send those picks knowing they will be late first rounders anyway.

Remember at the end of the day this is business. The Nuggets are trying to sell tickets. Melo leaves and the Nuggets are irrelevant.

Melo is already leaving... he's basically told the Nuggets to trade him now while they still can get something back for him or else he's leaving after the year's over... the Nuggets have no more cards left to play... they have to trade him.

They dont have to do anything. Paying Curry millions to sit on the bench isn't that enticing sorry. So what Carmelo leaves in the summer. Denver owns his bird rights.

Carmelo can sign a shorter deal with his new team if he doesnt want to work with Denver. I dont see Carmelo leaving a nickel on the table though. So Carmelo has to play nice to get max $$$.

I dont see Denver giving Carmelo away for other teams scraps UNLESS they can dump some salary in the process(Harrington).

cheers wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

TMS wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

TMS wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

TMS wrote:so basically we'd be idiots if we didn't make a trade for Melo now (depending on what we're giving up obviously), cuz we'd in effect be losing out on Wilson's Bird Rights, the MLE & our LLE (i think that's the same as the bi-annual exception) if we waited to sign him in free agency.

if the trade off is Gallo & AR in exchange to get back Melo, the use of our MLE, LLE & Wilson's Bird Rights, i have no idea how anyone here could possibly be opposed to it.

This is what some of the Pro Melo people like myself said before the season. Getting Melo now means we have access to the MLE this summer. We also could also make other moves to acquire guys before the deadline. Waiting for Melo has put us in a holding pattern when it comes to certain trades.

AR and Gallo arent going to get us Melo with their current play though.

if Melo has given the Nuggets that ultimatum, then we can absolutely get him for Gallo & AR... otherwise DEN would get nothing if they refuse out of spite... they have no real choice in this matter... they can save face somewhat if they at least get back 2 young players with upside on rookie scale contracts... that's like getting the equivalent of 2 high 1st round picks for their franchise stud... better than CLE, TOR or PHO got back this past summer after losing their stars, no?

Denver is going to get picks regardless. Even with a new CBA the home team will likely be able to offer more years and money. So of course Melo will want the max $$$ and whoever get him will send those picks knowing they will be late first rounders anyway.

Remember at the end of the day this is business. The Nuggets are trying to sell tickets. Melo leaves and the Nuggets are irrelevant.

Melo is already leaving... he's basically told the Nuggets to trade him now while they still can get something back for him or else he's leaving after the year's over... the Nuggets have no more cards left to play... they have to trade him.

They dont have to do anything. Paying Curry millions to sit on the bench isn't that enticing sorry. So what Carmelo leaves in the summer. Denver owns his bird rights.

Carmelo can sign a shorter deal with his new team if he doesnt want to work with Denver. I dont see Carmelo leaving a nickel on the table though. So Carmelo has to play nice to get max $$$.

I dont see Denver giving Carmelo away for other teams scraps UNLESS they can dump some salary in the process(Harrington).

that i agree, anything that goes counter to that, call b.s.

but by signing a shorter deal w/his new team, he would in effect be leaving big dollars on the table, no? i don't think that's a feasible scenario... it's either he gets traded to NY or he waits it out & signs w/us this summer... i don't see any other teams coming up with any worthy assets for a 3 month rental of Melo... DW has always liked Harrington so there's no telling what he would do in that scenario... regardless of the fact that Al & MDA didn't much get along in his time in NY, if the deciding factor in getting a Melo deal done were to be DW's willingness to take back Al Harrington's contract, i don't think he'd let it stand in his way at this point... of course, DEN would have to realize that the package of talent they'd be getting back in that scenario wouldn't be as good either.

