Then the intangible improvement is the makeup of the roster. Young but seasoned vets everywhere. Very good size n length everywhere and quite possibly the most athletic team in the East save for Miami.

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:Fish, don't think Felton isn't a question mark either. Can he grasp the system, can he have another productive season after his first true productive season last year. Now he is changing systems can he still have the same results? I don't know and no one knows until it is proven. This is a 36 win team at best until proven otherwise.
As far as Gallo and Chandler they are solid players but they have to take the next step and take their game to higher level. I'm expecting that to happen but if they don't they are the same player as last year and that isn't going to cut it. Between AR, Chandler and Gallo these guys have to step it up if the Knicks are to win more than 40+ games. Amare won't be able to do it on his own he is going to need someone to step up and be consistent with him night in and night out.

As of now I am saying 36 wins. For me it all about whether Gallo, Chandler and AR take it up a notch in their games. If they don't do it 36 at best.

again. You chuck that out there like its fact. So allow me to retort. This is a 45 win team until proven otherwise, probably more if a few feasable things break their way.

Chandler and Gallo are already good rotation guys. Felton is a good PG and you have a 5 time all star in the frontcourt.

I keep waiting for you to tell me the reason the Knicks will lose 46 games.

Size? defense? Coaching? Healthy?

Funny how people think teams like Chi got much better and all they did is give up their best perimeter defender and shooter for a guy who is only healthy and plays hard in contract years.

Also the East didnt really get better. Miami got better. Boston got more bodies (can you imagine if the Knicks were going to rely on Shaq and Jermaine for anything????). Toronto got much worse. Cle is a 15 win team. Cha took a step back losing their PG (Jordan is a worse GM than Isiah).

I agree there may be an adjustment period, etc, but the Knicks have too much size, skill, defense and scoring to play .400 ball. You also have a coach who has always done well when he's got his players as well.

Sorry- that is a bold statement!

Sorry, we're a 29 win team until proven otherwise. We are what our record is.

Or, lets go back and average out the number of wins this squad has put up in the last 5 years.

28 win team.

The Knicks are a new team essentially. We have 3 rotation guys from last year coming back in Gallo, Douglas and Chandler. Maybe Walker gets burn but he's a fringe bench guy and isnt impacting my W/L projection.

Literally everything that was wrong with last year's 30 win team is improved on. Size, defense, playmaking, speed, athleticism.. everything.

VMart I am NOT saying 45 win team if everything breaks right. I am saying thats the win total the talent on this roster should produce barring injuries.

Here's a question for you. Last year Char won 44 games. Go look at their roster. Diaw, Gerald Wallace, Felton and Stephen Jackson are the main guys.

True or false?
Knicks have more talent than last year's Bobcats team.

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:Fish, don't think Felton isn't a question mark either. Can he grasp the system, can he have another productive season after his first true productive season last year. Now he is changing systems can he still have the same results? I don't know and no one knows until it is proven. This is a 36 win team at best until proven otherwise.
As far as Gallo and Chandler they are solid players but they have to take the next step and take their game to higher level. I'm expecting that to happen but if they don't they are the same player as last year and that isn't going to cut it. Between AR, Chandler and Gallo these guys have to step it up if the Knicks are to win more than 40+ games. Amare won't be able to do it on his own he is going to need someone to step up and be consistent with him night in and night out.

As of now I am saying 36 wins. For me it all about whether Gallo, Chandler and AR take it up a notch in their games. If they don't do it 36 at best.

again. You chuck that out there like its fact. So allow me to retort. This is a 45 win team until proven otherwise, probably more if a few feasable things break their way.

Chandler and Gallo are already good rotation guys. Felton is a good PG and you have a 5 time all star in the frontcourt.

I keep waiting for you to tell me the reason the Knicks will lose 46 games.

Size? defense? Coaching? Healthy?

Funny how people think teams like Chi got much better and all they did is give up their best perimeter defender and shooter for a guy who is only healthy and plays hard in contract years.

