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Anthony Randolph...
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martin
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12/7/2010  9:56 AM
cheers wrote:
fishmike wrote:
franco12 wrote:When everyone says Randolph is not putting in the effort, how exactly do we know this to be a fact? Are we basing it on what we see, in terms of him not playing?

2nd that... He's 21. I havent heard a negative peep. Maybe its because we are winning so his lack of contributions arent really noticed, but I think its just like Bip said. He's played in 107 NBA games (with an 18mpg average). He played one NCAA season (30games?). I just think he doesnt know how to play yet. Sure he can dribble, shoot and score but he doesnt know when to do what when there are 9 other guys on the floor.

Let him keep working and he will get his chance. Might not even be this year.

Personally I like the idea of a pipeline here and a 21 year old who has great upside but isnt ready to play yet.

i would agree if ar didn't look absolutely miserable riding the pine. everything looks rosy when you winning. i lol'd when mda started chandler over turiaf for the minny game, so i check knicks live chat-- knick staff said coach plan is to "slowly" work turiaf in. slow must be two minutes, cause after minny beasted from tip off, mda put turiaf in with a quickness.

when coach needs you he grabs you, doesnt matter how good you are but if he doesnt need you he doesnt grab you. its not that ar is not good, he just doesnt feel he needs ar right now. the problem again is the kid looks miserable. ar wont hurt the W column if coach just gave him spots minutes here and there. this game is a lot about confidence ar needs to see coach believes in him.

cheers wrote:ar has proven himself legit.

twice now. What has AR proven and why is he legit? That he can play minutes on a losing team? That he can score 40 in SL game?

what has he done in this league?

So far this season he has proven to me that he doesn't know where to be, when to shoot, where to pass and how not to hustle.

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Moonangie
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12/7/2010  10:03 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/7/2010  10:05 AM
Bippity10 wrote:Nothing hsppened to him. He's just on a very intelligent team oriented squad and his lack of experience and poor knowledge of the game really stands out right now. If he listens he has great mentors and could really start to blossom. For him toget time with his flaws he has to be a ball of energy and be noticeable just for being on the floor. He should be tripping over landry going for losoe balls. He can't be just another guy in terms of energy level wuth his current production

Well put, totally agree. And I also agree with BRIGGS that we let him simmer a while so he can absorb some flava from the vets in the stew.

Welcome, Mook. Keep it real.

Allanfan20
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12/7/2010  10:10 AM
cheers wrote:
fishmike wrote:
franco12 wrote:When everyone says Randolph is not putting in the effort, how exactly do we know this to be a fact? Are we basing it on what we see, in terms of him not playing?

2nd that... He's 21. I havent heard a negative peep. Maybe its because we are winning so his lack of contributions arent really noticed, but I think its just like Bip said. He's played in 107 NBA games (with an 18mpg average). He played one NCAA season (30games?). I just think he doesnt know how to play yet. Sure he can dribble, shoot and score but he doesnt know when to do what when there are 9 other guys on the floor.

Let him keep working and he will get his chance. Might not even be this year.

Personally I like the idea of a pipeline here and a 21 year old who has great upside but isnt ready to play yet.

i would agree if ar didn't look absolutely miserable riding the pine. everything looks rosy when you winning. i lol'd when mda started chandler over turiaf for the minny game, so i check knicks live chat-- knick staff said coach plan is to "slowly" work turiaf in. slow must be two minutes, cause after minny beasted from tip off, mda put turiaf in with a quickness.

when coach needs you he grabs you, doesnt matter how good you are but if he doesnt need you he doesnt grab you. its not that ar is not good, he just doesnt feel he needs ar right now. the problem again is the kid looks miserable. ar wont hurt the W column if coach just gave him spots minutes here and there. this game is a lot about confidence ar needs to see coach believes in him.

He looks miserable b/c that's what his face looks like.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Nalod
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12/7/2010  10:11 AM
He seems like he tries to just jump over people and it gets him in trouble. Maybe he has lost a bit of hop as he heals but what COULD be the "Problem" is our coaches might have taken him a part and he has yet to put it together.

