GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

TMS wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:

TMS wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:We're a .500 team without adding any other all star.

i'd say we're above 500 w/o adding another star. knicks are 9-9 right now and gallinari and chandler have both been inconsistent. i would anticipate both will improve as the year goes on. chemistry will improve as well. plus randolph is still on the bench not giving anything. this team will finish something like 43-39 without another trade, which would likely put them at top 6 in the east.

i agree with briggs, carmelo is not whats needed. gallinari is younger and cheaper and his skills complement amare way more.

LOL @ Anubis, Gallo hasn't impressed you so far? Did you watch the games @ GS, @ LAC, or against the pistons? Gallo had HUGE game-breaking 3s in each of those. those 3 games are losses without him stepping up and burying tough 3s. that's pretty impressive in my opinion. his consistency hasn't been there but he has proven he can score and score when it counts.

i think chandler is the movable piece here. he's a 3/4 and the knicks have a 3 (gallo) and a 4 (stat). we need a true C who can play next to amare and allow turiaf to come off the bench. who that guy is i'm not sure, but it sure as hell isn't melo.

right now if u gave me a choice whether to trade Gallo or Wilson, i'd rather keep Wilson... Wilson will be traded because of his contract situation i think that's fair to assume, but he's also a better player than Gallo is right now.

last night we saw Gallo hit a huge 3 in the 2nd OT that helped to win the game... we also saw him almost single handedly lose the game w/his crappy defense on Tayshaun Prince & his inability to hit open J's... MDA stuck w/him through 2 OT's of him playing like his head was not in the game & luckily it paid off in the end, but it could have easily cost us a W last night... he has been highly inconsistent all year & tho i've always been a huge supporter of his, in general i've been disappointed by his play this season... to say we don't need Carmelo on this team is pretty silly if u ask me... he would provide a huge upgrade at the SF position

LOL,,,i mean,,,,melo's D is nothing to write home to mom about. gallo is cheaper and younger, and arguably plays harder. melo is great but if it takes giving up 3 pieces to get him i don't understand how we're a better team. if he's a free agent and knicks have room to sign him, i think they should. but to give up a bunch to get him when this team is clearly a playoff team in the east and when the knicks have all the leverage is stupid.

no, Melo's D is definitely nothing to write home about, but his offensive skillset represents a huge upgrade at the SF position... & i'm not going to assume Melo's signing here in free agency & make the same mistake we did with Lebron & D Wade... you may think it's stupid to trade away a package of assets to get him but IMO it's stupid to pass up on a chance to get him because we're too afraid to trade pieces like Gallo, AR or Wilson Chandler.

TMS..the diff. between the Lebron/Wade sweepstakes and the Melo situation is that he seems like he really, really want to play here.

Also as it stands right now..it doesn't look like the Knicks have any shot at trading for him unless Denver proposes something. So far it looks like they're still trying to keep Melo. For now, regardless of whether anyone thinks it's better to trade for him or sign him as an FA, doesn't it look to you like the latter is the only option available to the Knicks right now?

before last summer it seemed like Lebron really, really wanted to play here too... i'm just not buying into these athletes & their hype generating campaigns anymore.

i dunno what it would take for the Knicks to trade for Melo or if Denver is even interested in doing so... the only point i'm making is that to say you don't want or need a guy like Melo on this team because you're too afraid to give up pieces like Gallo, AR or Wilson Chandler, is ridiculous to me... but yeah, we may have no other choice but to wait til the summer to see if Melo wants to sign here.

scoshin wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:We NEED Carmelo. This team is stuck in purgatory at the moment.

Not good enough to go deep in the playoffs and not bad enough to get a high lottery pick.

Amare needs help to for us to get to the next level.

Nope--what we need is another big who can score and more efficient play from the bench. I like the starting 5 from yetsrday--would not change that. But adding a third big who can score and getting the old azu back would make this team a title contender right now. Felton and Amare are ball dominant players. If we added a third and started removing pieces--we could easily become Miami of the north.

We're not just a big away from a title contender...that's ridiculous. And Felton and Amare did not dominate the ball on their previous teams yet still excelled. Adding a go-to #1 option like Melo would only help the team, as well as opening it up for Felton/Amare, and likely put us in top 4 in the East. If we give up too much in a Melo trade, that'd be a different story, since depth is one of our best strengths on this team. But for a reasonable package, we should still be looking to trade for Melo.