Also the East didnt really get better. Miami got better. Boston got more bodies (can you imagine if the Knicks were going to rely on Shaq and Jermaine for anything????). Toronto got much worse. Cle is a 15 win team. Cha took a step back losing their PG (Jordan is a worse GM than Isiah).

I agree there may be an adjustment period, etc, but the Knicks have too much size, skill, defense and scoring to play .400 ball. You also have a coach who has always done well when he's got his players as well.

Sorry- that is a bold statement!

Sorry, we're a 29 win team until proven otherwise. We are what our record is.

Or, lets go back and average out the number of wins this squad has put up in the last 5 years.

28 win team.

so if we got Lebron are we will a 30 win team because we are what our record says we are? I dont see how you upgrade every position on the roster except SG and you are what you are. Makes ZERO sense to me.

The Knicks are a new team essentially. We have 3 rotation guys from last year coming back in Gallo, Douglas and Chandler. Maybe Walker gets burn but he's a fringe bench guy and isnt impacting my W/L projection.

Literally everything that was wrong with last year's 30 win team is improved on. Size, defense, playmaking, speed, athleticism.. everything.

VMart I am NOT saying 45 win team if everything breaks right. I am saying thats the win total the talent on this roster should produce barring injuries.

Here's a question for you. Last year Char won 44 games. Go look at their roster. Diaw, Gerald Wallace, Felton and Stephen Jackson are the main guys.

True or false?
Knicks have more talent than last year's Bobcats team.

undecided....sorry for the wish wash but, talent aside, lb can coach the pants off of dantoni. dantoni doesnt get charlotte into the playoffs last year.

While there are certainly some guys coming off injuries (all the GS guys) and some guys we hope improve like Douglas, Chandler and Gallo I'm just calling it like I see it.

I wasnt the biggest Felton fan but my biggest knock on him in the past was he wasnt good enough if he was going to cost us one of the max guys we were looking to add.

But he's in the top 3rd of the league's PGs. He's very tough and also plays good defense. Also anytime we got decent, not great, just solid PG play from Duhon last 2 years we won games so in many ways with MDA here this is the biggest addition.

To me you stick one of the better PGs in the league on both ends of the floor with an elite bigman and add solid role players/rotation guys which Chandler, Gallo, Randolph, Turiaf, Azu, Douglas are your winning about 45 games in this league at least. If some of those younger rotation/role players blossum your total goes up, but I'm not getting my 45 wins based on those guys exploding or doing something nobody expects them to do. Gallo shoots, Chandler play hard and fill out the stat sheet, Douglas score and defend off the bench, Turiaf defend the post for 15 minutes a night... etc etc

If there is any x factor is Randolph. He's already shown he can be a bigtime shotblocker. He's got a sick handle and he can shoot it and throw it down on anyone. If he and Gallo hit their 'upside' this is a title caliber frontcourt but I'm not even going there. I'm happy to watch a winning team again (for now)

TMS wrote:if we can't win 41 games this year, there's something severely wrong with how the team is being coached... they easily have the talent to win at least that many games... it's up to MDA to get these guys playing winning basketball now, or at least non-LOSING basketball... no more excuses.

I agree. This team now has shot-blockers, a competent pg, and a low-post scorer good enough to draw double-teams. I see no reason we should not get to 41 wins unless we suffer major injuries to key players. If MDA cannot get this team to 41 wins, barring injuries, then we really need to start to question whether he is the right coach.

fishmike wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

jimimou wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:Fish, don't think Felton isn't a question mark either. Can he grasp the system, can he have another productive season after his first true productive season last year. Now he is changing systems can he still have the same results? I don't know and no one knows until it is proven. This is a 36 win team at best until proven otherwise.
As far as Gallo and Chandler they are solid players but they have to take the next step and take their game to higher level. I'm expecting that to happen but if they don't they are the same player as last year and that isn't going to cut it. Between AR, Chandler and Gallo these guys have to step it up if the Knicks are to win more than 40+ games. Amare won't be able to do it on his own he is going to need someone to step up and be consistent with him night in and night out.

