TMS wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:I really liked Jordan Hill when we had him. I always saw potential and athleticism in the guy, I did not see natural BBIQ, though he wasn't a knucklehead either. I agree it was Mike's fault he didn't get play, he could have helped us last year and I with he was still here.

That said, I see Mosgov turning into a really really good player and as I already said, he makes a HUGE difference on the defensive end. What I've noticed by watching him play and at the same time watching the box score, is that even when he is making mistakes his + - often goes +. I think it's just growing pains.

Again, look at Hasheem Thabeet, bigs take time and so far ours is having a bigger, much bigger impact than the #2 pick last year. You don't give up on bigs quickly, especially when they are doing good things.

i've come to the feeling that MDA plays favorites... this has been a problem since he came here, sometimes causing dissention & bitterness within the lockerroom... since none of us sees what goes on behind the scenes, i can only speculate that Mozgov is doing things in practice that AR simply isn't... this could be the cause of why Mozgov is getting a longer leash than AR in the rotation, just like what happened to Jordan Hill last season... but the puzzling factor in all this is that even Toney Douglas had a hard time getting playing time last year, even though i've never heard any utterance of him not working hard in practice or ever giving forth a full effort on the court when he did get playing time... who knows, maybe this is all a power struggle going on between MDA & DW... again, all i can do is speculate... but based on what i'm seeing out of Mozgov when he's on the floor, he looks nowhere near ready to be playing meaningful minutes at the NBA level, much less so than Jordan Hill or Toney Douglas did last year, & certainly less than AR... i can't honestly believe that MDA thinks playing Mozgov gives this team a better chance to win games right now... there has to be another reason.

Every coach plays favorites. That's why some loving playing for a coach and others don't. That's sports

BRIGGS wrote:Its pretty simple to me

Mosgov is not an NBA ready player.

We have a huge investment in Amare Stoudemire--who is an MVP type player.

We have some very nice pieces around him.

We cannot let him play so many minutes. We cant have so many roster spots stuck with nothing coming out of them.

I want to keep ALL of the starting 5 players long term yes including Chandler who is very under rated.

I am willing to deal ANYONE that was not starting yesterday including Turriaf and Douglas in the right deal. That means the whole roster with exception of yesterdays starting 5. My goal is to find pieces NOW that will push me to the next level in what has become a wide open east and NBA for that matter. Now it is up to D Walsh to improve the team and to do so before we start running Amare into the ground.

Fields, Chandler and Gallo are a nice group of do all versatile forwards who can all do some good things and I 100% agree are worth keeping.

Whats imperitive is that these guys stabalize the rotation so Mosgov and Randolph can get minutes and get better. Mosgov especially works very hard and isnt as far away from being an impact as people think. It will take 50 games to get the stupid fouls down. Once his minutes increase another 20-30 games to get a nice go-to move he can score with. Another 40-50 games before he really starts to time his jumps on rebounds, putting bodies on guys and timing his blocks.

What your looking at is late next year we have a good starting center. Maybe it take a little longer (look at Hibbert). If it takes 2-3 years fine. Amare is 28. There is zero indication his play is tailing off anytime soon. He's not a heavy plodder, he's very springy and there is no reason he cant play at this level for nother 5-6 years.

Either way you cant speed up time. Just because we have a couple good players doesnt mean you can change your philosophy.

We are more than a role player away right now. You just have to sit back and continue to evaluate.

I think the hands thing is a rookie issue because in the limited film I saw of him with Russia's FIBA team and Moscow, he caught pick and roll tosses just fine.

Seems some set expectations sky high and are now disappointed. Mozgov is an NBA quality center folks.

AnubisADL wrote:LOL I wasnt even super high on Mozgov and I think he is a solid NBA center.