Maybe for the first time they are teaching him to play basketball first and his instincts are rewired for now. HIs confidence is shot for now and why he is making so many mistakes.

Does this last forever? Not really. If he is a project and we are winning at the same time its going to be hard for him to get his minutes and be trusted.

This is a sign of progress on this team and the bar has been raised. The guys on the court making it happen have earned this right to play and those on the bench have to fit it in.

This is a big departure from the contract guys we had here the last few years who knew they were cap fodder.

Maybe we don't count on AR this year for a thing. Thats ok, thats whey we have a bench.

He'll do what the coaches want or he'll sit.

KNicks are no joke anymore.

cheers
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12/7/2010  10:12 AM
martin wrote:
cheers wrote:
fishmike wrote:
franco12 wrote:When everyone says Randolph is not putting in the effort, how exactly do we know this to be a fact? Are we basing it on what we see, in terms of him not playing?

2nd that... He's 21. I havent heard a negative peep. Maybe its because we are winning so his lack of contributions arent really noticed, but I think its just like Bip said. He's played in 107 NBA games (with an 18mpg average). He played one NCAA season (30games?). I just think he doesnt know how to play yet. Sure he can dribble, shoot and score but he doesnt know when to do what when there are 9 other guys on the floor.

Let him keep working and he will get his chance. Might not even be this year.

Personally I like the idea of a pipeline here and a 21 year old who has great upside but isnt ready to play yet.

i would agree if ar didn't look absolutely miserable riding the pine. everything looks rosy when you winning. i lol'd when mda started chandler over turiaf for the minny game, so i check knicks live chat-- knick staff said coach plan is to "slowly" work turiaf in. slow must be two minutes, cause after minny beasted from tip off, mda put turiaf in with a quickness.

when coach needs you he grabs you, doesnt matter how good you are but if he doesnt need you he doesnt grab you. its not that ar is not good, he just doesnt feel he needs ar right now. the problem again is the kid looks miserable. ar wont hurt the W column if coach just gave him spots minutes here and there. this game is a lot about confidence ar needs to see coach believes in him.

cheers wrote:ar has proven himself legit.

twice now. What has AR proven and why is he legit? That he can play minutes on a losing team? That he can score 40 in SL game?

what has he done in this league?

So far this season he has proven to me that he doesn't know where to be, when to shoot, where to pass and how not to hustle.

ar is wearing a knicks uniform as a direct result of what he proved on the court with the warriors, thats obvious, because the knicks traded for him. i am not arguing with coach's rotation, its winning. but mda does have a bug about him that he only grabs you when he needs you. these kids arent robots. it doesnt cost the team a W to give ar spot minutes, just to show hey man still got confidence in you.

Bippity10
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12/7/2010  10:31 AM
TMS wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
TMS wrote:i think Amare just needs to get in this kid's grille & challenge him to be the player he's got the talent to be... if he responds, great... if he doesn't, then he's not cut out for the spotlight in NY & we should probably trade his ass anyway.

You risk of really damaging this kid if Amare gets on his grill. AR just looks like he is very sensitive.

sometimes tough love is needed... can't keep coddling this kid... he needs to show some warrior spirit & man up if he wants to make it in NY... would also be nice to see him actually get some playing time at some point too... he can't show anything unless he gets a chance to do so.

If he can't hadnle Amare yelling at him, then he can't handle the Ny fans, media and the playoff pressure cooker.

I just hope that people will like me
martin
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12/7/2010  10:50 AM
cheers wrote:
martin wrote:
cheers wrote:
fishmike wrote:
franco12 wrote:When everyone says Randolph is not putting in the effort, how exactly do we know this to be a fact? Are we basing it on what we see, in terms of him not playing?

2nd that... He's 21. I havent heard a negative peep. Maybe its because we are winning so his lack of contributions arent really noticed, but I think its just like Bip said. He's played in 107 NBA games (with an 18mpg average). He played one NCAA season (30games?). I just think he doesnt know how to play yet. Sure he can dribble, shoot and score but he doesnt know when to do what when there are 9 other guys on the floor.

