CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I think Timofey starting is similar to when Monty Williams started his rookie year. It gives the team some balance and makes that second unit very powerful. Turiaf and Randolph are both probably going to end up with a lot more minutes but Timofey gets a chance to develop and has guaranteed minutes right now. If he comes off the bench he might not make it off. Also, Hill should have played last year and been at least given the opportunity Timofey was. I don't think there is any argument that can be made to justify not playing the 8 pick on a 29 win team with almost every player on the team having an expiring contract.

Actually Timo serves a purpose. He's not just out there doing nothing. He's being given the chance to develop, but at the same time he is helping our interior D and saving Turiaf from any early fouls against some of the Leagues tougher bigs. I agree that it's helping our bench, but it's also been effective for our starting line up. Our size is very solid to begin games. It's not about overall effectiveness at this point, cuz this kid has the kind of talent to be a starting C. He needs to play and he needs time to get adjusted. At least he's been making progress.

Hill was not doing what Mike wanted starting from SL all the way thru camp and preseason. That's not good. Timo on the other hand was impressing everyone from the start and that's why they gave him this rare opportunity.

I agree that Timofey serves a purpose but there was no excuse for Hill and Douglas not playing last year. I don't think D'Antoni ever accepted that he couldn't win last year and when things went bad (1-9) he stopped playing the guys that were the future of the team because he wanted to try and win. This is a different year. There are leaders in the locker room. Communication is handled by vets that demand and get respect not Duhon.

The only problem I have with this assumption is that you're assuming you know better than the coach of the team as to who should be playing and when. You don't really know what Hill was doing in practice nor how they felt about the progress that TD was making. We don't know what they were trying to teach TD and how that was going.

Also 1-9 is not the time to give up on a season. This isn't football. There are so many games left that you can't count a team out. As it is the team actually got back into contention for the playoffs, so it's clear that there was a valid reason for Mike to keep trying to win.

None of this matters anymore and really I think this entire belief that Mike was in the wrong is just off base. Coach after coach came in here and looked just as feeble with the players we used to have. He didn't do anything that was unreasonable for a coach to do. Now he's looking to catch a bit of good fortune with his rotation stretched by using Fields and Timo and it's working very well so far. Last year the best success he had was with his vets, so clearly he's not off base in his decision making.

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I think Timofey starting is similar to when Monty Williams started his rookie year. It gives the team some balance and makes that second unit very powerful. Turiaf and Randolph are both probably going to end up with a lot more minutes but Timofey gets a chance to develop and has guaranteed minutes right now. If he comes off the bench he might not make it off. Also, Hill should have played last year and been at least given the opportunity Timofey was. I don't think there is any argument that can be made to justify not playing the 8 pick on a 29 win team with almost every player on the team having an expiring contract.

Actually Timo serves a purpose. He's not just out there doing nothing. He's being given the chance to develop, but at the same time he is helping our interior D and saving Turiaf from any early fouls against some of the Leagues tougher bigs. I agree that it's helping our bench, but it's also been effective for our starting line up. Our size is very solid to begin games. It's not about overall effectiveness at this point, cuz this kid has the kind of talent to be a starting C. He needs to play and he needs time to get adjusted. At least he's been making progress.

Hill was not doing what Mike wanted starting from SL all the way thru camp and preseason. That's not good. Timo on the other hand was impressing everyone from the start and that's why they gave him this rare opportunity.

I agree that Timofey serves a purpose but there was no excuse for Hill and Douglas not playing last year. I don't think D'Antoni ever accepted that he couldn't win last year and when things went bad (1-9) he stopped playing the guys that were the future of the team because he wanted to try and win. This is a different year. There are leaders in the locker room. Communication is handled by vets that demand and get respect not Duhon.

The only problem I have with this assumption is that you're assuming you know better than the coach of the team as to who should be playing and when. You don't really know what Hill was doing in practice nor how they felt about the progress that TD was making. We don't know what they were trying to teach TD and how that was going.

Also 1-9 is not the time to give up on a season. This isn't football. There are so many games left that you can't count a team out. As it is the team actually got back into contention for the playoffs, so it's clear that there was a valid reason for Mike to keep trying to win.

None of this matters anymore and really I think this entire belief that Mike was in the wrong is just off base. Coach after coach came in here and looked just as feeble with the players we used to have. He didn't do anything that was unreasonable for a coach to do. Now he's looking to catch a bit of good fortune with his rotation stretched by using Fields and Timo and it's working very well so far. Last year the best success he had was with his vets, so clearly he's not off base in his decision making.

Either way I like Timofey in the starting line up. I think it guarantees him minutes, balances the line up and makes the second unit very strong.

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:

rvwink wrote:Turiaf
6.3 points, 4.3 reb., 2.5 assists, +13.5 eff., 2.2 bk2, TO .2, .600 shooting % in 24 min a game.

Mosgov
1.5 points, 2.5 reb. .5 assists, 2.25 eff, .8 bks, To 1.5, .286 shooting % in 12.5 min a game

Whose game do you like better for the Knicks over the whole season? Also, which of Mosgov's numbers do you think will improve the most during the season? How many rebounds is he likely to get for example?

Turiaf should be starting right now, it's pretty obvious if u ask me... Mozgov is still getting used to the NBA tempo, he should be coming off the bench until he gets more comfortable w/this offense.

