AnubisADL wrote:

tkf wrote:I understand Kroenke's postion here. As an owner of several sports franchises and big corporations he is not going to get bullied by a bunch of clown middlemen and agents. These owners have to protect their interest, they draft players, pay them well, try to surround them with good talent at a huge expense and then all of a sudden guys want to jump up and leave to be close to home, near their families, to play with their homies.. I mean when does it end.... On the other hand, I do think the players at some point should have the right to chose where they want to play , and that is when they are a Free agent.. for melo, it is next year.. play out this year melo and you can go where ever you want bro... Trying to bully teams is becomming a trend I am not sure I like..

It isnt really bullying. I think Melo making it known to the front office that he plans on leaving helps them try to get value for him. He could play the season and bounce at the end of the season and leave Denver with NOTHING. Regardless he can do whatever he wants in less than 10 months.

Melo giving them a heads up lets both parties try to get what they want.

That's actually a pretty fair point..What warning did Lebron ever give Gilbert in Cleveland that he was leaving? Dude didn't even have the decency to call his owner to give him a heads up until 15 mins. before his "decision" and then it wasn't even LeBron who called but a member of his team...That was wrong and even if he came to the Knicks, I would've gone on the record as saying that was wrong..He made that whole situation into one big awkward spectacle and I don't blame Gilbert and the Cleveland fans for being upset with how it was handled. I don't think Melo is going about it like that at all..

Finestrg wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Do not want to give up Gallo or AR + have Anthony with a 25mm $ contract that shuts us down. I want to stay the course and build a nice deep team that will go for 10+ years. I only pray that the Knicks do this.

I'm interested in putting together a club that will challenge Miami for a trip to the Finals...That's it..Nothing else..And I wanna put that together ASAP while Amar'e Stoudemire is still at the top of his game.

5 - Amar'e
4 - Randolph
3 - Melo
2 - Azubuike/Fields/Mason
1 - Ray Felton/Douglas/Rautins

I'm not saying that team automatically beats Miami but it can stand toe to toe with them or pretty damn close.

- Amar'e can stand toe to toe with Bosh and we can win that matchup some nights.
- Melo can stand toe to toe with LeBron and we can win that matchup some nights (Carmelo proved it last year).
- A combination of Felton/Azubuike/Fields/Mason doesn't equal Wade by any stretch but it should make him work hard and keep him occupied on both ends the whole game.
- Randolph's the big wild card that should be in our favor..Who matches up with him on the Heat? Udonis Haslem? Jarvis Varnado? He's actually going to play in Europe this year from what I just read..Who else? 400 lb. Dexter Pittman??

I take my chances with that team...That's a good squad we could have potentially..And suppose we ever finished the regular season with a better record than the Heat? With that squad it could happen...Why not?? Suppose the Heat won 60 games but we won 61...Anything can happen, the NBA season is a long season. That would mean home court advantage in a playoff series...Just a couple of things to consider..

Sorry, but blowing your wad on Melo doesnt = 60 wins. He's never won 60 w/ some loaded teams in Denver, why is he doing it here.

If you goal is to beat a team like Miami getting Melo isnt getting it done. I thing Amare (easily) wins the Bosh matchup. After that? Wade and Lebron will destroy Melo and Felton in a 7 game series. Melo just isnt in the same class as those guys.

IF you want to beat a star loaded team like Miami the only way to do it is build a TEAM that can smother you on BOTH ends of the court and on the glass as well.

You do that with SIZE and SKILL. Just like Detroit did against the Lakers a few years ago.

Gallo and Randolph arent stars (yet), but they are the kind of player you need to build a team like I am talking about. You have 3 gays who are 6'10 and can play 2-3 different positions at any time, that can give you problems on both ends of the court.

You also need great defense. Gallo has already shown he's dedicated to defending. AR has first team NBA potential. You talking about a guy w/ a PG's handle who can push the ball up the floor, but can also block shots and rebound with anyone.

You trade AR+Gallo for Anthony and you just signed up for 5 years of 48-52 wins and maybe a trip or two to the ECF only to get beat by one of the 2-3 teams that are better than you every year.

I'll pass and work on something better.

Melo plays ZERO defense.

Finestrg wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Do not want to give up Gallo or AR + have Anthony with a 25mm $ contract that shuts us down. I want to stay the course and build a nice deep team that will go for 10+ years. I only pray that the Knicks do this.