Let him keep working and he will get his chance. Might not even be this year.

Personally I like the idea of a pipeline here and a 21 year old who has great upside but isnt ready to play yet.

i would agree if ar didn't look absolutely miserable riding the pine. everything looks rosy when you winning. i lol'd when mda started chandler over turiaf for the minny game, so i check knicks live chat-- knick staff said coach plan is to "slowly" work turiaf in. slow must be two minutes, cause after minny beasted from tip off, mda put turiaf in with a quickness.

when coach needs you he grabs you, doesnt matter how good you are but if he doesnt need you he doesnt grab you. its not that ar is not good, he just doesnt feel he needs ar right now. the problem again is the kid looks miserable. ar wont hurt the W column if coach just gave him spots minutes here and there. this game is a lot about confidence ar needs to see coach believes in him.

cheers wrote:ar has proven himself legit.

twice now. What has AR proven and why is he legit? That he can play minutes on a losing team? That he can score 40 in SL game?

what has he done in this league?

So far this season he has proven to me that he doesn't know where to be, when to shoot, where to pass and how not to hustle.

ar is wearing a knicks uniform as a direct result of what he proved on the court with the warriors, thats obvious, because the knicks traded for him. i am not arguing with coach's rotation, its winning. but mda does have a bug about him that he only grabs you when he needs you. these kids arent robots. it doesnt cost the team a W to give ar spot minutes, just to show hey man still got confidence in you.

that's all good but you haven't answered either of my questions: What has AR proven and why is he legit?

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Bippity10
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12/7/2010  11:02 AM
fishmike wrote:
franco12 wrote:When everyone says Randolph is not putting in the effort, how exactly do we know this to be a fact? Are we basing it on what we see, in terms of him not playing?

2nd that... He's 21. I havent heard a negative peep. Maybe its because we are winning so his lack of contributions arent really noticed, but I think its just like Bip said. He's played in 107 NBA games (with an 18mpg average). He played one NCAA season (30games?). I just think he doesnt know how to play yet. Sure he can dribble, shoot and score but he doesnt know when to do what when there are 9 other guys on the floor.

Let him keep working and he will get his chance. Might not even be this year.

Personally I like the idea of a pipeline here and a 21 year old who has great upside but isnt ready to play yet.

I think Randolph is putting in an effort. I think he is working hard. But it's a 30 win effort. Same type of effort our guys were giving the last few years. These guys tried hard but they did not know what it took to win. AR is in a similar situation. He has the skills to play right away. He's horrible on the court. He's shooting 27% and not shining in any one area. For a young guy like this, you want to get him minutes but you also have to teach him. You have to teach him what winning effort really is. We are not expecting miracles from the guy. We just need production. He's not going to be a guy that wows us with his jumper, or his playmaking or his passing. So with that in mind he has to wow us with his energy like Landry and Shawne. He has to be noticeable. You can't just notice it when he is jacking up a crazy jumper or dribbling teh ball off his foot. We need to see him flying in for offensive rebounds. Flying across the lane to block shots. Even if he doesn't get it, this is the effort we need to see. He cannot be jogging up the court.

When Travis Knight was in college he was Calhoun's whipping boy. He wasn't producing early and getting screamed at every day. After a particularly embarrassing(in front of friends and family) screaming incident a reporter asked Calhoun, "if Travis is not producing and he seems to upset you on every play, why do you keep giving him minutes?" Calhoun replied "because I love the effort he gives".

We are trying to teach this to AR. If he learns he will be a beast. If he doesn't learn, we will have no use for him as our team gets better. Trust me on this one. We are playing at a high level, minutes will not be given as charity. You don't get minutes shooting 27% just because you are young and have potential. Just like Mason, you will need to earn time

I just hope that people will like me
Vmart
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12/7/2010  11:08 AM
Time to get AR into the games. Gets some production out of him. MDA is more disappointed in the defensive effort that AR gives. Wants him to be more focused on defense.
cheers
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12/7/2010  11:08 AM
martin wrote:
cheers wrote:
martin wrote:
cheers wrote:
fishmike wrote:
franco12 wrote:When everyone says Randolph is not putting in the effort, how exactly do we know this to be a fact? Are we basing it on what we see, in terms of him not playing?