As long as we got to keep either Fields or Chandler in a Anthony trade, I think you have to go for it. Anthony is a top-10 player than can carry a team. You put him with Amare and this team will be fairly hard to deal with. Moreover, Amare is best as a finisher, so adding an Anthony should not take away from Amare's game. Felton, Fields/Chandler, Anthony, Amare, and Mos/Turiaf would be a contending team. I would offer Gallo and Chandler in a trade for Anthony and keep Fields as a glue guy.

People seem to be scared that Melo + Amare just won't be enough to be an elite team. Plus we won't be able to have 50,000 threads speculating about adding Chris Paul or some other superstar if we only have cap space for role players.

I'm gonna enjoy watching what this current team does and see what happens at the trade deadline and during the next offseason. Not sure if any two star combination other than Shaq + Kobe = guaranteed championship but Amare + Melo is gonna be a lot of fun to watch if it happens. Maybe the damn Pick n Roll will be easier to run without teams triple teaming Amare when he gets into the paint.

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:I haven't taken a hard look at the #s but if we sign Melo, is it safe to assume that we are pretty much locked into whatever the roster looks like with Melo on the Knicks whether he comes via trade or free agency?

People seem to be scared that Melo + Amare just won't be enough to be an elite team. Plus we won't be able to have 50,000 threads speculating about adding Chris Paul or some other superstar if we only have cap space for role players.

I'm gonna enjoy watching what this current team does and see what happens at the trade deadline and during the next offseason. Not sure if any two star combination other than Shaq + Kobe = guaranteed championship but Amare + Melo is gonna be a lot of fun to watch if it happens. Maybe the damn Pick n Roll will be easier to run without teams triple teaming Amare when he gets into the paint.

To clear enough space for Melo, we have to renounce/dump:

Chandler
Azubuike
Turiaf (will have to be moved -- or we could renounce Gallo's rookie option, but that would be stupid)

Moreover, we might have to trade away our 2011 pick depending on how tight the cap #'s are. Moreover, we have to renounce our rights to the MLE.

So in reality, we're still giving up some depth by waiting till the summer to sign Melo. If we can get a trade done for Melo with a Gallinari/AR package, we shouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger, even if it includes more throw-ins like Douglas or Walker. Gallo would have no defined role or position with Melo on the team, and AR is pretty expendable. Once Melo is on board, cap implications go out the window, and we can look to resign Chandler, Azubuike, keep Turiaf, and use our MLE/2011 draft pick on a backup PG + center.

scoshin wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:I haven't taken a hard look at the #s but if we sign Melo, is it safe to assume that we are pretty much locked into whatever the roster looks like with Melo on the Knicks whether he comes via trade or free agency?

People seem to be scared that Melo + Amare just won't be enough to be an elite team. Plus we won't be able to have 50,000 threads speculating about adding Chris Paul or some other superstar if we only have cap space for role players.

I'm gonna enjoy watching what this current team does and see what happens at the trade deadline and during the next offseason. Not sure if any two star combination other than Shaq + Kobe = guaranteed championship but Amare + Melo is gonna be a lot of fun to watch if it happens. Maybe the damn Pick n Roll will be easier to run without teams triple teaming Amare when he gets into the paint.

To clear enough space for Melo, we have to renounce/dump:

Chandler
Azubuike
Turiaf (will have to be moved -- or we could renounce Gallo's rookie option, but that would be stupid)

Moreover, we might have to trade away our 2011 pick depending on how tight the cap #'s are. Moreover, we have to renounce our rights to the MLE.

So in reality, we're still giving up some depth by waiting till the summer to sign Melo. If we can get a trade done for Melo with a Gallinari/AR package, we shouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger, even if it includes more throw-ins like Douglas or Walker. Gallo would have no defined role or position with Melo on the team, and AR is pretty expendable. Once Melo is on board, cap implications go out the window, and we can look to resign Chandler, Azubuike, keep Turiaf, and use our MLE/2011 draft pick on a backup PG + center.