I'm interested in putting together a club that will challenge Miami for a trip to the Finals...That's it..Nothing else..And I wanna put that together ASAP while Amar'e Stoudemire is still at the top of his game.

5 - Amar'e
4 - Randolph
3 - Melo
2 - Azubuike/Fields/Mason
1 - Ray Felton/Douglas/Rautins

I'm not saying that team automatically beats Miami but it can stand toe to toe with them or pretty damn close.

- Amar'e can stand toe to toe with Bosh and we can win that matchup some nights.
- Melo can stand toe to toe with LeBron and we can win that matchup some nights (Carmelo proved it last year).
- A combination of Felton/Azubuike/Fields/Mason doesn't equal Wade by any stretch but it should make him work hard and keep him occupied on both ends the whole game.
- Randolph's the big wild card that should be in our favor..Who matches up with him on the Heat? Udonis Haslem? Jarvis Varnado? He's actually going to play in Europe this year from what I just read..Who else? 400 lb. Dexter Pittman??

I take my chances with that team...That's a good squad we could have potentially..And suppose we ever finished the regular season with a better record than the Heat? With that squad it could happen...Why not?? Suppose the Heat won 60 games but we won 61...Anything can happen, the NBA season is a long season. That would mean home court advantage in a playoff series...Just a couple of things to consider..

Amare wont be going toe to toe with Bosh in your scenario, he'll be going toe to toe with Shaq and Jermaine O'Neal if he's playing Center vs Miami.

We won't be getting very far with Amare at center, he needs to play at his natural position for us to get the most out of him and for us to succeed.

iSergio wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Do not want to give up Gallo or AR + have Anthony with a 25mm $ contract that shuts us down. I want to stay the course and build a nice deep team that will go for 10+ years. I only pray that the Knicks do this.

I'm interested in putting together a club that will challenge Miami for a trip to the Finals...That's it..Nothing else..And I wanna put that together ASAP while Amar'e Stoudemire is still at the top of his game.

5 - Amar'e
4 - Randolph
3 - Melo
2 - Azubuike/Fields/Mason
1 - Ray Felton/Douglas/Rautins

I'm not saying that team automatically beats Miami but it can stand toe to toe with them or pretty damn close.

- Amar'e can stand toe to toe with Bosh and we can win that matchup some nights.
- Melo can stand toe to toe with LeBron and we can win that matchup some nights (Carmelo proved it last year).
- A combination of Felton/Azubuike/Fields/Mason doesn't equal Wade by any stretch but it should make him work hard and keep him occupied on both ends the whole game.
- Randolph's the big wild card that should be in our favor..Who matches up with him on the Heat? Udonis Haslem? Jarvis Varnado? He's actually going to play in Europe this year from what I just read..Who else? 400 lb. Dexter Pittman??

I take my chances with that team...That's a good squad we could have potentially..And suppose we ever finished the regular season with a better record than the Heat? With that squad it could happen...Why not?? Suppose the Heat won 60 games but we won 61...Anything can happen, the NBA season is a long season. That would mean home court advantage in a playoff series...Just a couple of things to consider..

Some here are not interested in winning 60 games with Stars. They don't want to be the Boston Celtics, Los Angeles Lakers or Miami Heat. They want to be the Portland Trail Blazers, Golden State Warriors and Los Angeles Clippers and hope to win 45 games with a bunch of young players.

I admire the teams you mentioned just as much as anyone, I really do..I love teams that are built on young talent..But there comes a point where you have to sit back and survey the competition and ask yourself are we good enough to compete against this team, against that team... Are we good enough to get to a Finals? Good enough to win it all? That's got to be the goal everyday until you finally get there, otherwise what's the point?? We already went through more than a decade (the entire Pat Ewing era) of fielding a good team that was never good enough to win it all..I wanna finally see my team compete for the big one..Miami is the new king of the hill and they set the bar very high..Now it's up to us to do what we have to do to level the playing field. That's how I look at it..I for one don't want to sit by and watch these smug, arrogant dudes in South Beach win it all year after year..I wanna challange these guys. We already have 1 big component in place in Amar'e and quite a few other decent pieces..If you tell be I might have a chance to add another big component, I'm interested..I'm interested because I wanna beat Miami now.

knickstorrents wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Do not want to give up Gallo or AR + have Anthony with a 25mm $ contract that shuts us down. I want to stay the course and build a nice deep team that will go for 10+ years. I only pray that the Knicks do this.