2nd that... He's 21. I havent heard a negative peep. Maybe its because we are winning so his lack of contributions arent really noticed, but I think its just like Bip said. He's played in 107 NBA games (with an 18mpg average). He played one NCAA season (30games?). I just think he doesnt know how to play yet. Sure he can dribble, shoot and score but he doesnt know when to do what when there are 9 other guys on the floor.

Let him keep working and he will get his chance. Might not even be this year.

Personally I like the idea of a pipeline here and a 21 year old who has great upside but isnt ready to play yet.

i would agree if ar didn't look absolutely miserable riding the pine. everything looks rosy when you winning. i lol'd when mda started chandler over turiaf for the minny game, so i check knicks live chat-- knick staff said coach plan is to "slowly" work turiaf in. slow must be two minutes, cause after minny beasted from tip off, mda put turiaf in with a quickness.

when coach needs you he grabs you, doesnt matter how good you are but if he doesnt need you he doesnt grab you. its not that ar is not good, he just doesnt feel he needs ar right now. the problem again is the kid looks miserable. ar wont hurt the W column if coach just gave him spots minutes here and there. this game is a lot about confidence ar needs to see coach believes in him.

cheers wrote:ar has proven himself legit.

twice now. What has AR proven and why is he legit? That he can play minutes on a losing team? That he can score 40 in SL game?

what has he done in this league?

So far this season he has proven to me that he doesn't know where to be, when to shoot, where to pass and how not to hustle.

ar is wearing a knicks uniform as a direct result of what he proved on the court with the warriors, thats obvious, because the knicks traded for him. i am not arguing with coach's rotation, its winning. but mda does have a bug about him that he only grabs you when he needs you. these kids arent robots. it doesnt cost the team a W to give ar spot minutes, just to show hey man still got confidence in you.

that's all good but you haven't answered either of my questions: What has AR proven and why is he legit?

i did a superb job answering the question to the best of my abilities.

Bippity10
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12/7/2010  11:13 AM
cheers wrote:
fishmike wrote:
franco12 wrote:When everyone says Randolph is not putting in the effort, how exactly do we know this to be a fact? Are we basing it on what we see, in terms of him not playing?

2nd that... He's 21. I havent heard a negative peep. Maybe its because we are winning so his lack of contributions arent really noticed, but I think its just like Bip said. He's played in 107 NBA games (with an 18mpg average). He played one NCAA season (30games?). I just think he doesnt know how to play yet. Sure he can dribble, shoot and score but he doesnt know when to do what when there are 9 other guys on the floor.

Let him keep working and he will get his chance. Might not even be this year.

Personally I like the idea of a pipeline here and a 21 year old who has great upside but isnt ready to play yet.

i would agree if ar didn't look absolutely miserable riding the pine. everything looks rosy when you winning. i lol'd when mda started chandler over turiaf for the minny game, so i check knicks live chat-- knick staff said coach plan is to "slowly" work turiaf in. slow must be two minutes, cause after minny beasted from tip off, mda put turiaf in with a quickness.

when coach needs you he grabs you, doesnt matter how good you are but if he doesnt need you he doesnt grab you. its not that ar is not good, he just doesnt feel he needs ar right now. the problem again is the kid looks miserable. ar wont hurt the W column if coach just gave him spots minutes here and there. this game is a lot about confidence ar needs to see coach believes in him.

D'Antoni has said nothign but glowing things about AR. There should be no doubt that D'Antoni believes in his long-term potential. Doesn't mean you hand him minutes. The quickest way for a player to gain confidence is to earn something.