To sum it up you're saying that trading for Melo allows us to sign him and then go over the cap to retain our own players.

Whereas we can't sign him as FA without renouncing players XYZ?

Seems like everyone is in agreement that we need a true backup PG (maybe we can get around this by running the offense through Gallo when Felton is off the court) and a quality role player in the frontcourt.

smackeddog wrote:Aside from John Thompson, what other PF-C are there out there that might be a good fit and that are obtainable? Also can anyone think of any obtainable back up PG's?

FA 6'11" C Dwayne Jones -- dominated the glass in the D-League last year, in the vicinity of 16 a game . There's a rumor that ARIS Greece is interested -- if I were Donnie I'd grab him right now on the cheap before somebody else does.

FA 6'10" PF/C Josh Boone -- had a nice career at U-Conn doing the dirty work. Also showed he can play at the NBA level while with the Nets. Not sure where he is right now but we could use him. If he's in shape I say bring him in..Very Ronny Turiaf-like, even better rebounder. I think he'd be great here for what we need.

DL PF/C 6'9" Vernon Goodridge -- know nothing about him except for the positive write-ups and video clips we've seen recently. I know the Knicks like him though and after the Landry Fields pick, I'm wide open to giving him a shot here if they think he'd be worth it.

DL PF/C 6'11" Chris Johnson -- former LSU Tiger is finally realizing some of his potential in the NBDL for the Dakota Wizards. Rail-thin listed at only 210 lbs. (up from his college days though where he played at under 200 lbs.) but still putting up very good numbers so far in the D-League: 21/8/2.8 bpg

DL PF/C 6'11" Nick Fazekas -- a little thin and not the most athletic guy I've ever seen but the bottom line is he's got nice size, he can score the basketball (very nice jumpshooter with solid range, can also score the ball in the post) and he's always excelled as a rebounder wherever he's been. 10-day contract? Why the hell not? 1st player selected in the NBDL draft recently.

DL C 6'11" Courtney Sims -- had a cup of coffee a couple of years ago with us toward the end of the year and never played. He's put up very good numbers every year in the D-League and this year is no exception: 19.4 ppg/almost 10 rpg on almost 70% from the field. Has a very nice touch. A pretty smooth offensive player. Good FT shooter too. He's actually got some nice skills for a guy that tall, skills that Mike should be able to put to good use in a backup role.

DL C 6'11" Mickell Gladness -- he's thin and a bit raw but he might be able to help us out in the rebounding & shot-blocking departments.

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If it were up to me, one of these affordable, low risk/high reward guys would be in uniform tommorrow night against the Nets. I honestly have no idea what we're waiting for. Turiaf's hurt, we need another big ASAP. Cut this Mason Jr. already and get one of these guys in here..And I like the idea of trying out one or some of these guys first before trading all-important chips away for a guy like Jason Thompson. Jason Thompson's nice, would love to have him and I agree that he could help us --- I just question a couple of things: (1) how much better does he really make us, (2) what would be the Kings' asking price and if it's relatively steep which I think it would be (3) is it worth it to surrender 2 or 3 total assets to Sacramento to get him (whether it be AR and a pick(s), AR & TD, AR & Fields, AR & Chandler, multiple picks, Gallo?? --- who even says Sac would want AR btw? We're assuming that--they may feel they already have better forward/centers)--assets that we could use for Carmelo Anthony, a much better player than Jason Thompson..Melo is a STAR, JT is a serviceable young big--huge difference..Acquiring JT for multiple assets that would take us right out of the Melo sweepstakes is not a position I wanna see Donnie put us in right now. I'd rather save those chips for Melo or another star and in the meantime make a smart, low-cost move for one of the guys above for immediate frontcourt depth.

Finestrg wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Aside from John Thompson, what other PF-C are there out there that might be a good fit and that are obtainable? Also can anyone think of any obtainable back up PG's?

FA 6'11" C Dwayne Jones -- dominated the glass in the D-League last year, in the vicinity of 16 a game . There's a rumor that ARIS Greece is interested -- I'd grab him right now if I were Donnie.

FA 6'10" PF/C Josh Boone -- had a nice career at U-Conn doing the dirty work. Also showed he can play at the NBA level while with the Nets. Not sure where he is right now but we could use him. If he's in shape I say bring him in..Very Ronny Turiaf-like, even better rebounder. I think he'd be great here for what we need.

