Bippity10 wrote:One last thing, after this summer, and after the trades made by Boston, and the trade/free agent moves by the Lakers to acquire Shaq and Kobe, and the trades by Detroit to get Rip and Ben and Chauncey, I find it hard to believe that someone would say that the draft is the only way to build a winner.

It's funny you say this, cause if I could pull up some of the post from the old MSG BOARDS... belive you me, theres quite a few of you that have change your tune as far as building though the draft..I always knew that building through the draft was a straight crap shoot...

No matter how you look at it, almost all of our draft picks have been traded for ethier cap space or players...Im almost certain that TD and chandler will be the next ones to get ship out for better talent, it's just a matter of time.

knicks1248 wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:One last thing, after this summer, and after the trades made by Boston, and the trade/free agent moves by the Lakers to acquire Shaq and Kobe, and the trades by Detroit to get Rip and Ben and Chauncey, I find it hard to believe that someone would say that the draft is the only way to build a winner.

It's funny you say this, cause if I could pull up some of the post from the old MSG BOARDS... belive you me, theres quite a few of you that have change your tune as far as building though the draft..I always knew that building through the draft was a straight crap shoot...

No matter how you look at it, almost all of our draft picks have been traded for ethier cap space or players...Im almost certain that TD and chandler will be the next ones to get ship out for better talent, it's just a matter of time.

I was a proponent of drafting young players ever since the MSG days, but to me, the best way to rebuild is to have a GM who is savy at ALL of drafting, free agency AND trading, as well as finding the right coach. Afterall, when you're relying on the draft and purely the draft, it's all unknown, so you really could be rebuilding for YEARS, as the Bulls did before they traded Crawford and Curry to some idiot team. Are we really willing to suck for more and more years or are we ready to use our assets to put a team together. I think Walsh did best work he could have done this Summer, although I still oppose that Jared for TMac trade, even though it worked out.

Rebuilding comes in many shapes and forms.

AnubisADL wrote:- Sucking and hoarding draft picks allows one to make trades for star players. Most stars arent changing teams through Free Agency.

like Bosh, Lebron, Amare, Shaq, Grant Hill, Steve Nash, TMac... we could do this all day. Its easier to sign one than trade one, because teams want a kings ransom for their star players. Thats why you sign Melo instead of depleating your team of talent and picks to get him

- Rebuilding teams remain flexible by giving deals that are movable in the future. Amare's 100 million dollar contract is not going to be movable especially since it is uninsured. Did I mention Amare will be 28 this November and has had mircrofracture surgery. We are basically stuck with Amare until the end of his contract. We can only hope he can stay healthy and not require surgery.

Coming from the guy who wanted to trade for Gilbert Arenas. Amare has had 4 healthy years in a row and hasnt missed time because of his knee. How many healthy years does he have to have before its a non issue? 10? 1000? The guy is very durable.

I just basically see rebuilding as a team that is not trying to win now but instead building for the future and playing their young guys heavy minutes.

Marv wrote:

skeng wrote:

firefly wrote:

Panos wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

skeng wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:At least there is no longer anyone on this site that will argue with me that the team is not rbuilding. Walsh has proven that heis a smart dude he knows eventually if you are going to win you need true leadership. Age of that leader does not matter, but you do need a leader. If amare and felton etc don't produce a couple leaders I guarantee that walsh will try to find one in the next year or so(remember he went after Kidd last year). This is a similar promise to when I told you we would get younger and that walsh understands the importance of height. Unfortunately we are rebuilding and sometimes you have to wait to acqire one or wait for one to emerge.

The team isnt rebuilding. You dont sign Amare to a 100 million deal if you are rebuilding when you have 2 young forwards.

dude, you bring down the collect IQ of this site and forums by a LOT.

+1

+2

I guess Amare can't influence these two guys in a positive way..

+3. More thought, please. Less emotion.

I don't think its nice to be ganging up on Bip like that.

If he wants respect, maybe he should post more.

I wasn't knocking Bip. I was disagreeing with Anubis. Amare's influence on the team, especially Randolph, could be huge. Amare has overcome some tough mf'ing obstacles - his upbringing, micro fracture, eye problems. That shows character. Having a guy like that pushing you in practice and being a strong presence on the team doesn't inhibit one's development, imho.

