WindsorPl wrote:

martin wrote:

WindsorPl wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

TMS wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

TMS wrote:he will be traded

Yes, I think Briggs is right that all these contract talks with shannon Brown and then trade speculation means that sooner or later he will be one. I wish it wasn't so, would love to see him at least get in one full year with this roster and w/o injury issues.

IMO Donnie is in amassing young assets & expiring contracts mode & getting prepared for possible blockbuster deals in the next 2 years... i got nothing against that plan, i think it's a solid plan of action & one that i have been advocating we do for quite some time... i just hope he doesn't let Wilson go with the hope of signing Melo next summer, which to me would be a stupid move to make... you don't give up a player w/Wilson's type of talent unless you know for sure you got the star player coming back in the process, whether that player be CP3, Melo or someone else.

I'm not entirely sure, but I think we'll wind up going about this exactly like we did with D Lee --- say Melo commits to the Knicks, then and only then will Wilson either be involved in the S&T to get him OR simply allowed to expire with no QO extended..I would think that, like Lee, he'll remain under our control up until the point where we either trade him or renouncing him in favor of a committed upgrade...If I'm wrong then my bad but it sounds like you might be thinking another Jordan Hill/Jeffries/picks gamble trade where there's the risk of no immediate/big-time pay off in the end...I envision something closer to the way we handled Lee. Right up until the end, Lee remained an option for us to bring back.

The only reason we got Randolph was because we had the bird rights to Lee. Trading Chandler before the season in a deal where we get the inferior talent would be as short-sighted as the due diligence the Knicks did on Lebron James.

True. The lust over Lebron cost the Knicks Hill and 2 picks. I wonder how much the lust over Melo is going to cost. Like "The decision" never happened.

you would have kept Hill and Jefferies and not pursued LeBron, etc?

If what's reported is true, that the 3 amigos hatched this up in Beijing during the olympics and it was known around the league, why would anyone do it?
A lot of people back then said that Walsh must have had a signal from the Lebron camp to make that trade, because it was too much for 10 mil of cap space. Chicago got rid of Hinrich contract (about 10 mil cap hit)for 1 first round pick.
I will give Walsh great credit for the offseason acquisitions, I am not as worried about the picks as I was back in the spring.

martin wrote:

WindsorPl wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

TMS wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

TMS wrote:he will be traded

Yes, I think Briggs is right that all these contract talks with shannon Brown and then trade speculation means that sooner or later he will be one. I wish it wasn't so, would love to see him at least get in one full year with this roster and w/o injury issues.

IMO Donnie is in amassing young assets & expiring contracts mode & getting prepared for possible blockbuster deals in the next 2 years... i got nothing against that plan, i think it's a solid plan of action & one that i have been advocating we do for quite some time... i just hope he doesn't let Wilson go with the hope of signing Melo next summer, which to me would be a stupid move to make... you don't give up a player w/Wilson's type of talent unless you know for sure you got the star player coming back in the process, whether that player be CP3, Melo or someone else.

I'm not entirely sure, but I think we'll wind up going about this exactly like we did with D Lee --- say Melo commits to the Knicks, then and only then will Wilson either be involved in the S&T to get him OR simply allowed to expire with no QO extended..I would think that, like Lee, he'll remain under our control up until the point where we either trade him or renouncing him in favor of a committed upgrade...If I'm wrong then my bad but it sounds like you might be thinking another Jordan Hill/Jeffries/picks gamble trade where there's the risk of no immediate/big-time pay off in the end...I envision something closer to the way we handled Lee. Right up until the end, Lee remained an option for us to bring back.

The only reason we got Randolph was because we had the bird rights to Lee. Trading Chandler before the season in a deal where we get the inferior talent would be as short-sighted as the due diligence the Knicks did on Lebron James.

True. The lust over Lebron cost the Knicks Hill and 2 picks. I wonder how much the lust over Melo is going to cost. Like "The decision" never happened.

you would have kept Hill and Jefferies and not pursued LeBron, etc?

