bernard wrote:To clarify, I'm not criticizing Donnie for hyping his players. That's part of being a GM. I'm just remarking on how he does it with a quiet, clever style that gives him added credibility. And also pointing out that he's doing it.

Sure, AR may blow up and turn into a perennial all-star. Sure he's got tremendous upside. Maybe he'll be a 20/10/5/2.5/1.5 guy (Has ANYONE ever done that -- maybe Bird or Magic?). Maybe Rose and Westbrook will be 25/10 guys. Who knows? And I hope as much as all of us that it happens for AR. But if we're dispassionate, we have to agree that he hasn't accomplsihed as much or shown himself to be more talented than those 4 -- all of whom have started their careers very impressively -- and all of whom are pretty sick athletes in their own rights.

Nah AR is just behind those guys in terms of his development, but he's shown the signs of being the kind of player we're talking about. Rose and Gordon are not likely to ever be 20/10 guys at their position. I will say that AR has that rare blend of size, agility, speed, length and skill to be an elite player one day. We've got to at least allow him a chance to grow into that. He was showing good signs last year before he went down. I'm sure he's been working hard since before the trade and even more after to be ready to show what he can do. Rose is a very talented player more along the lines of other great combo guards. Gordon is a short SG and I don't see him having the same kind of impact AR could have over his career. Let's just hope AR develops while with us.

Westbrook																					
Season 	G  	GS  	MP  	FG  	FGA  	FG%  	3P  	3PA  	3P%  	FT  	FTA  	FT%  	ORB  	DRB  	TRB  	AST  	STL  	BLK  	TOV  	PF  	PTS
2008-09 82 	65	2668	5.9	14.8	0.398	0.5	1.7	0.271	4.7	5.8	0.815	2.4	3	5.4	5.9	1.5	0.2	3.7	2.6	16.9	
2009-10 82 	82	2813	6.2	14.8	0.418	0.3	1.3	0.221	4.2	5.4	0.78	1.8	3.3	5.1	8.3	1.4	0.4	3.4	2.6	16.9
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------	
Career 	164	147	5481	6	14.8	0.408	0.4	1.5	0.249	4.5	5.6	0.798	2.1	3.1	5.3	7.1	1.4	0.3	3.6	2.6	16.9
																					
Rose																					
Season 	G  	GS  	MP  	FG  	FGA  	FG%  	3P  	3PA  	3P%  	FT  	FTA  	FT%  	ORB  	DRB  	TRB  	AST  	STL  	BLK  	TOV  	PF  	PTS
2008-09 81 	80	3000	6.9	14.5	0.475	0.2	0.9	0.222	2.4	3	0.788	1.2	2.7	3.8	6.1	0.8	0.2	2.4	1.5	16.3	
2009-10 78 	78	2871	8.4	17.2	0.489	0.2	0.8	0.267	3.2	4.2	0.766	0.8	2.9	3.7	5.9	0.7	0.3	2.7	1.2	20.3
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------	
Career 	159	158	5871	7.6	15.8	0.483	0.2	0.8	0.242	2.8	3.6	0.776	1	2.8	3.7	6	0.8	0.3	2.6	1.4	18.3
																					
Gordon																					
Season  G  	GS  	MP  	FG  	FGA  	FG%  	3P  	3PA  	3P%  	FT  	FTA  	FT%  	ORB  	DRB  	TRB  	AST  	STL  	BLK  	TOV  	PF  	PTS	
2008-09 78 	65	2677	5.5	12.1	0.456	1.8	4.5	0.389	4	4.7	0.854	0.6	2.1	2.7	2.9	1	0.5	2.2	2.3	16.8	
2009-10 62 	60	2229	5.7	12.7	0.449	1.9	5.2	0.371	3.6	4.8	0.742	0.4	2.2	2.6	3	1.1	0.2	2.3	1.6	16.9	
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Career 	140    125	4906	5.6	12.4	0.453	1.8	4.8	0.38	3.8	4.8	0.803	0.5	2.1	2.6	2.9	1.1	0.4	2.3	2	16.9	
																					
Mayo																					
Season 	G  	GS  	MP  	FG  	FGA  	FG%  	3P  	3PA  	3P%  	FT  	FTA  	FT%  	ORB  	DRB  	TRB  	AST  	STL  	BLK  	TOV  	PF  	PTS
2008-09 82 	82	3120	6.5	14.8	0.438	1.7	4.4	0.384	2.8	3.2	0.879	0.6	2.9	3.6	3	1	0.1	2.6	2.4	17.5	
2009-10 82 	82	3113	6.3	13.7	0.458	1.6	4.1	0.383	2.5	3	0.809	0.7	2.9	3.6	2.8	1.1	0.2	2	2	16.6	
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Career 	164	164	6233	6.4	14.2	0.448	1.6	4.2	0.383	2.7	3.1	0.845	0.7	2.9	3.6	2.9	1.1	0.2	2.3	2.2	17
Gallo																					
Season  G  	GS  	MP  	FG  	FGA  	FG%  	3P  	3PA  	3P%  	FT  	FTA  	FT%  	ORB  	DRB  	TRB  	AST  	STL  	BLK  	TOV  	PF  	PTS	
2008-09 28 	2	412	4.9	10.9	0.448	2.8	6.3	0.444	2.3	2.4	0.963	1.1	3.7	4.8	1.3	1.2	0.3	1.3	4.2	14.9	
2009-10 81 	74	2747	5.1	12.1	0.423	2.4	6.4	0.381	3.3	4	0.818	0.9	4.4	5.2	1.8	1	0.8	1.4	2.5	16	
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Career 	109	76	3159	5.1	12	0.426	2.5	6.4	0.389	3.2	3.8	0.829	0.9	4.3	5.2	1.7	1	0.7	1.4	2.7	15.9
																					