I'm interested in putting together a club that will challenge Miami for a trip to the Finals...That's it..Nothing else..And I wanna put that together ASAP while Amar'e Stoudemire is still at the top of his game.

5 - Amar'e
4 - Randolph
3 - Melo
2 - Azubuike/Fields/Mason
1 - Ray Felton/Douglas/Rautins

I'm not saying that team automatically beats Miami but it can stand toe to toe with them or pretty damn close.

- Amar'e can stand toe to toe with Bosh and we can win that matchup some nights.
- Melo can stand toe to toe with LeBron and we can win that matchup some nights (Carmelo proved it last year).
- A combination of Felton/Azubuike/Fields/Mason doesn't equal Wade by any stretch but it should make him work hard and keep him occupied on both ends the whole game.
- Randolph's the big wild card that should be in our favor..Who matches up with him on the Heat? Udonis Haslem? Jarvis Varnado? He's actually going to play in Europe this year from what I just read..Who else? 400 lb. Dexter Pittman??

I take my chances with that team...That's a good squad we could have potentially..And suppose we ever finished the regular season with a better record than the Heat? With that squad it could happen...Why not?? Suppose the Heat won 60 games but we won 61...Anything can happen, the NBA season is a long season. That would mean home court advantage in a playoff series...Just a couple of things to consider..

Amare wont be going toe to toe with Bosh in your scenario, he'll be going toe to toe with Shaq and Jermaine O'Neal if he's playing Center vs Miami.

We won't be getting very far with Amare at center, he needs to play at his natural position for us to get the most out of him and for us to succeed.

I don't agree..And Shaq and Jermaine O'Neal play in Boston btw, not Miami..

tkf wrote:I understand Kroenke's postion here. As an owner of several sports franchises and big corporations he is not going to get bullied by a bunch of clown middlemen and agents. These owners have to protect their interest, they draft players, pay them well, try to surround them with good talent at a huge expense and then all of a sudden guys want to jump up and leave to be close to home, near their families, to play with their homies.. I mean when does it end.... On the other hand, I do think the players at some point should have the right to chose where they want to play , and that is when they are a Free agent.. for melo, it is next year.. play out this year melo and you can go where ever you want bro... Trying to bully teams is becomming a trend I am not sure I like..

They can trade him to anybody who will give them the best deal...It's clearly obvious that he won't do the locker room any justice by playing out the year..

What if he gets hurt, then the franchise is screwed lovely, this situation has pretty much come to a head, why prolong whats bound to happen, and lose out in the long run.

It's a catch 22 when the franchise is hand cuff into making a deal with a up incoming FA thats a super star and unwilling to sign an extension..at his point they need to cut there loses early.
This isn't a case of the franchise winning out or losing out on a trade. there going to lose anyway you look at it, it's the degree of the lose that matters at this point.

AnubisADL wrote:What do you guys think of the following deal?

Randolph, Gallo, Turiaf, Azuibuke, Curry, and picks
FOR
Carmelo and Nene

- Deal gives Denver alot of 2011 cap relief and jump starts their rebuilding with a core of Randolph, Gallo, and Lawson. It also assures they will be collecting a 2011 lottery pick.

- Knicks give up some youth and spare parts and brings back a starting quality center.

Knicks:

Nene
Amare
Melo
Chandler
Felton

I think you can get away with starting Chandler at SG because Melo can light it up.

Hell no. An injury prone Nene to top it off. Yeah, AR has had some injuries, but his ceiling is so much higher. It's not even worth giving up both Gallo and AR in this trade.

Allanfan20 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:What do you guys think of the following deal?

Randolph, Gallo, Turiaf, Azuibuke, Curry, and picks
FOR
Carmelo and Nene

- Deal gives Denver alot of 2011 cap relief and jump starts their rebuilding with a core of Randolph, Gallo, and Lawson. It also assures they will be collecting a 2011 lottery pick.

- Knicks give up some youth and spare parts and brings back a starting quality center.

Knicks:

Nene
Amare
Melo
Chandler
Felton

I think you can get away with starting Chandler at SG because Melo can light it up.

