AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gadzuda01.html

after fish gave you a bucketload of examples you come back with 1 example in the opposite direction and think this makes an argument or adds anything relevant? AnubisADL, I am not sure how you expect to make points on this site, but this is exactly how NOT to do it.

Dude seriously he was posting dudes that were lottery picks. Andrew Bogut(1st pick)? Marcus Camby(2nd pick)? Jermaine O'neal(17th pick out of HIGHSCHOOL)? Dikembembe Motumbo(4th pick)? Kurt Thomas (10th pick)?

I post a guy taken in the 2nd round and you come at me sideways. Come on now. Mosgov wasn't a lottery pick for a reason. Mosgov has DIDDLY in common with those guys he posted.

pay attention to what you posted. Your argument was based on the fact that Moz was 24 and he wouldn't get better cause he was already of a certain age, not about where the player was drafted.

Moz wasn't drafted. Moz wasn't a draft pick cause he didn't have much exposure and he started bball late in life.

Timofey doesn't get drafted, he drafts his own team.

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gadzuda01.html

after fish gave you a bucketload of examples you come back with 1 example in the opposite direction and think this makes an argument or adds anything relevant? AnubisADL, I am not sure how you expect to make points on this site, but this is exactly how NOT to do it.

Dude seriously he was posting dudes that were lottery picks. Andrew Bogut(1st pick)? Marcus Camby(2nd pick)? Jermaine O'neal(17th pick out of HIGHSCHOOL)? Dikembembe Motumbo(4th pick)? Kurt Thomas (10th pick)?

I post a guy taken in the 2nd round and you come at me sideways. Come on now. Mosgov wasn't a lottery pick for a reason. Mosgov has DIDDLY in common with those guys he posted.

pay attention to what you posted. Your argument was based on the fact that Moz was 24 and he wouldn't get better cause he was already of a certain age, not about where the player was drafted.

Moz wasn't drafted. Moz wasn't a draft pick cause he didn't have much exposure and he started bball late in life.

Timofey doesn't get drafted, he drafts his own team.

I know what I posted. I posted Dan Gadzuric who was a 2nd round pick and came into the league when he was 24. Dan Gadzuric is also an athletic big.

When a guy is 24 and goes undrafted I think Randolph Morris. How many undrafted 22+ yr old bigs become something in the League?

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gadzuda01.html

after fish gave you a bucketload of examples you come back with 1 example in the opposite direction and think this makes an argument or adds anything relevant? AnubisADL, I am not sure how you expect to make points on this site, but this is exactly how NOT to do it.

Dude seriously he was posting dudes that were lottery picks. Andrew Bogut(1st pick)? Marcus Camby(2nd pick)? Jermaine O'neal(17th pick out of HIGHSCHOOL)? Dikembembe Motumbo(4th pick)? Kurt Thomas (10th pick)?

I post a guy taken in the 2nd round and you come at me sideways. Come on now. Mosgov wasn't a lottery pick for a reason. Mosgov has DIDDLY in common with those guys he posted.

pay attention to what you posted. Your argument was based on the fact that Moz was 24 and he wouldn't get better cause he was already of a certain age, not about where the player was drafted.

Moz wasn't drafted. Moz wasn't a draft pick cause he didn't have much exposure and he started bball late in life.

Timofey doesn't get drafted, he drafts his own team.

I know what I posted. I posted Dan Gadzuric who was a 2nd round pick and came into the league when he was 24. Dan Gadzuric is also an athletic big.

When a guy is 24 and goes undrafted I think Randolph Morris. How many undrafted 22+ yr old bigs become something in the League?

show me 1 undrafted 22+ year old born on Feb 29th, during a hailstorm and a stampede of wild zebras that ever amounted to anything in this League.

Thought so. I rest my case.

The skys the limit for Mosgov. Future HOF'er for sure.

Panos wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gadzuda01.html

after fish gave you a bucketload of examples you come back with 1 example in the opposite direction and think this makes an argument or adds anything relevant? AnubisADL, I am not sure how you expect to make points on this site, but this is exactly how NOT to do it.