Also, isn't Bip a female? I was of the belief that we we're adressing Anubis, hence the "dude" from Martin's post.

chill. she's sensitive about gender issues.

looks like skeng wont be getting an invite to the annual party at bip's house.......

Bippity10 wrote:

jimimou wrote:

Marv wrote:

skeng wrote:

firefly wrote:

Panos wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

skeng wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:At least there is no longer anyone on this site that will argue with me that the team is not rbuilding. Walsh has proven that heis a smart dude he knows eventually if you are going to win you need true leadership. Age of that leader does not matter, but you do need a leader. If amare and felton etc don't produce a couple leaders I guarantee that walsh will try to find one in the next year or so(remember he went after Kidd last year). This is a similar promise to when I told you we would get younger and that walsh understands the importance of height. Unfortunately we are rebuilding and sometimes you have to wait to acqire one or wait for one to emerge.

The team isnt rebuilding. You dont sign Amare to a 100 million deal if you are rebuilding when you have 2 young forwards.

dude, you bring down the collect IQ of this site and forums by a LOT.

+1

+2

I guess Amare can't influence these two guys in a positive way..

+3. More thought, please. Less emotion.

I don't think its nice to be ganging up on Bip like that.

If he wants respect, maybe he should post more.

I wasn't knocking Bip. I was disagreeing with Anubis. Amare's influence on the team, especially Randolph, could be huge. Amare has overcome some tough mf'ing obstacles - his upbringing, micro fracture, eye problems. That shows character. Having a guy like that pushing you in practice and being a strong presence on the team doesn't inhibit one's development, imho.

Also, isn't Bip a female? I was of the belief that we we're adressing Anubis, hence the "dude" from Martin's post.

chill. she's sensitive about gender issues.

looks like skeng wont be getting an invite to the annual party at bip's house.......

Nope

Plenty of parties over here anyway..

Olbrannon wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:One last thing, after this summer, and after the trades made by Boston, and the trade/free agent moves by the Lakers to acquire Shaq and Kobe, and the trades by Detroit to get Rip and Ben and Chauncey, I find it hard to believe that someone would say that the draft is the only way to build a winner.

It's funny you say this, cause if I could pull up some of the post from the old MSG BOARDS... belive you me, theres quite a few of you that have change your tune as far as building though the draft..I always knew that building through the draft was a straight crap shoot...

No matter how you look at it, almost all of our draft picks have been traded for ethier cap space or players...Im almost certain that TD and chandler will be the next ones to get ship out for better talent, it's just a matter of time.

I was a proponent of drafting young players ever since the MSG days, but to me, the best way to rebuild is to have a GM who is savy at ALL of drafting, free agency AND trading, as well as finding the right coach. Afterall, when you're relying on the draft and purely the draft, it's all unknown, so you really could be rebuilding for YEARS, as the Bulls did before they traded Crawford and Curry to some idiot team. Are we really willing to suck for more and more years or are we ready to use our assets to put a team together. I think Walsh did best work he could have done this Summer, although I still oppose that Jared for TMac trade, even though it worked out.

Rebuilding comes in many shapes and forms.

Knicks makes another good point. Those people that only like players fromt he draft fail to take into account that former gms traded away a good amount of our picks. Rebuilding through the draft only would have taken another 10 years. Lebron,boozer, amare, bosh all left. Paul and anthony are demanding trades and yet there are still people years behind the curve that say you can only get stars in the draft

Now ran across the critically acclaimed article notable quotes-

"You couldn't come up with a better two-word eulogy for the Seven Seconds or Less Era (or S.S.O.L. Era) in Phoenix: Critically acclaimed.
Maybe the Suns didn't win a championship, but we'll remember them 100 times more fondly than the brutally efficient and hopelessly bland Spurs, who taught everyone over the years that the regular season doesn't matter, transformed the NBA playoffs into a flopathon, revived the vile and fan-unfriendly Hack-A-Shaq strategy and did everything short of sending Bruce Bowen out on the court with a chainsaw and a taser. If the Spurs were the Team of the Decade, no wonder ratings dwindled until the league's big comeback this season. The real shame is that all the mugging, acting, eye-rolling, flopping, rule-bending and hysterical shrugging obscured what should have been remembered as a throwback sports team, a shrewdly assembled roster of well-coached guys who played beautifully together, didn't care about credit and revolved around the best power forward who ever played. Instead, we'll remember them as the team that turned the NBA playoffs into the World Cup. Congratulations, fellas."