Let's say you started working for me and you sucked. You came to me for help because your confidence was in the dumper. My response was to give you more responsibility, more money and a pretty title. You would have more money but would your confidence go up? You still suck and now you have more responsibility which probably means more failure, and lower confidence. Let's say I do the reverse. I say I beleive in you. "Long-term I think you will be great, but right now it's not working.Let's take a step back. Let's break your job down into components and increase your responsibility as you get better in each area." You may go into the tank with that approach as well, but if you do, that just means the job isn't for you. But there is a solid chance you will see the small successes and build confidence from there.

Basketball is no different. I have coached the same way, and had a pretty good reputation for development. You don't want to throw a low confidence player to the wolves. This will destroy him if he continues to fail. It's better to see incremental success in practice, then spot minutes, then major minutes. This is how 90% of the players in this league develop. The guys that were handed minutes because they were young and talented end up like Eddie Curry and Steve Francis etc. Talented, but little knowledge of how to win.

I just hope that people will like me
TMS
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12/7/2010  11:14 AM
Bippity10 wrote:
TMS wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
TMS wrote:i think Amare just needs to get in this kid's grille & challenge him to be the player he's got the talent to be... if he responds, great... if he doesn't, then he's not cut out for the spotlight in NY & we should probably trade his ass anyway.

You risk of really damaging this kid if Amare gets on his grill. AR just looks like he is very sensitive.

sometimes tough love is needed... can't keep coddling this kid... he needs to show some warrior spirit & man up if he wants to make it in NY... would also be nice to see him actually get some playing time at some point too... he can't show anything unless he gets a chance to do so.

If he can't hadnle Amare yelling at him, then he can't handle the Ny fans, media and the playoff pressure cooker.

agreed... can't be afraid to get tough on this kid because you're afraid of hurting his feelings... if a guy like Shawne Williams can prove to be a valuable contributor off the bench after all of his past issues then there's no reason why AR can't do the same... he needs to man up & show MDA that he belongs in that rotation somehow... we're fighting for playoffs this year... there's no room for guys to be rewarded with playing time that don't deserve it anymore... every game can be pivotal to the season.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
NYKBocker
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12/7/2010  11:17 AM
TMS wrote:
Bippity10 wrote:
TMS wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
TMS wrote:i think Amare just needs to get in this kid's grille & challenge him to be the player he's got the talent to be... if he responds, great... if he doesn't, then he's not cut out for the spotlight in NY & we should probably trade his ass anyway.

You risk of really damaging this kid if Amare gets on his grill. AR just looks like he is very sensitive.

sometimes tough love is needed... can't keep coddling this kid... he needs to show some warrior spirit & man up if he wants to make it in NY... would also be nice to see him actually get some playing time at some point too... he can't show anything unless he gets a chance to do so.

If he can't hadnle Amare yelling at him, then he can't handle the Ny fans, media and the playoff pressure cooker.

agreed... can't be afraid to get tough on this kid because you're afraid of hurting his feelings... if a guy like Shawne Williams can prove to be a valuable contributor off the bench after all of his past issues then there's no reason why AR can't do the same... he needs to man up & show MDA that he belongs in that rotation somehow... we're fighting for playoffs this year... there's no room for guys to be rewarded with playing time that don't deserve it anymore... every game can be pivotal to the season.

I agree and unfortunately, AR will not get off the pine.

Allanfan20
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12/7/2010  11:23 AM
NYKBocker wrote:
TMS wrote:
Bippity10 wrote:
TMS wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
TMS wrote:i think Amare just needs to get in this kid's grille & challenge him to be the player he's got the talent to be... if he responds, great... if he doesn't, then he's not cut out for the spotlight in NY & we should probably trade his ass anyway.

You risk of really damaging this kid if Amare gets on his grill. AR just looks like he is very sensitive.

sometimes tough love is needed... can't keep coddling this kid... he needs to show some warrior spirit & man up if he wants to make it in NY... would also be nice to see him actually get some playing time at some point too... he can't show anything unless he gets a chance to do so.