TMS wrote:

cheers wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

TMS wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

TMS wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

TMS wrote:so basically we'd be idiots if we didn't make a trade for Melo now (depending on what we're giving up obviously), cuz we'd in effect be losing out on Wilson's Bird Rights, the MLE & our LLE (i think that's the same as the bi-annual exception) if we waited to sign him in free agency.

if the trade off is Gallo & AR in exchange to get back Melo, the use of our MLE, LLE & Wilson's Bird Rights, i have no idea how anyone here could possibly be opposed to it.

This is what some of the Pro Melo people like myself said before the season. Getting Melo now means we have access to the MLE this summer. We also could also make other moves to acquire guys before the deadline. Waiting for Melo has put us in a holding pattern when it comes to certain trades.

AR and Gallo arent going to get us Melo with their current play though.

if Melo has given the Nuggets that ultimatum, then we can absolutely get him for Gallo & AR... otherwise DEN would get nothing if they refuse out of spite... they have no real choice in this matter... they can save face somewhat if they at least get back 2 young players with upside on rookie scale contracts... that's like getting the equivalent of 2 high 1st round picks for their franchise stud... better than CLE, TOR or PHO got back this past summer after losing their stars, no?

Denver is going to get picks regardless. Even with a new CBA the home team will likely be able to offer more years and money. So of course Melo will want the max $$$ and whoever get him will send those picks knowing they will be late first rounders anyway.

Remember at the end of the day this is business. The Nuggets are trying to sell tickets. Melo leaves and the Nuggets are irrelevant.

Melo is already leaving... he's basically told the Nuggets to trade him now while they still can get something back for him or else he's leaving after the year's over... the Nuggets have no more cards left to play... they have to trade him.

They dont have to do anything. Paying Curry millions to sit on the bench isn't that enticing sorry. So what Carmelo leaves in the summer. Denver owns his bird rights.

Carmelo can sign a shorter deal with his new team if he doesnt want to work with Denver. I dont see Carmelo leaving a nickel on the table though. So Carmelo has to play nice to get max $$$.

I dont see Denver giving Carmelo away for other teams scraps UNLESS they can dump some salary in the process(Harrington).

that i agree, anything that goes counter to that, call b.s.

but by signing a shorter deal w/his new team, he would in effect be leaving big dollars on the table, no? i don't think that's a feasible scenario... it's either he gets traded to NY or he waits it out & signs w/us this summer... i don't see any other teams coming up with any worthy assets for a 3 month rental of Melo... DW has always liked Harrington so there's no telling what he would do in that scenario... regardless of the fact that Al & MDA didn't much get along in his time in NY, if the deciding factor in getting a Melo deal done were to be DW's willingness to take back Al Harrington's contract, i don't think he'd let it stand in his way at this point... of course, DEN would have to realize that the package of talent they'd be getting back in that scenario wouldn't be as good either.

be cool to have harrington back, when you think about it he could do enough off the bench to give amar'e time to catch his breath.

AnubisADL wrote:

TMS wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

TMS wrote:so basically we'd be idiots if we didn't make a trade for Melo now (depending on what we're giving up obviously), cuz we'd in effect be losing out on Wilson's Bird Rights, the MLE & our LLE (i think that's the same as the bi-annual exception) if we waited to sign him in free agency.

if the trade off is Gallo & AR in exchange to get back Melo, the use of our MLE, LLE & Wilson's Bird Rights, i have no idea how anyone here could possibly be opposed to it.

This is what some of the Pro Melo people like myself said before the season. Getting Melo now means we have access to the MLE this summer. We also could also make other moves to acquire guys before the deadline. Waiting for Melo has put us in a holding pattern when it comes to certain trades.

AR and Gallo arent going to get us Melo with their current play though.

if Melo has given the Nuggets that ultimatum, then we can absolutely get him for Gallo & AR... otherwise DEN would get nothing if they refuse out of spite... they have no real choice in this matter... they can save face somewhat if they at least get back 2 young players with upside on rookie scale contracts... that's like getting the equivalent of 2 high 1st round picks for their franchise stud... better than CLE, TOR or PHO got back this past summer after losing their stars, no?