That's exactly how I look at it Martin..I mean what did some of you think -- that we shouldn't have gone after the guy??? I love how some fans on this board act like they knew all along that LeBron was never coming here, that going to South Beach was some kind of done deal where Donnie should've known better and never wasted his time. Gimmie a break. Stop it. Come on man, if you followed this whole thing, you can plainly see that LeBron to South Beach was something that developed right at the end of the process...The way I saw it, there was a time there where it looked like Wade wasn't even going back to Miami and that the Heat stood to be the biggest losers in free agency...Walsh did what he had to do to put us in position where we were one of the few teams in on the conversation. LeBron wound up taking the easy way out and decided to hitch his wagon to a sure thing (Wade & Bosh), something I never believed the self-proclaimed 'King' would ever do even when guys like Chris Broussard, Stephen A. Smith, the fool from Yahoo sports and whoever else said it was a done deal (again, ONLY A DAY OR TWO BEFORE 'the decision'). Once I really stepped back and looked at the whole picture, I had no problem with anything Donnie did to put us in position --- dumping Jamal & Zach, not going after Ramon Sessions, making the Hill/Jeffries/picks trade, deciding against purchasing a late first rounder in order to preserve max cap room, landing Amar'e Stoudemire, etc. When you step back and look at it, it was all done with the right intention in mind --- we kept our eye on the prize the whole time...You gotta be in it to win it, bottom line. Overall, I think Donnie did a fine job and did what he had to do. I don't have any regrets now that I've had time to reflect on all of it. Time to move on now. The best part is that once the dust settled, Donnie's managed to put together a rather interesting & exciting young team for this year while also maintaining cap flexibility for the following off-season. The man did a fine job.

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Walsh was balking at what Morey wanted from the trade. I don't think he would make that trade if he had autonomy. I think Dolan came in and told him to make the deal.

I dont remember one hint of this type of thing occurring. nada.

Walsh was certainly in a tight spot, but for a long long while he was letting everyone know that he wanted to get as far under the cap as possible, and Hill and Jefferies were the last pieces to that puzzle (Curry was impossible to move).

February 15, 2010 9:42 PM 14 Comments
Knicks, Rockets talking McGrady »
By Frank Isola

The Knicks are denying reports that they are close to completing a trade for Tracy McGrady.

The complicated deal, reported by Yahoo! Sports, has the Knicks acquiring McGrady's $23 million expiring contract for Jared Jeffries, Jordan Hill and either Al Harrington or Larry Hughes.

The Knicks would also swap first round picks with the Rockets in 2011 and give away their 2012 first round pick. The Knicks apparently think the price is too steep. But with Thursday's trade deadline looming, that is more than enough time for the Knicks and Rockets to make a deal.

The feeling is that Houston is not just going to give McGrady away. The Knicks would love to do a deal that includes Jeffries because his contract runs through 2011. Trading Jeffries would enable the Knicks to sign two max free agents this summer.

It's a great deal for the Knicks if they can get either LeBron James or Dwyane Wade. If not, they wouldn't have much to build around in terms of young talent. Hill would be with Houston, the Jazz own the Knicks 2010 first round pick and the Rockets would get the Knicks picks in 2012

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/knicks/2010/02/knicks-rockets-talking-mcgrady.html#ixzz0vTq3uK7I

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Walsh was balking at what Morey wanted from the trade. I don't think he would make that trade if he had autonomy. I think Dolan came in and told him to make the deal.

I dont remember one hint of this type of thing occurring. nada.

Walsh was certainly in a tight spot, but for a long long while he was letting everyone know that he wanted to get as far under the cap as possible, and Hill and Jefferies were the last pieces to that puzzle (Curry was impossible to move).

February 15, 2010 9:42 PM 14 Comments
Knicks, Rockets talking McGrady »
By Frank Isola

The Knicks are denying reports that they are close to completing a trade for Tracy McGrady.

The complicated deal, reported by Yahoo! Sports, has the Knicks acquiring McGrady's $23 million expiring contract for Jared Jeffries, Jordan Hill and either Al Harrington or Larry Hughes.