Hell no. An injury prone Nene to top it off. Yeah, AR has had some injuries, but his ceiling is so much higher. It's not even worth giving up both Gallo and AR in this trade.

I agree. That's much too much...If I were Donnie, I draw a line in the sand and stand by it -- Gallo/Chandler/2014 1st rounder/Curry's expiring contract for Melo -- take it or leave it...Not interested at all in dealing Anthony Randolph..This young dude's ceiling is through the stratosphere..To me, AR and as crazy as it sounds, Landry Fields, are untouchable right now. But that's me...They are off the table in an Melo discussion..

iSergio wrote:Let's say Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler and Anthony Randolph become and develope to the level of Detlef Schrempf, Corey Maggette and Tayshaun Prince (which is the most realistic scenario). You wouldn't trade these 2 of these 3 for Melo?

Which one of the three is Detlef Schrempf?

Marv wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

fishmike wrote:Me too. I want to challenge Miami also and win titles, which is exactly why I DONT want Melo.

Sorry, but blowing your wad on Melo doesnt = 60 wins. He's never won 60 w/ some loaded teams in Denver, why is he doing it here.

If you goal is to beat a team like Miami getting Melo isnt getting it done. I thing Amare (easily) wins the Bosh matchup. After that? Wade and Lebron will destroy Melo and Felton in a 7 game series. Melo just isnt in the same class as those guys.

IF you want to beat a star loaded team like Miami the only way to do it is build a TEAM that can smother you on BOTH ends of the court and on the glass as well.

You do that with SIZE and SKILL. Just like Detroit did against the Lakers a few years ago.

Gallo and Randolph arent stars (yet), but they are the kind of player you need to build a team like I am talking about. You have 3 gays who are 6'10 and can play 2-3 different positions at any time, that can give you problems on both ends of the court.

You also need great defense. Gallo has already shown he's dedicated to defending. AR has first team NBA potential. You talking about a guy w/ a PG's handle who can push the ball up the floor, but can also block shots and rebound with anyone.

You trade AR+Gallo for Anthony and you just signed up for 5 years of 48-52 wins and maybe a trip or two to the ECF only to get beat by one of the 2-3 teams that are better than you every year.

I'll pass and work on something better.

Melo plays ZERO defense.

- Melo played in the West which is a tougher conference to begin with

- Melo isnt better than Lebron or Wade but he is close. Who else that is attainable can hold a candle to those guys?

- Detroit won 1 championship. The Lakers had Shaq and Kobe and Gasol and Kobe when they won.

- Obviously Carmelo needs to step up his defense but his offensive game is superior to Lebron's and Wade's which helps compensate.

bwahahahahaha!!

And Detroit won a championship. Yes.. thats the point. They one a title and went to 7 games against the Lakers the next year in the finals. The point is a team that didnt have superstars beat Shaq/Kobe in their prime.

Melo isnt remotely close to Lebron. Melo isnt even an all star every year, Lebron is a 2 time MVP. Wade is a finals MVP and one of the top 3-4 players. Melo isnt even top 10 right now.

You guys talk about Boston but that was built around KG who is an all star every year and won 2(?) MVPs. Melo isnt there. He's proven in Denver he's complimentary.

I'm not saying Gallo and AR better than Anthony, but the logical thing to do is to see how good they will be, at least if you want to win titles.

If your cool watching a dozen or so playoff games every year then sure... get Melo. He Amare/Felton will be good enough to beat the Chicago, Mil, Atlanta caliber teams in the east. Orl, Bos and Mia? Not close. Sorry

iSergio wrote:Carmelo Anthony is obviously not as good as LeCon but he's one of few players who can go toe to toe and shot for shot against him. And Melo is 8-4 in his career against LeCon. That should count for something.

Let's say Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler and Anthony Randolph become and develope to the level of Detlef Schrempf, Corey Maggette and Tayshaun Prince (which is the most realistic scenario). You wouldn't trade these 2 of these 3 for Melo?

No thanks. For Lebron? Yes. For Wade? Yes. Melo isnt a top 10 player. Most like top 20, and he's not making the other guys around him better. Its not like we already have a 25 year old Tim Duncan and need a scorer to put next to him. Melo is like 2 steps forward, 4 steps back. Better short term but its a 50 win ceiling team. Been there done that