Denver is going to get picks regardless. Even with a new CBA the home team will likely be able to offer more years and money. So of course Melo will want the max $$$ and whoever get him will send those picks knowing they will be late first rounders anyway.

Remember at the end of the day this is business. The Nuggets are trying to sell tickets. Melo leaves and the Nuggets are irrelevant.

Papabear Says

I wouldn't say that. Look how many years we went without a star.

TMS wrote:
but by signing a shorter deal w/his new team, he would in effect be leaving big dollars on the table, no? i don't think that's a feasible scenario... it's either he gets traded to NY or he waits it out & signs w/us this summer... i don't see any other teams coming up with any worthy assets for a 3 month rental of Melo... DW has always liked Harrington so there's no telling what he would do in that scenario... regardless of the fact that Al & MDA didn't much get along in his time in NY, if the deciding factor in getting a Melo deal done were to be DW's willingness to take back Al Harrington's contract, i don't think he'd let it stand in his way at this point... of course, DEN would have to realize that the package of talent they'd be getting back in that scenario wouldn't be as good either.

- He can sign with us in the summer through a S&T like Lebron and Bosh were. You think Miami wanted to give Cleveland and Toronto picks. Those picks were assets. Bosh and Lebron wanted that extra year so Miami had to send those picks.

- Gallo, Chandler, and Fields on a team with no superstar is a lottery team. Denver knows this.

AnubisADL wrote:

TMS wrote:
but by signing a shorter deal w/his new team, he would in effect be leaving big dollars on the table, no? i don't think that's a feasible scenario... it's either he gets traded to NY or he waits it out & signs w/us this summer... i don't see any other teams coming up with any worthy assets for a 3 month rental of Melo... DW has always liked Harrington so there's no telling what he would do in that scenario... regardless of the fact that Al & MDA didn't much get along in his time in NY, if the deciding factor in getting a Melo deal done were to be DW's willingness to take back Al Harrington's contract, i don't think he'd let it stand in his way at this point... of course, DEN would have to realize that the package of talent they'd be getting back in that scenario wouldn't be as good either.

- He can sign with us in the summer through a S&T like Lebron and Bosh were. You think Miami wanted to give Cleveland and Toronto picks. Those picks were assets. Bosh and Lebron wanted that extra year so Miami had to send those picks.

- Gallo, Chandler, and Fields on a team with no superstar is a lottery team. Denver knows this.

yeah but dude, by trading for him before the trade deadline, we eliminate any need to owe the Nuggets anything... Melo gets the contract he's after & the team he wants to play for, DEN gets their young players that pretty much equate to 1st round talent regardless... they can say they don't value our young talent all they want but i don't buy it for a second... they don't want to seem like they're hot after our young guys because they don't want to be bullied into dealing their franchise guy w/o looking at all their other options, but right now they HAVE no other options... that's the thing... it's either trade Melo to NY or lose him as a FA later... that's it.

TMS wrote:
yeah but dude, by trading for him before the trade deadline, we eliminate any need to owe the Nuggets anything... Melo gets the contract he's after & the team he wants to play for, DEN gets their young players that pretty much equate to 1st round talent regardless... they can say they don't value our young talent all they want but i don't buy it for a second... they don't want to seem like they're hot after our young guys because they don't want to be bullied into dealing their franchise guy w/o looking at all their other options, but right now they HAVE no other options... that's the thing... it's either trade Melo to NY or lose him as a FA later... that's it.

You assume they want our young players. Denver is going to collect their own lottery picks once Melo leaves. Low first round picks from the team getting Melo is just a consolation prize.

If Randolph and/or Gallo were tearing it up things would be different but they arent playing that impressive.

As I said before how is keeping Melo to the end of the season guaranteeing Denver gets nothing? Chicago gets exposed in the playoffs maybe they are willing to swap Noah for Carmelo. I cant predict the future and neither can the Knicks. This is why we dont have all the leverage.