The Knicks would also swap first round picks with the Rockets in 2011 and give away their 2012 first round pick. The Knicks apparently think the price is too steep. But with Thursday's trade deadline looming, that is more than enough time for the Knicks and Rockets to make a deal.

The feeling is that Houston is not just going to give McGrady away. The Knicks would love to do a deal that includes Jeffries because his contract runs through 2011. Trading Jeffries would enable the Knicks to sign two max free agents this summer.

It's a great deal for the Knicks if they can get either LeBron James or Dwyane Wade. If not, they wouldn't have much to build around in terms of young talent. Hill would be with Houston, the Jazz own the Knicks 2010 first round pick and the Rockets would get the Knicks picks in 2012

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/knicks/2010/02/knicks-rockets-talking-mcgrady.html#ixzz0vTq3uK7I

the part you bolded is the opinion of the author of the article. Where is the mention of Dolan? That's the part I question.

loweyecue wrote:Exactly what would the composition of our roster be if we didn't do the T-Mac trade and somehow still managed to sign Amare (Which I don't think would have been possible at all). Amare, Gallo, Chandler, Jeffries, TD, AR, Turiaf, Buike and Jordan Hill?

Jordan Hill and Jeffries enabled us to get a real PG instead of DuDu

loweyecue wrote:

TMS wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

TMS wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

TMS wrote:he will be traded

Yes, I think Briggs is right that all these contract talks with shannon Brown and then trade speculation means that sooner or later he will be one. I wish it wasn't so, would love to see him at least get in one full year with this roster and w/o injury issues.

IMO Donnie is in amassing young assets & expiring contracts mode & getting prepared for possible blockbuster deals in the next 2 years... i got nothing against that plan, i think it's a solid plan of action & one that i have been advocating we do for quite some time... i just hope he doesn't let Wilson go with the hope of signing Melo next summer, which to me would be a stupid move to make... you don't give up a player w/Wilson's type of talent unless you know for sure you got the star player coming back in the process, whether that player be CP3, Melo or someone else.

I'm not entirely sure, but I think we'll wind up going about this exactly like we did with D Lee --- say Melo commits to the Knicks, then and only then will Wilson either be involved in the S&T to get him OR simply allowed to expire with no QO extended..I would think that, like Lee, he'll remain under our control up until the point where we either trade him or renouncing him in favor of a committed upgrade...If I'm wrong then my bad but it sounds like you might be thinking another Jordan Hill/Jeffries/picks gamble trade where there's the risk of no immediate/big-time pay off in the end...I envision something closer to the way we handled Lee. Right up until the end, Lee remained an option for us to bring back.

the T-Mac trade is exactly what i want NOT to do... that was a horrible idea from the very beginning... if they're gonna be trading Wilson they better damn well make sure they get back a star talent in the process... no more dealing away assets on a hope & a prayer that some superstar is gonna sign here a year down the road.

Exactly what would the composition of our roster be if we didn't do the T-Mac trade and somehow still managed to sign Amare (Which I don't think would have been possible at all). Amare, Gallo, Chandler, Jeffries, TD, AR, Turiaf, Buike and Jordan Hill? And you would be happier with that team over this? I don't think this is the right way to look at it but it seems to be the accepted way of looking at things here. Jordan Hill and Jeffries enabled us to get a real PG instead of DuDu.

i could care less about Ray Felton... he is only here as a stopgap solution in my view... he's obviously a big upgrade over Duhon, but he's only keeping the position warm til the Knicks can go after either Tony Parker or CP3 in free agency, it's pretty obvious... regardless, we had the cap space to sign both Amare & Ray Felton this summer w/o making the T-Mac trade.

IMO having our draft pick in 2012 & not having given up swap rights for our 2011 (both of which people consistently seem to conveniently leave out whenever these discussions arise) along w/Jordan Hill & another expiring contract in Fishlips could have given DW more pieces to work deals with this summer or at the trade deadline.