DL PF/C 6'9" Vernon Goodridge -- know nothing about him except for the positive write-ups and video clips we've seen recently. I know the Knicks like him though and after the Landry Fields pick, I'm wide open to giving him a shot here if they think he'd be worth it.

DL PF/C 6'11" Chris Johnson -- former LSU Tiger is finally realizing some of his potential in the NBDL for the Dakota Wizards. Rail-thin listed at only 210 lbs. (up from his college days though where he played at under 200 lbs.) but still putting up very good numbers so far in the D-League: 21/8/2.8 bpg

DL PF/C 6'11" Nick Fazekas -- a little thin and not the most athletic guy I've ever seen but the bottom line is he's got nice size, he can score the basketball (very nice jumpshooter with solid range, can also score the ball in the post) and he's always excelled as a rebounder wherever he's been. 10-day contract? Why the hell not? 1st player selected in the NBDL draft recently.

DL C 6'11" Courtney Sims -- had a cup of coffee a couple of years ago with us toward the end of the year and never played. He's put up very good numbers every year in the D-League and this year is no exception: 19.4 ppg/almost 10 rpg on almost 70% from the field. Has a very nice touch. A pretty smooth offensive player. Good FT shooter too.

DL C 6'11" Mickell Gladness -- he's thin and a bit raw but he might be able to help us out in the rebounding & shot-blocking departments.

-------------------------------------

If it were up to me, one of these guys would be in uniform tommorrow night against the Nets. I honestly have no idea what we're waiting for. Turiaf's hurt, we need another big ASAP. Cut this Mason Jr. already and get one of these guys in here..And I like the idea of trying out one or some of these guys first before trading all-important chips away for a guy like Jason Thompson. Jason Thompson's nice, would love to have him and I agree that he could help us --- I just question a couple of things: (1) how much better does he really make us, (2) what would be the Kings' asking price and if it's relatively steep which I think it would be (3) is it worth it to surrender 2 or 3 total assets to Sacramento to get him (whether it be AR and a pick(s), AR & TD, AR & Fields, AR & Chandler, multiple picks, Gallo?? --- who even says Sac would want AR btw? We're assuming that--they may feel they already have better forward/centers)--assets that we could use for Carmelo Anthony, a much better player than Jason Thompson..Melo is a STAR, JT is a serviceable young big--huge difference..Acquiring JT for multiple assets that would take us right out of the Melo sweepstakes is not a position I wanna see Donnie put us in right now. I'd rather save those chips for Melo or another star and in the meantime make a smart, lost-cost move for one of the guys above to add that gyuy we need for frontcourt depth.

I have long awaited the day the Knicks find a useful player from the D-League. Other teams do it (GSW Morrow!). I have no idea why we can't. Also agree that Roger Mason Jr has thus far proven to be pretty useless and I have no idea why he has a roster spot. I hear he's a nice guy though.

Uptown wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

scoshin wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:I haven't taken a hard look at the #s but if we sign Melo, is it safe to assume that we are pretty much locked into whatever the roster looks like with Melo on the Knicks whether he comes via trade or free agency?

People seem to be scared that Melo + Amare just won't be enough to be an elite team. Plus we won't be able to have 50,000 threads speculating about adding Chris Paul or some other superstar if we only have cap space for role players.

I'm gonna enjoy watching what this current team does and see what happens at the trade deadline and during the next offseason. Not sure if any two star combination other than Shaq + Kobe = guaranteed championship but Amare + Melo is gonna be a lot of fun to watch if it happens. Maybe the damn Pick n Roll will be easier to run without teams triple teaming Amare when he gets into the paint.

To clear enough space for Melo, we have to renounce/dump:

Chandler
Azubuike
Turiaf (will have to be moved -- or we could renounce Gallo's rookie option, but that would be stupid)

Moreover, we might have to trade away our 2011 pick depending on how tight the cap #'s are. Moreover, we have to renounce our rights to the MLE.

