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what's van horn still doing here?
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HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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1/21/2004  2:06 PM
Zeke wants to put together the best roster possible.

Thomas, who won a national title in college and two N.B.A. championships as a player, is not satisfied with the illusion of contention. A playoff berth and an exciting second-round exit does not excite him. That is why he refuses to sit back and let the new Knicks jell, even though they have won four straight games.

Thomas wants to bring New York a title, and he knows a team with a core of Stephon Marbury, Houston and Van Horn will not deliver one. So why stop the overhaul now?

"Having been a player and also been a coach, you always want to be the best and you always strive to be the best," Thomas said yesterday in a telephone interview. "And our players demand that I try to keep improving the team to be the best. Until you're the best, you're always trying to improve."

Asked if he worries about tinkering too much too soon with the Knicks, Thomas responded quickly and succinctly, "No."

- From Chris Broussard's 1/21 NY Times article
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
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WOODMANnYk
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1/21/2004  7:41 PM
HE's here playing SF. for the New York Knicks
The Future. GO KNICKS!
WOODMANnYk
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1/21/2004  7:46 PM
HE's playing SF for the New York Knicks...
The Future. GO KNICKS!
GoNyGoNyGo
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1/22/2004  8:39 AM
From the last 2 games he played, it is obvious that KVH has to go. The man is too inconsistent. When his shot is off, that is it. There is nothing more to him. Honestly the same can be said of H2O. That is why SPREE was and still is the better player of the 3. He does it all and rarely has a night where his D, O, bounding and passing are off. He usually brings at least one to the game every night.

The thing is, with these last 2 games, KVH's trade value went back down.

NY needs an athletic big man, they always have. Who can it be now?
Snowman
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1/22/2004  9:44 AM
The whole team played bad last night !! Why blame KVH ??? Marbury missed plenty of shots aswell as H2O & KT !!! Harrington killed us the whole game !!! I almost hope that KVH gets traded just to SHUT some of you guys up who thinks he is the reason we lose !!
What does DICK CHANEY & DON CHANEY have in common ?? They both accidentally fell into a job they don't deserve & really suck at doing it !!!! Both need to be fired !!!
djsunyc
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1/22/2004  10:02 AM
Posted by GoNyGoNyGo:

From the last 2 games he played, it is obvious that KVH has to go. The man is too inconsistent. When his shot is off, that is it. There is nothing more to him. Honestly the same can be said of H2O. That is why SPREE was and still is the better player of the 3. He does it all and rarely has a night where his D, O, bounding and passing are off. He usually brings at least one to the game every night.

The thing is, with these last 2 games, KVH's trade value went back down.

NY needs an athletic big man, they always have. Who can it be now?

i agree with mostly everyone here that isiah is not a kvh fan at all. but i also think kvh is an ASSET and not a liability. i think isiah definitely wants an athletic post player here, but i don't think it's going to happen this season. i hope he doesn't make a panic move and trade away both frank and sweets in a deal for rasheed. trading for rasheed is a HUGE HUGE HUGE gamble and an even bigger question mark and i can't see trading kvh for him as a viable option. i mean have you ever seen an interview with rasheed? he's a rabid idiot. i can't believe 1/2 the stuff he says, and i can't believe he actuall thinks he's right!

if you ask me, the person that NEEDS to get traded is kurt. he does put up solid #'s, but if there's anyone that dissappears and contributes absolutely nothing if his jumper isn't falling, it's kurt. bad fouls, no defense - just look at what mo taylor did last night. kurt is the PERFECT backup PF/C but we need a player that jump and run the break from the 4 spot and the longer kurt is on this team, the longer we're not going to be able to make that next step.
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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1/22/2004  10:44 AM
KVH is an asset all right...a trade asset. Zeke better cash in that bargaining chip before it loses its luster.

We need improvement badly in the front line. How many games will it take for some people to see this?

If Keith Van Horn can't hit his shot, what good is he on the floor? How many players have we watched blow past KVH and his "tenacious" D? Opposing teams focus the strengths of their offense against the weak link in our defense- Van Horn. That cat is GARBAGE when his shot ain't falling. What else does he do besides turn the goddamn ball over in every way known to man like he did last night? How many rebounds did he grab??? It's not a phenomenon, fellas. It's the main reason so many fans (like me) knock him- consistent inconsistency. Some of us have been saying this since the Spree trade. GoNY brought up a good point about how Spree was multi-faceted
enough to still be able to contribute when his shot was off. There was still solid to tight D, a few boards, steals, a few assists and alot of intangibles- the fire, passion, and the sheer will to contribute enough to win.

Stephon is the same way regarding what I said about Spree. We all know he can score, but he is so good at dishing the ball, he doesn't have to shoot the rock (IMO he's gonna start shooting more). He's the best passer on the team. He plays tough D, and will get his share of steals. He is intense, and the most clutch player we have.

Again, I ask, when KVH's shot is not falling, WTF does he really do?

