Bippity10 wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:If the only way to develop is to be handed minutes in an NBA game, then someone please explain to me how a guy can go away for a summer and come back a better player then the year before. Are they playing in secret, black market NBa games?

Dude might have a point. In the European system players spend way more time developing skills vs just running game after game after game like players here. They develop soccer players the same way.

I think a lot of players would be better off playing club ball in Europe where they emphasize skills and they can play against grown men vs. playing HS games here against inferior opponents.

Don't call me dude.

People make this mistake all the time. They forget that the mental side is as important as teh physical side. You have to develop both.

Eddie Curry was handed minutes despite the fact that he was lazy as hell. What did he learn from this? He learned that his way of doing things is fine. He doesn't have to give that extra effort because he will get minutes anyway. Coaches were afraid to take his minutes away because they would be fired or they would risk "not developing him". The rest is history.

Basketball is a game of habits. Guys that play hard, play hard because it's a habit. Guys that lolligag do so out of habit. How do you change this? You change it by the only means of reasonable, if a guy isn't playign hard you take away their minutes and make them earn them. Never in world history has earning something been a bad thing.

D'Antoni has been very clear to Randolph. He has even mentioned it to us. He said that Randolph's minutes will be determined by his energy level. Why are we upset with this?

“Randolph can fill up a box score in just a few minutes,” coach Mike D’Antoni said. “The thing we’re working on now with Anthony is getting him to give a consistent effort.”

Good point dude.

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:If the only way to develop is to be handed minutes in an NBA game, then someone please explain to me how a guy can go away for a summer and come back a better player then the year before. Are they playing in secret, black market NBa games?

Dude might have a point. In the European system players spend way more time developing skills vs just running game after game after game like players here. They develop soccer players the same way.

I think a lot of players would be better off playing club ball in Europe where they emphasize skills and they can play against grown men vs. playing HS games here against inferior opponents.

Don't call me dude.

People make this mistake all the time. They forget that the mental side is as important as teh physical side. You have to develop both.

Eddie Curry was handed minutes despite the fact that he was lazy as hell. What did he learn from this? He learned that his way of doing things is fine. He doesn't have to give that extra effort because he will get minutes anyway. Coaches were afraid to take his minutes away because they would be fired or they would risk "not developing him". The rest is history.

Basketball is a game of habits. Guys that play hard, play hard because it's a habit. Guys that lolligag do so out of habit. How do you change this? You change it by the only means of reasonable, if a guy isn't playign hard you take away their minutes and make them earn them. Never in world history has earning something been a bad thing.

D'Antoni has been very clear to Randolph. He has even mentioned it to us. He said that Randolph's minutes will be determined by his energy level. Why are we upset with this?

“Randolph can fill up a box score in just a few minutes,” coach Mike D’Antoni said. “The thing we’re working on now with Anthony is getting him to give a consistent effort.”

Good point dude.

Sounds like a conversation with Tim Lincecum.

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

Vmart wrote:

TMS wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:Why do fans make stuff up??????? Timo is getting a free pass?????? He's a starter averaging 15 minutes a game and gets yanked after a couple stupid fouls, and often times will not see the court for quarters at a time. As a matter of fact, take away the first game, when he just returned from the injury and Randolph is averaging more minutes then Mozgov.

I can guarantee you non coaches, that when Randolph is ready to produce he will get extensive minutes. 35+ when he's ready.

He has a major issue. He is a guy that floats in and out of games mentally. We are trying to nip this in the bud, so we aren't dealing with this 40 games from now, or 2 years from now, or five years from now.

You'll notice that Gallinari is getting benched as well, when he isn't giving effort. Too much competition on this team to look the other way when any player is dogging it no matter how much potential they have.

i'm concerned that 7'1" Moz hasn't been able to pull down more boards since he's had the starting role... he is getting out positioned & out hustled for loose balls with regularity... he doesn't seem to have a good idea of where to position himself for boards when guys put up shots... it's clear he needs a lot of work in this area... a guy with his size & athleticism should easily be grabbing more boards.

The lack of a big man coach really hurts the knicks. Herb is not a big man coach. I'd like to bring in Moses Malone or even Oakley and work on rebound with the Knick's bigs.

Hakeem Olajuwon!