You should applaud the move Mike is making. He's giving Timo a great opportunity to go against the best in the league and learn. He's gonna have to learn the starting bigs in the league and what better way than with the 1st unit? This is also not a case of Timo hurting the team when he's out there. He's actually doing OK, he's just not spectacular in any way. This saves Turiaf some fouls too. Ronny is doing well against the second unit guys on D.

why should i applaud something i disagree with? you can like the fact that we're starting a rookie who doesn't look like he's ready to start, but i can't... i think it would be better for him to be eased into the starting rotation over the course of the season... Mozgov getting minutes i have no problem with, but Turiaf should be starting right now... he has been the much more effective player on the court so far.

Ok, but I think Mike is actually getting a good benefit from going this way at this point. Maybe he'll change things up, but from the way things have gone so far, I see no reason to change. It's a PLUS for Timo to be in there against the staring Bigs in the NBA and gain that experience. Turiaf still gets starter minutes and doesn't have to worry about picking up any early fouls. It's working!

if we weren't trying to contend for the playoffs this year, i'd have no problem w/starting Mozgov & letting him learn on the fly... case in point, Jordan Hill or Toney Douglas last year... right now the season is still up for grabs, every win is important for us... Landry Fields is showing himself well... Moz, not so much... maybe he will benefit from starting but i'd prefer we wait until he shows he understands what he should be doing on the floor before we throw him out on the floor as a starter for now... if in the 2nd half of the season we're out of playoff contention, then i'd have no problem w/giving him 30+ a night to let him develop & mature regardless if he was ready or not.

IF Hill had shown the same level of hustle and understanding of the game he could've started. Timo from what I've seen fully understands what he's doing out there, he just needs to keep playing games and his teammates need to trust him a bit more. Timo has been open and not received the ball, he's made smart passes, played solid D. Exactly what has he done wrong? He's made sins of omission, not commission. He could do more out there, but he hasn't been messing up.

not for nothing but Hill showed more in his first 5 games of NBA action than Mozgov has... Hill had scored 25 pts. 9 rebounds & 2 blocked shots in total over his first 5 games & that's in alot less minutes than Mozgov has had so far... Mozgov has scored 12 pts. 10 rebounds & 3 blocked shots in total so far after his first 5 games... i'm not saying these are indicative of much, but your assumption that Mozgov has shown more of an understanding of the game than Hill is IMO unfounded... to me he still looks like a rookie who's lost & isn't ready for a starter's role.

also, for a 7'1" guy i would have expected him to be grabbing a lot more rebounds than he is now... that has nothing to do w/his teammates needing to trust him more... i just think he's getting out positioned & out muscled right now by more savvy vets under the boards.

again, i'm not ragging on the kid's talent because i do think he's got a nice upside... i'm just saying right now it's obvious to me that he needs more seasoning & that Turiaf gives us a better chance to win games as a starter... IMO it would probably benefit Mozgov more to be able to go up against the backup C's on other teams rather than struggling against their starters, at least until his confidence & game comes around to the point where he can take over the role down the road.

TOTALLY DISAGREE. You can put those empty ass stats up but for my money both in preseason till now I've like what Timo has been doing much more. Mind you Timo isn't getting garbage minutes, he's playing with the starters against the starters!!! Plus Timo's team D and intimidation is far superior to anything that Hill did. The point tho is that Timo is serving a purpose in the overall scheme of things and we've been getting off to solid starts with him in there. More and more his teammates are learning to trust him and you'll start to see more from him.

Timo doesn't have the offensive skills Hill so Hill has an advantage in that regard, but Timo isn't out there bumping into his own teammates the way Hill seemed to do when he was out there. It's clear that Timo understand the game and how to move and where to be much better. Remember he's out there with the starters and for the most part he can tend to blend in. If he was out of sorts he'd be in the way and you'd notice that, but he's doing the right things.

i love how defensive you get anytime someone disagrees with a decision made by your favorite head coach... i gave you those stats to show you that you really have no basis for your argument that Moz has shown a better understanding of the game than Hill in the early going... i seriously don't know what you're watching out there if you think he's looked like he knows what he's doing out on the floor... to me he looks lost... right now it's clear to me he still needs more seasoning on his game... u can PUT YOUR NEXT REPLY IN ALL CAPS but it doesn't make what you're saying any more accurate... & maybe those are empty ass stats, but at least i'm giving you something to base my counter argument on, not just empty ass speculation... when a guy plays 14 minutes & doesn't pull down a single rebound like Moz did last night, it tells me he's getting out positioned & out hustled out on the floor.

crzymdups wrote:anyone who can't see the positive impact Timo has on the game while he's out there... geez louise. he's a shotblocker, he deters people attacking the rim. ronny, toney and wilson are one of the strongest bench units in the league right now. we have a good mix. timo is learning on the fly, but he's getting better every game.

BRIGGS wrote:Turriaf I give him a LOT of credit. I didnt think he was much of a fit and hes bee close to the MVP of the team. I don't think he is built to play 30 minutes and we have to watch that. We need randolph to play like he did in GS hes got to play like a 4 NOT a 3 and thats whats going on. Randolph is playing scared and in between positions which is causing indecision and weakness.

good to see you come around on Turiaf... the guy plays his heart out every time he's on the floor... i agree he's not built to play 30+ a night, but right now he's our best option at the C position IMO.