As of now I am saying 36 wins. For me it all about whether Gallo, Chandler and AR take it up a notch in their games. If they don't do it 36 at best.

again. You chuck that out there like its fact. So allow me to retort. This is a 45 win team until proven otherwise, probably more if a few feasable things break their way.

Chandler and Gallo are already good rotation guys. Felton is a good PG and you have a 5 time all star in the frontcourt.

I keep waiting for you to tell me the reason the Knicks will lose 46 games.

Size? defense? Coaching? Healthy?

Funny how people think teams like Chi got much better and all they did is give up their best perimeter defender and shooter for a guy who is only healthy and plays hard in contract years.

Also the East didnt really get better. Miami got better. Boston got more bodies (can you imagine if the Knicks were going to rely on Shaq and Jermaine for anything????). Toronto got much worse. Cle is a 15 win team. Cha took a step back losing their PG (Jordan is a worse GM than Isiah).

I agree there may be an adjustment period, etc, but the Knicks have too much size, skill, defense and scoring to play .400 ball. You also have a coach who has always done well when he's got his players as well.

Sorry- that is a bold statement!

Sorry, we're a 29 win team until proven otherwise. We are what our record is.

Or, lets go back and average out the number of wins this squad has put up in the last 5 years.

28 win team.

so if we got Lebron are we will a 30 win team because we are what our record says we are? I dont see how you upgrade every position on the roster except SG and you are what you are. Makes ZERO sense to me.

The Knicks are a new team essentially. We have 3 rotation guys from last year coming back in Gallo, Douglas and Chandler. Maybe Walker gets burn but he's a fringe bench guy and isnt impacting my W/L projection.

Literally everything that was wrong with last year's 30 win team is improved on. Size, defense, playmaking, speed, athleticism.. everything.

VMart I am NOT saying 45 win team if everything breaks right. I am saying thats the win total the talent on this roster should produce barring injuries.

Here's a question for you. Last year Char won 44 games. Go look at their roster. Diaw, Gerald Wallace, Felton and Stephen Jackson are the main guys.

True or false?
Knicks have more talent than last year's Bobcats team.

undecided....sorry for the wish wash but, talent aside, lb can coach the pants off of dantoni. dantoni doesnt get charlotte into the playoffs last year.

Comparing team rosters on paper isn't enough to decide which team is better.

Charlotte was a top flight defensive team last year. The Knicks were amongst the worst.

This has more to do with coaching and team defense than it does just looking at the names on the rosters.

excellent point.

Are the Knicks a vastly improved defensive team this year or not?

Its about the players. Did Boris Diaw play better defense for Larry last year than he did for MDA in Pho? Suns won 50+ games with Diaw at center when Amare was out. Dude played awesome on both ends under DAntoni that year. Raja Bell, Kurt Thomas, Amare, Diaw, Marion... there is a reason MDA's Suns played better defense than Gentry's Suns last year. Know why? MDA had better defensive players.

Its really that simple.

If Lee and Harrington are your bigmen your not going to be a good defensive team.

jrzy... when you look at this roster do you see pieces that fit together or not?

Felton, Amare, Chandler, Gallo, Turiaf, Douglas, Randolph... whoever your project starting 5 are next year are all either good defensive players or at least play hard there (I wouldnt call Gallo a good defensive player but clearly he plays hard there, watches video, is dedicated to improve).

Is it safe to assume we will be a better defensive team because of this?

I think the Knicks will be a little better defensively this year, it wont be a significant improvement imo. Like I said before, the coaching philosophy just isn't designed to emphasize it. D'antoni doesn't put a premium on it, therefore you can't expect the players to. Felton and Amar'e are good upgrades on that side of the basketball however. Amar'e isn't great, but Lee was flat out awful.

To answer your question Fish - I see these pieces fitting nicely together as a unit. We have guys on the roster that can play multiple positions, which improves our depth tremendously. Its safe to say we'll be a better OFFENSIVE team because of this.

I've said this before in a previous thread. The Knicks will have to win a lot more games with their offense rather than their defense because the team is constructed to score the ball, as opposed to preventing the opponent from scoring.