He worked with Kobe before last season and Kobe came back with a pretty nasty post game.

Dwight Howard worked with him this past offseason and looks better in the post too.

Yes both Kobe and Dwight Howard have tons of athleticism and talent but I would love love love for Hakeem to be the big man coach here even over my boy Patrick Ewing.

i don't know how much it would help but it certainly couldn't hurt... to be honest i have no idea how Herb Williams even has a job at this point... i can't remember any bigman who has improved in his inside game by working w/him in the past several years... David Lee became a perimeter midrange shooter since his rookie season to now & was always a terrific rebounder... Zach Randolph came in already with a developed low post game... Eddy Curry worked with Mark Aguire the season he put up his big year... Mike Sweetney was fat & out of shape... who has Herb really helped to develop in his time here? anyone have an answer?

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

Vmart wrote:

TMS wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:Why do fans make stuff up??????? Timo is getting a free pass?????? He's a starter averaging 15 minutes a game and gets yanked after a couple stupid fouls, and often times will not see the court for quarters at a time. As a matter of fact, take away the first game, when he just returned from the injury and Randolph is averaging more minutes then Mozgov.

I can guarantee you non coaches, that when Randolph is ready to produce he will get extensive minutes. 35+ when he's ready.

He has a major issue. He is a guy that floats in and out of games mentally. We are trying to nip this in the bud, so we aren't dealing with this 40 games from now, or 2 years from now, or five years from now.

You'll notice that Gallinari is getting benched as well, when he isn't giving effort. Too much competition on this team to look the other way when any player is dogging it no matter how much potential they have.

i'm concerned that 7'1" Moz hasn't been able to pull down more boards since he's had the starting role... he is getting out positioned & out hustled for loose balls with regularity... he doesn't seem to have a good idea of where to position himself for boards when guys put up shots... it's clear he needs a lot of work in this area... a guy with his size & athleticism should easily be grabbing more boards.

The lack of a big man coach really hurts the knicks. Herb is not a big man coach. I'd like to bring in Moses Malone or even Oakley and work on rebound with the Knick's bigs.

Hakeem Olajuwon!

He worked with Kobe before last season and Kobe came back with a pretty nasty post game.

Dwight Howard worked with him this past offseason and looks better in the post too.

Yes both Kobe and Dwight Howard have tons of athleticism and talent but I would love love love for Hakeem to be the big man coach here even over my boy Patrick Ewing.

i don't know how much it would help but it certainly couldn't hurt... to be honest i have no idea how Herb Williams even has a job at this point... i can't remember any bigman who has improved in his inside game by working w/him in the past several years... David Lee became a perimeter midrange shooter since his rookie season to now & was always a terrific rebounder... Zach Randolph came in already with a developed low post game... Eddy Curry worked with Mark Aguire the season he put up his big year... Mike Sweetney was fat & out of shape... who has Herb really helped to develop in his time here? anyone have an answer?

lee certainly developed his PnR game. Better question is has Herb had anyone legitimate to work with. Moz? Hill?

i'll give u that about Lee's PnR game... but Herb certainly has had legit guys to work with... i already mentioned Zach... Eddy Curry had a legitimate season under Mark Aguire's tutorlage before Zach got here, & was at least somewhat productive playing with him... Jordan Hill was a #8 lottery pick but he wasn't a legit canvas to work with? sure he didn't play up to his potential but he's playing better in Houston now averaging 6 / 5 / 2 in 20, of which he only really started playing regular minutes in his last 3 games... the other night Hill puts up 14 / 6 / 2 in 24 minutes off the bench & helps Houston to a W... to me, that's legitimate for an NBA player... certainly nothing to get overly excited over, but he's at least showing he could have been productive if given regular playing time, something he never got here... IMO his failure as a player has something to do with the failure of our coaching staff to develop his talent... of course he shoulders a big share of the blame also, but i don't see Herb's big impact on this team other than being a lovable figurehead to be honest... that's just my casual observation as a fan... for all i know he could be helping MDA a ton behind the scenes.

as for Moz, i have no idea if he's legit or not... it's still too early to tell... he definitely looks raw & not ready for the starting role, that much is clear to me... hopefully Herb can work with him to teach him the nuances of boxing out & positioning under the boards for rebounds.