This same criticism can be applied to Allan Houston also- to a lesser degree.

We need to obtain players who are multi-faceted, multi-talented and are more balanced with both offensive and defensive skills. We especially need it in the frontcourt.

Zeke, make it happen. Get it done. Pull the trigger...

[Edited by - HARDCOREKNICKSFAN on 01/22/2004 10:46:30]
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
knickgeek
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1/22/2004  11:00 AM
Keith's liabilities are well known throughout the league. Some fans (yeah - like me) hoped that he could develop more consistency. He does seem to have improved his D - at least he's not fouling out every game.

The question is, given his known liabillities, who will take him?
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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1/22/2004  11:14 AM
KVH is alot easier to trade than stiffs like Eisley and Spoon, who are already gone.

Have faith in Messiah Thomas.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
Snowman
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1/22/2004  11:21 AM
The biggest joke is not the illusion on KVH being traded ( which he will not ), The biggest joke is the so called fans who beraid him constantly when he is performing very well !!! For that " I LAUGH AT YOU " !!!!!
What does DICK CHANEY & DON CHANEY have in common ?? They both accidentally fell into a job they don't deserve & really suck at doing it !!!! Both need to be fired !!!
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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1/22/2004  11:27 AM
Posted by Snowman:

The biggest joke is not the illusion on KVH being traded ( which he will not ), The biggest joke is the so called fans who beraid him constantly when he is performing very well !!! For that " I LAUGH AT YOU " !!!!!

That post is the pie I will smash in your face when ya boy KVH is TRADED.

Get your wee-wee pads ready, K9. You're gonna need 'em. LMAO
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
Snowman
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1/22/2004  11:51 AM
CORE, listen, We move KVH like you like you want for RASHWEED, then what ??? Penny is not a scorer & H2O is not healthy. Where does the offense come from ??? You should be well aware that the Blazers will want KT in the package aswell !!!! So we lose both ??? Come bro your smarter than that !!! Now you know i can work the numbers better than anyone on REALGM !!! The only trade between both teams would be KVH, DEKE & KT for WALLACE & PATTERSON ( you know they will want to get rid of patterson's contract ) Trade id # 1435105 !!! Then what ??? You get your precious wallace with what left ??? No draft picks, no center, no small forward !!! ROFL..... Please talk to me son !!!
What does DICK CHANEY & DON CHANEY have in common ?? They both accidentally fell into a job they don't deserve & really suck at doing it !!!! Both need to be fired !!!
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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1/22/2004  12:38 PM
Posted by Snowman:

CORE, listen, We move KVH like you like you want for RASHWEED, then what ???
Then we have more of a force inside, on both offense and defense.

Penny is not a scorer & H2O is not healthy.
IMO Penny would be more of a scorer if he started. After a trade like #1435157 that swaps KVH and Othella for Sheed, we could start penny @ the 3 and Sheed at the 4. We can even play him @ the 5 since SHeed could play any frontcourt position in the East.

Where does the offense come from ???
Starbury, Allan, Sheed, KT, and Penny.

You should be well aware that the Blazers will want KT in the package aswell !!!!
In that case, check out #1435176, which helps us out in the frontcourt significantly.

So we lose both ??? Come bro your smarter than that !!!
KT is in a contract year, so we will have upgraded the 4. KVH just gotta go. Straight up. I am smart enough to know that we styill need to make changes to the front line, bruh.

Now you know i can work the numbers better than anyone on REALGM !!!
Oh yeah, K9 the numbers cruncher. The one who bypasses the NBA rules to get his trades to work. LOL DOn't think I forgot about that Penny thing.

The only trade between both teams would be KVH, DEKE & KT for WALLACE & PATTERSON ( you know they will want to get rid of patterson's contract ) Trade id # 1435105 !!!
Why the hell would that be the "only" trade they's make?? Have you heard the rumored proposals so far? Right there is where you blew your point. Take off the blinders, yo. The spectrum is much broader than that.

Then what ??? You get your precious wallace with what left ???
We'll still have enough to perform. The idea of the trade is to get better at key positions.

No draft picks, no center, no small forward !!!
Draft picks won't be necessary if we get this team more athletic, and balanced skillwise. We'll still have a center if we keep Deke, we can play Penny @ the 3, have Sheed in the low blocks (which is where he'll be assigned playing here) and be better.

ROFL..... Please talk to me son !!!

There it is, pahtna!
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
Silverfuel
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1/22/2004  12:43 PM
Posted by knickgeek:

Keith's liabilities are well known throughout the league. Some fans (yeah - like me) hoped that he could develop more consistency. He does seem to have improved his D - at least he's not fouling out every game.

The question is, given his known liabillities, who will take him?
KVH is not that bad and his liabilites certainly do not outweigh his production. I would trade him if someone good comes along but I dont want to just trade him to dump his salary anymore. If we are getting a better player at that position back then KVH should be gone.