Seems some set expectations sky high and are now disappointed. Mozgov is an NBA quality center folks.

not yet he isn't... & i don't even have even remotely high expectations for him... but you're lying if you think he looks ready to play the NBA game... he doesn't, at least not yet... that's not to say he never will... he's got all the size & athletic ability to become a serviceable C at the NBA level at the very least, but from what i've seen he doesn't look any more ready than BJ Mullens... at 24 years of age i honestly expected to see more than i have so far, & even those expectations were never that high to begin with.

knickstorrents wrote:

TMS wrote:i've come to the feeling that MDA plays favorites... this has been a problem since he came here, sometimes causing dissention & bitterness within the lockerroom...

He sure does play favorites - D'Antoni plays smart players... Timo has way higher BBIQ than Randolph.. Douglas can be a bit brain dead which is why it took him a while to get time (and he still is brain dead on offense). Fields, starter as a rookie with excellent IQ.

He plays favorites for sure, but there's a method to it. If you understand and see plays before they form, know what to do on the floor, you get to play. Otherwise, you don't.

what has Timo shown you in his play that tells you he's got a higher bball IQ than AR? from what i can tell he's not a good help defender as yet, he is late on rotations regularly & collects cheap fouls often... i haven't seen a good passing ability out of him, nor have i seen any sort of developed offensive skillset or instinct to cut to the hole at opportune times the way Landry Fields has shown all season long...i also have not seen a good rebounding instinct from Timo, he's often out positioned & outhustled on the floor to loose balls... the only thing i have seen out of him is a shotblocking ability, which AR also provides, only he does so off weak side help D whereas Timo is able to hold his ground against penetration due to his superior physicality & size... i fail to see where all this basketball IQ is being demonstrated by Timo out there in the games he's played this season... maybe i'm watching something else.

knicks1248 wrote:

izybx wrote:

JohnWallace44 wrote:You're worried about a 7ft defensive player's hands 1/4 of the way into his rookie season?

If he cuts down on fouls then he'll be extremely valuable. He can shoot and I think the hands thing is just rookie nerves.

I'm more concerned about his rebounding technique than anything.

listen to what youre saying...

"if he cuts down on the fouls"

this guy is a "defensive player" who fouls so much that he cant play defense. I know hes a rookie but have we seen any improvement in these 16 games? No.

"the hands thing s rookie nerves"

the hands thing is a HUGE problem. This guy literally cannot catch a ball without bobbling it. Watch the games, hes getting the ball passed right into his hands wide open under the rim and hell bobble it and turn it over. Hell go for a rebound and have to taken from him. Hes SCARED OF THE BALL.

"Im more concerned about his rebounding technique"

He cant catch the ball! He can get into position to get the rebound but than he acts like hes trying to catch a live grenade.

I think we see the same things in him. Truth is, Im a huge homer and am usually the first to defend a guy, but Timo playing over AR just boggles my mind. I imagine that AR has some attitude problem behind the scenes that is putting him in Dantonis doghouse, but theres got to be a better option than Mosgov right now. He is giving us nothing, and its hurting us.

He has the worse hands i ever saw, and although you may contribute that a little to nerves, keep in mind that he did play professional ball for a while. This isn't you ordinary rookie

Strangely, he looked to have good hands in preseason, but now he's bobbling every pass. Some of the passes are too low for him though. Whether it's nerves or preseason play being a fluke, Mozgov seems to be afraid of the ball now on offense.

On defense, it seems he picks up a lot of his dumb fouls when away from the actual play -- off-the-ball fouls where his man flops against him, and Mozgov, being his size and a rookie, doesn't get the benefit of the doubt from the ref. He's done a much better job not commiting a dumb foul when he's being posted up or a guard drives the lane.

fishmike wrote:

JohnWallace44 wrote:He's not an NBA player, but he impacts the game in a positive way in spot minutes when he intimidates around the rim. Even if he just plays the first few minutes it changes the mindset of the opposition.

I think the hands thing is a rookie issue because in the limited film I saw of him with Russia's FIBA team and Moscow, he caught pick and roll tosses just fine.

I have yet to see the Knicks run one set play for him.

Maybe that comes when he learns to stay on the floor. Seems a waste as we know he can do more than shoot a 15 foot jumper

Worse- in one of the last games, Moz made a great play on the defensive end and he never touched the ball that time down. As Clyde always harps- reward the big guy for making the defensive play.