So expect entertaining. Never at a loss for words he continues outlining mistakes made by Houston

"Mistake No. 1: Re-read Marc Stein's post-mortem from August 2005 to properly refresh your memory about the Joe Johnson fiasco. That's right -- fiasco. Phoenix's relationship with Johnson deteriorated so badly that he directly asked Sarver not to match Atlanta's $70 million offer -- which he didn't -- leading to the devastating trade of Johnson for Boris Diaw and two future first-rounders. (Note: In that aforementioned "What If's" column, I partially excused the Suns because Johnson wanted to leave, forgetting how they drove him away until a few bitter Suns fans refreshed my memory.)"

"Mistake No. 1: For financial reasons, they traded the No. 21 pick (Rajon Rondo) to Boston along with Brian Grant's contract (chopping $1.9 million from their 2007 payroll) for the rights to Cleveland's 2007 first-round pick. This was a double whammy because they acquired that Rondo pick two years before by giving up the No. 7 pick in the 2004 draft (for luxury tax reasons). So if you're scoring at home, they downgraded from "Luol Deng or Andre Iguodala in 2004" to "Rondo in 2006" to "selling the No. 24 pick in 2007 for cash" (we'll get to that in a second) ... which means that, effectively, they traded a No. 7 pick in a loaded draft for $4.9 million. Phoenix fans, you may now light yourselves on fire."

Hmmm so d'Antoni chooses Walsh in NY and $24 mill. over Sarver. Seems a no-brainer to me.

Much as they were missing going into July it would seem that Walsh has done an excellent job of addressing ...everything. Especially if Mozgov pans out and can manage to run like d'A wants.

misterearl wrote:Howard Beck and The Answer Man Are facebook Friends

...(the Knicks roster) is also young, and unproven in key areas, with an average age of 24.6 (the seventh-youngest roster in the league, according to an analysis by Newsday). After Stoudemire, the Knicks’ most promising players are three of their youngest: Randolph (21), Danilo Gallinari (22) and Wilson Chandler (23).

Felton, Stoudemire and Gallinari will almost certainly take three of the five starting jobs. But there is no clear choice at center (where Turiaf, Mozgov and perhaps Eddy Curry will compete for minutes) or at shooting guard (where Mason and Chandler will probably share time until Azubuike is healthy).

Just about every other spot in the rotation will be up for grabs when the Knicks open their preseason in Milan on Oct. 3. It could take several weeks for the new players to acclimate to one another, and perhaps 15 to 20 games for D’Antoni to figure out which combinations work best.

Patience, of course, does not come easily to a fan base worn down by nine straight losing seasons. Stoudemire’s arrival raises expectations, which in turn will raise the level of pressure on D’Antoni to produce a winner this season, his third in New York. (He will be the first person to coach the Knicks on three straight opening nights since Jeff Van Gundy.)

Yet in a practical sense, this is not Year 3 for the Walsh-D’Antoni administration, but Year 1 — and perhaps it should be evaluated that way."
- Beck, NYT

knicks1248 wrote:

misterearl wrote:Howard Beck and The Answer Man Are facebook Friends

...(the Knicks roster) is also young, and unproven in key areas, with an average age of 24.6 (the seventh-youngest roster in the league, according to an analysis by Newsday). After Stoudemire, the Knicks’ most promising players are three of their youngest: Randolph (21), Danilo Gallinari (22) and Wilson Chandler (23).

Felton, Stoudemire and Gallinari will almost certainly take three of the five starting jobs. But there is no clear choice at center (where Turiaf, Mozgov and perhaps Eddy Curry will compete for minutes) or at shooting guard (where Mason and Chandler will probably share time until Azubuike is healthy).

Just about every other spot in the rotation will be up for grabs when the Knicks open their preseason in Milan on Oct. 3. It could take several weeks for the new players to acclimate to one another, and perhaps 15 to 20 games for D’Antoni to figure out which combinations work best.

Patience, of course, does not come easily to a fan base worn down by nine straight losing seasons. Stoudemire’s arrival raises expectations, which in turn will raise the level of pressure on D’Antoni to produce a winner this season, his third in New York. (He will be the first person to coach the Knicks on three straight opening nights since Jeff Van Gundy.)