I would trade him for Rasheed because Rashed is a lot more relaible on offense if he can stay out of Technical Fouls and other dump freaking horse****.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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1/23/2004  1:21 PM
Ever notice how little Isiah ever talks about Van Horn? Same with Lenny...
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
s3231
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1/23/2004  1:29 PM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

KVH is an asset all right...a trade asset. Zeke better cash in that bargaining chip before it loses its luster.

We need improvement badly in the front line. How many games will it take for some people to see this?

If Keith Van Horn can't hit his shot, what good is he on the floor? How many players have we watched blow past KVH and his "tenacious" D? Opposing teams focus the strengths of their offense against the weak link in our defense- Van Horn. That cat is GARBAGE when his shot ain't falling. What else does he do besides turn the goddamn ball over in every way known to man like he did last night? How many rebounds did he grab??? It's not a phenomenon, fellas. It's the main reason so many fans (like me) knock him- consistent inconsistency. Some of us have been saying this since the Spree trade. GoNY brought up a good point about how Spree was multi-faceted
enough to still be able to contribute when his shot was off. There was still solid to tight D, a few boards, steals, a few assists and alot of intangibles- the fire, passion, and the sheer will to contribute enough to win.

Stephon is the same way regarding what I said about Spree. We all know he can score, but he is so good at dishing the ball, he doesn't have to shoot the rock (IMO he's gonna start shooting more). He's the best passer on the team. He plays tough D, and will get his share of steals. He is intense, and the most clutch player we have.

Again, I ask, when KVH's shot is not falling, WTF does he really do?

This same criticism can be applied to Allan Houston also- to a lesser degree.

We need to obtain players who are multi-faceted, multi-talented and are more balanced with both offensive and defensive skills. We especially need it in the frontcourt.

Zeke, make it happen. Get it done. Pull the trigger...

[Edited by - HARDCOREKNICKSFAN on 01/22/2004 10:46:30]
Exactly, we got to deal him while his value is still up. We need a big-man at the PF position a lot more than we need a SF. I think Zeke should try to land Wallace one more time w/o including Van Horn, then if they say no I think we put Van Horn in there and land Sheed. Plus, we would have a rejuvenated Penny at the SF position who is a smart player and won't make many mistakes. If worst comes to worst, Sheed can even play the SF position. I say we trade Van Horn (while still keeping Kurt) and you will see a big improvement from this team.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
NYK8
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1/23/2004  2:05 PM
C'mon Starbury can fill in the scoring for KVH.Starbury isn't even commited to the scoring game yet.He is busy tryin to change his style of play for the benefit of the team.This is what Zeke wants to see first if he willing to step up as a leader to improve the KNICKS.Which he did not do for either team nets,suns by means of passing first then look out for himself.But once one of our scores is traded he'll step up and Wallace is going to tear the roof off.He's most def going to bring in that down low scoring threat.
!!!Knicks!!!
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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1/23/2004  4:00 PM
Good point, NYK8. being minus one scorer, Starbury would have more room to steph up pointswise.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
Killa4luv
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1/23/2004  11:46 PM
this whole thread is making me sick. KVH started slow but has been playing better than any knick this year, period. He has been our most consistant player. He is not the best but he works well with what we have and he is definitely our most diverse player.

He scores in the paint, shoots well lon and mid range, posts well, dunks on cats, what do you effing guys want him to do?

I think many of you follow a certain logic that reads like a kool-aid package: add "big-name" player into team and mix.

THis is just not how TEAMS win. Unless that bigname player is someone like Jason Kidd or Magic Johnson who elevates the level of play of his teamates. Rasheed Wallace behaves like a crack baby (literally) and he is not a winner.

Has everyone forgotten that he was the best player on the portland team that imploded in the 4th quarter against the lakers in the western conference finals. It was HIS job to make them win and he didn't.

Furthermore, while we are all familiar with his low post abilities, he has gone the way of Dan Marlie (I know I spelled it wrong stop sweatin me) He thinks he is a 3-point specialist now. I don't want him. We don't need a big name with a big contract, and big effing bag of bull**** to go along with it.

We need a roleplayer type big man. 10 and 10. Post somebody up, block a shot grab a rebound. what i loved about Steph coming here is that you already knew he WANTED to be here. That makes all of the difference in the world, because that means he will do whatever is asked of him. Whatever it takes to win.

Is Rasheed going to do that? Has he ever displayed any willingness on his part to control his emotions for the good of the team? NO! He gets technical fouls arguing with the refs when the whole entire world knows he just fouled someone!! You guys who think he is what we need, are out of your minds and obviously do not know much about the game of basketball.

KVH is just fine here (and that is from someone who was real lukewarm on him when he first arrived)
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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1/24/2004  12:06 AM
Read the arguments above your post. That long-winded statement carries no real weight.

Next time just save yourself the trouble of typing all the lip service, and just say "I like KVH and don't want to see him traded".
It's much more concise that way.

That's what postas that really have basketball knowledge do.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
what's van horn still doing here?

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