If he can't hadnle Amare yelling at him, then he can't handle the Ny fans, media and the playoff pressure cooker.

agreed... can't be afraid to get tough on this kid because you're afraid of hurting his feelings... if a guy like Shawne Williams can prove to be a valuable contributor off the bench after all of his past issues then there's no reason why AR can't do the same... he needs to man up & show MDA that he belongs in that rotation somehow... we're fighting for playoffs this year... there's no room for guys to be rewarded with playing time that don't deserve it anymore... every game can be pivotal to the season.

I agree and unfortunately, AR will not get off the pine.

That's definitely your opinion and not a fact. He may or may not. Like I said though, MDA doesn't disfavor rookies and young players. He favors players who are playing well, plain and simple. Therefore, if someone is hurt or starts playing like crap with little effort, and AR is up to standards in practice suddenly, guess who's going to play without hesitation?

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
cheers
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12/7/2010  11:26 AM
@bip-- mda and toney have same hitch, horse blinders. that doesnt mean i want toney losing minutes or mda losing hair. just take 'em off from time to time and see what is around you.

TMS
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12/7/2010  11:31 AM
NYKBocker wrote:
TMS wrote:
Bippity10 wrote:
TMS wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
TMS wrote:i think Amare just needs to get in this kid's grille & challenge him to be the player he's got the talent to be... if he responds, great... if he doesn't, then he's not cut out for the spotlight in NY & we should probably trade his ass anyway.

You risk of really damaging this kid if Amare gets on his grill. AR just looks like he is very sensitive.

sometimes tough love is needed... can't keep coddling this kid... he needs to show some warrior spirit & man up if he wants to make it in NY... would also be nice to see him actually get some playing time at some point too... he can't show anything unless he gets a chance to do so.

If he can't hadnle Amare yelling at him, then he can't handle the Ny fans, media and the playoff pressure cooker.

agreed... can't be afraid to get tough on this kid because you're afraid of hurting his feelings... if a guy like Shawne Williams can prove to be a valuable contributor off the bench after all of his past issues then there's no reason why AR can't do the same... he needs to man up & show MDA that he belongs in that rotation somehow... we're fighting for playoffs this year... there's no room for guys to be rewarded with playing time that don't deserve it anymore... every game can be pivotal to the season.

I agree and unfortunately, AR will not get off the pine.

at this point i really wish we had just gotten a 1st round pick from GS instead of AR in that trade package for D Lee... at least then we'd have a trade asset w/no diminishing value... so far this season neither AR nor Buike have contributed squat... the more AR won't get off the pine, the more his trade value goes in the dumper... it's a shameful waste of an asset but what can be done about it at this point but to hope that AR gets angry & channels it in the right way instead of going into a shell & shutting himself down.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Papabear
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12/7/2010  12:00 PM
Papabear Says

AR needs to just practice hard and stay in condition so when his number is called he will be ready. Bang the boards and defend well. don't worry about scoring just focus on defence and he will get playing time then the shots and points will came.

Papabear
Bippity10
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12/7/2010  12:17 PM
cheers wrote:@bip-- mda and toney have same hitch, horse blinders. that doesnt mean i want toney losing minutes or mda losing hair. just take 'em off from time to time and see what is around you.

I have no idea waht this means

I just hope that people will like me
cheers
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12/7/2010  12:19 PM
Bippity10 wrote:
cheers wrote:@bip-- mda and toney have same hitch, horse blinders. that doesnt mean i want toney losing minutes or mda losing hair. just take 'em off from time to time and see what is around you.

I have no idea waht this means

means its mda's job to see more than what he is seeing. same with toney, doing great, but its your job to see chandler at the wing. its mda's job to see he needs to give ar spot minutes.

Panos
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12/7/2010  12:20 PM
Bippity10 wrote:
cheers wrote:@bip-- mda and toney have same hitch, horse blinders. that doesnt mean i want toney losing minutes or mda losing hair. just take 'em off from time to time and see what is around you.

I have no idea waht this means

Why does wearing a bra on his head help him focus? I mean not that there's anything wrong with it.

Anthony Randolph...

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