AR																					
Season 	G  	GS  	MP  	FG  	FGA  	FG%  	3P  	3PA  	3P%  	FT  	FTA  	FT%  	ORB  	DRB  	TRB  	AST  	STL  	BLK  	TOV  	PF  	PTS
2008-09 63 	22	1129	6.3	13.7	0.462	0	0.1	0	3.2	4.5	0.716	4.1	7.5	11.6	1.6	1.3	2.4	2.6	4.5	15.9	
2009-10 33 	8	749	6.6	14.9	0.443	0	0.2	0.2	5.2	6.5	0.801	3.5	6.8	10.3	2	1.3	2.5	2.4	4.4	18.5
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------	
Career 	96	30	1878	6.4	14.2	0.454	0	0.2	0.111	4	5.3	0.758	3.9	7.2	11.1	1.7	1.3	2.4	2.5	4.5	16.9

Different positions, different teammates, different roles.

SupremeCommander wrote:

nixluva wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

bernard wrote:More talented than Rose, Mayo, Westbrook, Gordon? Donnie seems so sane and reasonable, hangin' in his wheelchair, but he's got a lot of hype in him.

agreed... anyone would've taken Rose first overall, and I'm fairly certain he would have taken Westbrook if he had the second pick

AR has higher potential than Rose IMO. That doesn't mean he'll realize all of that potential, but as Fishmike brought out, what if he gets to the point of 20ppg - 10rebs - 2 blks plus 4 assists - that would prove Donnie right. He has the potential to be a more impactful player. Guys like Rose and Gordon are great scorers, but that doesn't make them better talents.

I'm not arguing about AR's talent level--I'm excited to have him on the team. But come on, you're telling me you would have drafted AR over Rose if you had the first overall pick? Rose was guaranteed impact player, simple as that. Huge upside and minimal downside. Maybe AR will be a better player in the long run and I certainly hope that that's the case. But as Walsh said, Little Stick Boy might break. Put down the KoolAid and do yourself a favor and quit believing your propaganda

Walsh never said he would have drafted AR ahead of those guys. You need to understand what he said and compare it with what he did. He said AR was the best talent not the best draft choice. He drafted Gallo ahead of AR.

loweyecue wrote:

nixluva wrote:I can understand some of the doubt about the Knicks chances of being a good team. This is a new team and people just don't know what to expect. These are all just best guesses, but in looking at the talent as I always do it's a good collection. The difference this year is that the intangibles are great too! Usually we can't speak much about the intangibles except to hope like last year, that the vets on last year contracts wouldn't play selfish, which they did. Guys like "Al i'm gonna pass more Harrington" killed our chances. I get killed for my positive predictions, but in most cases there was enough talent to reach .500, but that really depended upon the players buying in and sacrificing, which they paid lip service to, but never did.

This year we see Amar'e, Felton leading by example and vocally. We see young talent like AR, coming in early to work together and just a better working attitude. We've had players with talent before, but this time the talent is matched with the work ethic and wanting to be team players and winners.

Good call hommie, I have typically been amused by your optimism with our past teams, but this time I am right there with you.

In the last few years we've had .500 talent, but .300 intangibles. Now I think we have above .500 talent and above. 500 intangibles. It's a great recipe for success.

Panos wrote:

martin wrote:Per 36 Minutes

																			
AR																					
Season 	G  	GS  	MP  	FG  	FGA  	FG%  	3P  	3PA  	3P%  	FT  	FTA  	FT%  	ORB  	DRB  	TRB  	AST  	STL  	BLK  	TOV  	PF  	PTS
2008-09 63 	22	1129	6.3	13.7	0.462	0	0.1	0	3.2	4.5	0.716	4.1	7.5	11.6	1.6	1.3	2.4	2.6	4.5	15.9	
2009-10 33 	8	749	6.6	14.9	0.443	0	0.2	0.2	5.2	6.5	0.801	3.5	6.8	10.3	2	1.3	2.5	2.4	4.4	18.5
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------	
Career 	96	30	1878	6.4	14.2	0.454	0	0.2	0.111	4	5.3	0.758	3.9	7.2	11.1	1.7	1.3	2.4	2.5	4.5	16.9

Different positions, different teammates, different roles.

18.5 pts, 10 rbs, 2.5 blocks, 2 assts in his second year. How anyone can look at those numbers and not be excited, I have no idea.

thats per 36 stats (you may have already known that). nelson had him in 33 games, and avg 22 mins last year. he was hurt a bit, plus nelson was a nut.

fishmike wrote:At Gallo's current age Larry was a Junior in college. At the end of next year we will be able to compare

Amen and the the only thing Bird really showed in college was a great outside shot. gee that sounds like Gallo when when he cam into the league-equivalent to Bird's soph or jr years

Name           Pts   RBs   BLK  AST  STL  Act-MPG
A Randolph     18.5  10.0  2.5  2.0  1.3  22
Camby          16.8   8.4  4.1  2.0  1.2  31.8
J O'Neal       12.0   9.1  2.7  0.8  0.5  13.5
Garnett        15.7   7.4  1.9  2.9  1.3  38.9
Amare          20.1   8.8  1.6  1.4  1.2  36.9
Odom           16.6   7.5  1.5  5.0  1.0  37.2
D Howard       15.5  12.2  1.4  1.5  0.8  36.8
Josh Smith     12.7   7.4  2.9  2.7  0.9  32.0

If these per 36 numbers can be trusted, I'd say he stacks up quite well against some of the cream of the crop:
2nd in Pts
2nd in RBs
4th in Blks (and Howard, Camby, and Smith were first, third and fifth in the league last year)
5th in Assts
tied 1st in steals