Panos wrote:

franco12 wrote:
Sorry, we're a 29 win team until proven otherwise. We are what our record is.

Or, lets go back and average out the number of wins this squad has put up in the last 5 years.

28 win team.

Our record last year has ABSOLUTELY ZERO to do with the record this coming year.
The team is completely different.

True, but I think what Franco12 is saying is that the burden of proof lies with this team. If they win 45 games Super! But till they can prove that is an attainable target we shouldn't indulge in statements like the one from Fish. As a franchise we have been a 28 W team for ever and a day. The perception will only change when real results are delivered. On paper we are definitely capable of getting more wins this year. I think the 41 W number TMS uses is a good one.

franco12 wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Panos wrote:

franco12 wrote:
Sorry, we're a 29 win team until proven otherwise. We are what our record is.

Or, lets go back and average out the number of wins this squad has put up in the last 5 years.

28 win team.

Our record last year has ABSOLUTELY ZERO to do with the record this coming year.
The team is completely different.

True, but I think what Franco12 is saying is that the burden of proof lies with this team. If they win 45 games Super! But till they can prove that is an attainable target we shouldn't indulge in statements like the one from Fish. As a franchise we have been a 28 W team for ever and a day. The perception will only change when real results are delivered. On paper we are definitely capable of getting more wins this year. I think the 41 W number TMS uses is a good one.

Exactly- and for several years, off season moves would be made (Curry, Crawford, etc) and everyone would get excited, and then we'd win 33 games.

I can see this team being a really good team, if things come together. But, I just think its going to take a year.

I like Amare, but I don't think he is so good that he can single-handily change the direction of the franchise like a lebron could.

Hey, if they prove me wrong, great.

If that one year to gell means a 40+ win record and a 7th or 8th seed, then Knicks fans would be pretty content. However, if they're idea of taking one year to coexist outputs a 35 win season and a non existent playoff berth, than things are going to get pretty ugly from top to bottom. You can bet your dollar fingers will be pointed from Isiah Thomas to Amar'e. And as much as Knicks fans have endured the past decade, this would be dreadful.

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

franco12 wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Panos wrote:

franco12 wrote:
Sorry, we're a 29 win team until proven otherwise. We are what our record is.

Or, lets go back and average out the number of wins this squad has put up in the last 5 years.

28 win team.

Our record last year has ABSOLUTELY ZERO to do with the record this coming year.
The team is completely different.

True, but I think what Franco12 is saying is that the burden of proof lies with this team. If they win 45 games Super! But till they can prove that is an attainable target we shouldn't indulge in statements like the one from Fish. As a franchise we have been a 28 W team for ever and a day. The perception will only change when real results are delivered. On paper we are definitely capable of getting more wins this year. I think the 41 W number TMS uses is a good one.

Exactly- and for several years, off season moves would be made (Curry, Crawford, etc) and everyone would get excited, and then we'd win 33 games.

I can see this team being a really good team, if things come together. But, I just think its going to take a year.

I like Amare, but I don't think he is so good that he can single-handily change the direction of the franchise like a lebron could.

Hey, if they prove me wrong, great.

If that one year to gell means a 40+ win record and a 7th or 8th seed, then Knicks fans would be pretty content. However, if they're idea of taking one year to coexist outputs a 35 win season and a non existent playoff berth, than things are going to get pretty ugly from top to bottom. You can bet your dollar fingers will be pointed from Isiah Thomas to Amar'e. And as much as Knicks fans have endured the past decade, this would be dreadful.

I think the biggest question mark on this season is D'Antoni. He mailed it in last year, IMHO. I believe he is a good coach, but I don't think we've seen him in his two years really work hard on getting production out of all his guys.

If he has trouble relating to AR- does he sit in the dog house?

If guys don't grasp the subtleties of his offense, will he adjust quickly enough, dumb things down until guys get it? Put in maybe some set plays to run.

And is he going to be more aggressive on defense? Sorry, switching 100% of the time sends the wrong message, I think, to players.