So in reality, we're still giving up some depth by waiting till the summer to sign Melo. If we can get a trade done for Melo with a Gallinari/AR package, we shouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger, even if it includes more throw-ins like Douglas or Walker. Gallo would have no defined role or position with Melo on the team, and AR is pretty expendable. Once Melo is on board, cap implications go out the window, and we can look to resign Chandler, Azubuike, keep Turiaf, and use our MLE/2011 draft pick on a backup PG + center.

We have a great player in Amare--the pieces fit well--we just need another quality big and for the guys to get just a tad more consistent with their energy. I like Chandler starting and Gallo @ 4--it gives us a true 4-1 set. Then we can come off the bench with a more powerful unit and mix and match for the rest of the game. No way would I give up chandler Gallo etc... for Carmelo we can get 20 from with Chandler or Gallo and atleast 16 every night. Add in fileds 10-11 we dont need much more from there. We do need a quality big who can come off the bench and give us 28 minutes 12-8 + if azu came back to form. Have Douglas concentrate on being more of a PG and then draft a PG or Big next year for depth.

Come on BRIGGS, your better than that. You can't say that Gallo's 20 has the same impact as Melo's. It doesn't work that way. Lee put up similar numbers to Amare but the impact and attention Amare draws is way different. Gallo and Chandler combined may give you what Melo does stat wise, but the impact is not the same. Melo gives us a legit go to scorer to close the game whihc we dont have right now. Also, Melo'a presence would cause the defense to shade to his side whenever he has the ball enabling Fields, Felt amd amare to be better than what they are now. Not only that, but Melo is the type that can carry the team offensively when we the rest of the team cant throw the ball in the ocean.

Dont let this 500. record fool you. If we wont to reach elite status in the east, we def need Melo.

Also, people tend to knock his passing because he only averages 3 assists (which is still more than Gallo or Chandler at SF), but whenever I watch Melo play, he does a good job of seeing the double team come and finding the open man. He's not like Amare or Al Harrington in that he'll barrel into 2-3 defenders. Plus, he gives us something which we completely lack on this team -- back-to-the-basket post play. Not sure if D'Antoni will use Melo like that, but the option is there.

misterearl wrote:"I got 99 problems but forward ain't one..."

Briggs - The Answer Man is with you on this.

Certainly, Anthony's three point range (36 per cent) is tantalizing, but his defense is not made for New York. LaLa sitting court side? Hey, it didn't work out too well for Tony Parker did it? Carmelo is a "me" player. Three assists per game? Will he share the pill?

Besides, The New Knicks are gradually evolving as "we" players, who rely on more than one or two appointed "stars" to do a job. Its a new triangle, featuring Stat, Gallo/The Mayor, Felton. The Miami Heat are discovering that three ego-driven stars can be more problems than money can solve.

The criteria should be to add/ groom a lead guard and another 6'11 center.

"fighters don't make fights... styles make fights."

Papabear Says

LeCon already said that he is not giving up his style of play and touches for anyone.

1. Either add player through trade (always hard to speculate on available talent out there)
2. Free Agency. Where Carmelo is by far the biggest prize next offseason.

The direct path to Carmelo is there. Just wait and then sign him outright with available cap space.

The path to any other player becomes hazy and requires some guesswork to figure into things.

Either we get Carmelo, or Walsh puts together a nice trade with another team out of the woodwork to upgrade the talent on the team.

Personally I think we're good either way because we could always trade Carmelo later for very high talent since he would most likely be on a 5 or 4 year contract.

we still have some holes to fill and the way the NBA works it will take another offseason or two to be ready to compete for the top prize. But Walsh has come a long way in 2 years. I look forward to seeing how he navigates things for us the next year.

BRIGGS wrote:I like Chandler Gallo and fields for my wings at a much cheaper price. They can score 20 without being ball dominant. You can see chemsirty forming. Obviously we have learned from Miami is the big piece is not necessarily the right piece and I firmly believe that now. Id really like to acquire Thompson from Scaremento and see what we have.

If we were 9 deep and minutes spread

C Amare 34
F Gallo 32
F Chandler 32
F/G Fields 32
G Felton 35
C Turriaf 15
F Thompson 28
G Azu 16
G Douglas 15

If azu comes back like the old azu and we were able to add Thompson--we can compete with the bigger teams--get adequate rest for players who need it and add a high % scoring player for the interior

+1