Dude seriously he was posting dudes that were lottery picks. Andrew Bogut(1st pick)? Marcus Camby(2nd pick)? Jermaine O'neal(17th pick out of HIGHSCHOOL)? Dikembembe Motumbo(4th pick)? Kurt Thomas (10th pick)?

I post a guy taken in the 2nd round and you come at me sideways. Come on now. Mosgov wasn't a lottery pick for a reason. Mosgov has DIDDLY in common with those guys he posted.

pay attention to what you posted. Your argument was based on the fact that Moz was 24 and he wouldn't get better cause he was already of a certain age, not about where the player was drafted.

Moz wasn't drafted. Moz wasn't a draft pick cause he didn't have much exposure and he started bball late in life.

Timofey doesn't get drafted, he drafts his own team.

I know what I posted. I posted Dan Gadzuric who was a 2nd round pick and came into the league when he was 24. Dan Gadzuric is also an athletic big.

When a guy is 24 and goes undrafted I think Randolph Morris. How many undrafted 22+ yr old bigs become something in the League?

show me 1 undrafted 22+ year old born on Feb 29th, during a hailstorm and a stampede of wild zebras that ever amounted to anything in this League.

Thought so. I rest my case.

Mozgov = blobman ???

AnubisADL wrote:I suppose Im not allowed to have an opinion.

The skys the limit for Mosgov. Future HOF'er for sure.

You're allowed to have an opinion. This is a young team and some people may be overly optimistic on some of the yoot but I just find it hilarious that you make these almost guarantees on just where the ceiling is for a lot of these kids.

So far your crystal ball knows that Anthony Randolph will be nothing more than a role player and Mozgov's career path will be less than Darko and Gadzuric. Damn dude..you must win your fantasy basketball league every season with that kind of infinite foresight.

You seem to hate Randolph, Gallo, and Mozgov, etc. Have you just been so scarred by the last 10 years that you have to poop on all the players? Are you jumping ship to the Nets when they move to Brooklyn? If you've stuck it out the past decade you may as well stick it out right now and try to contribute some positive karma to the team.

Also you have a tendency to make some extreme proclamations and then leave threads when someone responds.

He will give us a solid 15+ mpg this year, at very least to strike some fear into the paint raiders. But I bet his game develops more quickly than a typical NBA big due to his apparently high hoops IQ and obvious athletic gifts.

I don't know Silma, but I'd sure like to see Timofey develop a drop-step jumper (like Patrick and the Dream), a midrange jumper for when his guy dares him to shoot, some solid head/ball fakes and a keen eye for the open shooter. I'd like to see him bang and out hustle dudes for rebounds. He seems hungry to impress and I have a feeling he will do just that this season. No way for me to gauge his ceiling, so it's an unknown, which means it could be anything from bust to superstar.

No matter what the time-traveler claims, there's no denying we have a 7'1" big who runs and is very athletic, which is more than we could say for the last many years.

The kids draw back is that he's a foul machine, he was coming off the bench even though he was better then any big man on his team.. A guy who gets into foul trouble is a lazy defender( fouls once he gets beat) or an overly agressive defender (wants to block every shot) I think AR and TIM fall into the overly agressive catagory..later on (like camby) they will learn it's just as effective to altar a shot, as it is to swating it...This way you stay in the game.

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gadzuda01.html

after fish gave you a bucketload of examples you come back with 1 example in the opposite direction and think this makes an argument or adds anything relevant? AnubisADL, I am not sure how you expect to make points on this site, but this is exactly how NOT to do it.

Dude seriously he was posting dudes that were lottery picks. Andrew Bogut(1st pick)? Marcus Camby(2nd pick)? Jermaine O'neal(17th pick out of HIGHSCHOOL)? Dikembembe Motumbo(4th pick)? Kurt Thomas (10th pick)?

I post a guy taken in the 2nd round and you come at me sideways. Come on now. Mosgov wasn't a lottery pick for a reason. Mosgov has DIDDLY in common with those guys he posted.

pay attention to what you posted. Your argument was based on the fact that Moz was 24 and he wouldn't get better cause he was already of a certain age, not about where the player was drafted.