Yet in a practical sense, this is not Year 3 for the Walsh-D’Antoni administration, but Year 1 — and perhaps it should be evaluated that way."

- Beck, NYT

Thats BS, this roster came into camp excited about the up incoming season and playing for MDA (in year 1) and started out reletively respectable...had they kept them together for the most part, we would have had assets (value was increasing), to make real trades instead of cap clearing trades, draft picks, and a slew of movable 1 year contracts.

But we had to sit through 2 years of pure embarrasment (year 1 being the most embarassing). In year 2, instead of going to HERTZ, they went RENT a WRECK, and aquired the most disgruntel players they could find, we couldn't Sign and trade any of them except for david lee, who blossom and was the only bright spot in the entire organization.

skeng wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:

jimimou wrote:

Marv wrote:

skeng wrote:

firefly wrote:

Panos wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

skeng wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:At least there is no longer anyone on this site that will argue with me that the team is not rbuilding. Walsh has proven that heis a smart dude he knows eventually if you are going to win you need true leadership. Age of that leader does not matter, but you do need a leader. If amare and felton etc don't produce a couple leaders I guarantee that walsh will try to find one in the next year or so(remember he went after Kidd last year). This is a similar promise to when I told you we would get younger and that walsh understands the importance of height. Unfortunately we are rebuilding and sometimes you have to wait to acqire one or wait for one to emerge.

The team isnt rebuilding. You dont sign Amare to a 100 million deal if you are rebuilding when you have 2 young forwards.

dude, you bring down the collect IQ of this site and forums by a LOT.

+1

+2

I guess Amare can't influence these two guys in a positive way..

+3. More thought, please. Less emotion.

I don't think its nice to be ganging up on Bip like that.

If he wants respect, maybe he should post more.

I wasn't knocking Bip. I was disagreeing with Anubis. Amare's influence on the team, especially Randolph, could be huge. Amare has overcome some tough mf'ing obstacles - his upbringing, micro fracture, eye problems. That shows character. Having a guy like that pushing you in practice and being a strong presence on the team doesn't inhibit one's development, imho.

Also, isn't Bip a female? I was of the belief that we we're adressing Anubis, hence the "dude" from Martin's post.

chill. she's sensitive about gender issues.

looks like skeng wont be getting an invite to the annual party at bip's house.......

Nope

Plenty of parties over here anyway..

Bippity get together>plenty of parties over here

Bippity10 wrote:

skeng wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:

jimimou wrote:

Marv wrote:

skeng wrote:

firefly wrote:

Panos wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

skeng wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:At least there is no longer anyone on this site that will argue with me that the team is not rbuilding. Walsh has proven that heis a smart dude he knows eventually if you are going to win you need true leadership. Age of that leader does not matter, but you do need a leader. If amare and felton etc don't produce a couple leaders I guarantee that walsh will try to find one in the next year or so(remember he went after Kidd last year). This is a similar promise to when I told you we would get younger and that walsh understands the importance of height. Unfortunately we are rebuilding and sometimes you have to wait to acqire one or wait for one to emerge.

The team isnt rebuilding. You dont sign Amare to a 100 million deal if you are rebuilding when you have 2 young forwards.

dude, you bring down the collect IQ of this site and forums by a LOT.

+1

+2

I guess Amare can't influence these two guys in a positive way..

+3. More thought, please. Less emotion.

I don't think its nice to be ganging up on Bip like that.

If he wants respect, maybe he should post more.

I wasn't knocking Bip. I was disagreeing with Anubis. Amare's influence on the team, especially Randolph, could be huge. Amare has overcome some tough mf'ing obstacles - his upbringing, micro fracture, eye problems. That shows character. Having a guy like that pushing you in practice and being a strong presence on the team doesn't inhibit one's development, imho.

Also, isn't Bip a female? I was of the belief that we we're adressing Anubis, hence the "dude" from Martin's post.

chill. she's sensitive about gender issues.

looks like skeng wont be getting an invite to the annual party at bip's house.......

Nope

Plenty of parties over here anyway..

Bippity get together>plenty of parties over here

Do I still have the bathtub and an Allan Houston jersey to pass out in? :-P

Landry Fields, a second-round pick in June, will also surprise people with his athleticism."

Landry Fields, a second-round pick in June, will also surprise people with his athleticism.

Landry Fields, a second-round pick in June, will also surprise people with his athleticism.