Moz wasn't drafted. Moz wasn't a draft pick cause he didn't have much exposure and he started bball late in life.

Timofey doesn't get drafted, he drafts his own team.

I know what I posted. I posted Dan Gadzuric who was a 2nd round pick and came into the league when he was 24. Dan Gadzuric is also an athletic big.

When a guy is 24 and goes undrafted I think Randolph Morris. How many undrafted 22+ yr old bigs become something in the League?

Brad Miller was undrafted by the way and on my list.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wallabe01.html

There is another who was UNDRAFTED and had a pretty solid career once he took off at 27 years old.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hasleud01.html

Yet another undrafted player who's game went up a notch after 24

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nocioan01.html

Another frontcourt guy. Undrafted. In the NBA at 25. Much better player at age 26. Weird.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/landrca01.html

Another... undrafted in the NBA at 24. two years into it at the no longer developing age of 26 goes from 10ppg to 17ppg.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/okurme01.html

2nd round pick. Comes in the league at 23. At 25 goes from 10ppg to 13ppg. At 26 goes from 13ppg to 18ppg

Are we catching on yet?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/robincl02.html

Good old uncle Cliffy! 2nd round pick. In the NBA at 23. 4th year in the league he goes from 12ppg to 20ppg at the age of 26. Also becomes one of the more savvy and slick defensive players in the league.

See the pattern yet?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gadzuda01.html

Ah yes... good old Gadz. To be fair he was coming on pretty strong in his 3rd year. in 22 mpg he averaged just under 9 boards, 2 blocks and shot over 50%. Of course the following year the Bucks draft a guy named Bogut and Gadz is a backup. It doesnt help that he's just not that good.

Anubis... thanks for playing.

Tell me again why Mosgov has a low ceiling? Cause he's 24 right?

Sven Nater!

Who?

Sven Nater!

Huh? He as Bill Waltons back up in college. Not a great gig if you ask me.

Y'all know Bill. BIll was the greatest college center. Amazing record!!!!

Sven gets drafted in first round in 1972 by the Milwaukee Bucks. Decides playing back up to that Lou Alcinder guy is not a good gig either (UCLA Connection) so he goes to ABA instead.

Has a nice long career. Had years he avged 15 ppg. Had a year he avged 15 rebs a game. Nice career.

Age Drafted: 24

Why big men develope later? They need their "man strength" in thier legs. Yoots break down early if they play low. Not saying all of them. Bynum is a great example, Oden, Sam Bowie, Ralph Sampson (should never played center but at 7-4 where else you gonna play?) Larue Martin (1972 first overall pick), etc etc.

Other examples of bigs maturing a bit later is well documented. They got to get thicker.

HIstory of big men gong down young. BUt, as they age they can play longer. Shaq, Mutumbo, Jabbar, Wilt......

Guards age out when they lose a step. Big men get stronger.

Sven Nater! http://www.basketballreference.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=NATERSW01%20

fishmike wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Mosgov is already 24 yrs old. I dont see him getting much better than he is now. He has been playing professionally for awhile now and still has no left hand. Of course he can fine tune things but I dont expect him to be finishing with hi left hand anytime soon.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealje01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millebr01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/westda01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomaku01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/laimbbi01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mutomdi01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bogutan01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cambyma01.html

I could do this all day. If you think Mosgov has a low ceiling feel free to say why. Age isnt one though... if you know anything about the NBA its that many many many big men, and some great big men simply dont fint their game until their mid or even later 20s. Camby didnt rebound until he was 26. Lots of bigs just take a few years. Hell Mutumbo was better after 30 than before 30. Bigs are simply different.

Mosgov being 24 is a positive. If he was some 19 year old over hyped Euro like Skita or Lampe I would be more ho hum, but at 24 he's ready to be an NBA player IMO.

yeah, Bigs typically take longer to figure it out. Also, 24 isn't old...just 2years older than Randolph and 1 older than Danillo.