Finestrg wrote:

martin wrote:

WindsorPl wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

TMS wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

TMS wrote:he will be traded

Yes, I think Briggs is right that all these contract talks with shannon Brown and then trade speculation means that sooner or later he will be one. I wish it wasn't so, would love to see him at least get in one full year with this roster and w/o injury issues.

IMO Donnie is in amassing young assets & expiring contracts mode & getting prepared for possible blockbuster deals in the next 2 years... i got nothing against that plan, i think it's a solid plan of action & one that i have been advocating we do for quite some time... i just hope he doesn't let Wilson go with the hope of signing Melo next summer, which to me would be a stupid move to make... you don't give up a player w/Wilson's type of talent unless you know for sure you got the star player coming back in the process, whether that player be CP3, Melo or someone else.

I'm not entirely sure, but I think we'll wind up going about this exactly like we did with D Lee --- say Melo commits to the Knicks, then and only then will Wilson either be involved in the S&T to get him OR simply allowed to expire with no QO extended..I would think that, like Lee, he'll remain under our control up until the point where we either trade him or renouncing him in favor of a committed upgrade...If I'm wrong then my bad but it sounds like you might be thinking another Jordan Hill/Jeffries/picks gamble trade where there's the risk of no immediate/big-time pay off in the end...I envision something closer to the way we handled Lee. Right up until the end, Lee remained an option for us to bring back.

The only reason we got Randolph was because we had the bird rights to Lee. Trading Chandler before the season in a deal where we get the inferior talent would be as short-sighted as the due diligence the Knicks did on Lebron James.

True. The lust over Lebron cost the Knicks Hill and 2 picks. I wonder how much the lust over Melo is going to cost. Like "The decision" never happened.

you would have kept Hill and Jefferies and not pursued LeBron, etc?

That's exactly how I look at it Martin..I mean what did some of you think -- that we shouldn't have gone after the guy??? I love how some fans on this board act like they knew all along that LeBron was never coming here, that going to South Beach was some kind of done deal where Donnie should've known better and never wasted his time. Gimmie a break. Stop it. Come on man, if you followed this whole thing, you can plainly see that LeBron to South Beach was something that developed right at the end of the process...The way I saw it, there was a time there where it looked like Wade wasn't even going back to Miami and that the Heat stood to be the biggest losers in free agency...Walsh did what he had to do to put us in position where we were one of the few teams in on the conversation. LeBron wound up taking the easy way out and decided to hitch his wagon to a sure thing (Wade & Bosh), something I never believed the self-proclaimed 'King' would ever do even when guys like Chris Broussard, Stephen A. Smith, the fool from Yahoo sports and whoever else said it was a done deal (again, ONLY A DAY OR TWO BEFORE 'the decision'). Once I really stepped back and looked at the whole picture, I had no problem with anything Donnie did to put us in position --- dumping Jamal & Zach, not going after Ramon Sessions, making the Hill/Jeffries/picks trade, deciding against purchasing a late first rounder in order to preserve max cap room, landing Amar'e Stoudemire, etc. When you step back and look at it, it was all done with the right intention in mind --- we kept our eye on the prize the whole time...You gotta be in it to win it, bottom line. Overall, I think Donnie did a fine job and did what he had to do. I don't have any regrets now that I've had time to reflect on all of it. Time to move on now. The best part is that once the dust settled, Donnie's managed to put together a rather interesting & exciting young team for this year while also maintaining cap flexibility for the following off-season. The man did a fine job.

For all the naysayers out there who felt Donnie was "short-sighted" & made mistakes clearing cap room in order to make a serious run at LeBron, take a good look at this article:

http://www.theknicksblog.com/2010/08/04/sources-lebrons-team-wanted-new-york/

Still think we did the wrong thing?? Fact of the matter is we were right there to get this guy, right to the bitter end and we owe it all to Donnie Walsh...I'm with Tommy Dee -- I'm ready to move on now with what we got as part of our plan B, happily I might add (again thanks to Donnie), but this article really makes you realize how close we were to getting him. We wouldn't have been part of the conversation if not for Donnie's patience and confidence in his own strategy. Specifically the Jeffries trade stands out in my mind, a move everyone seems to hate --- dumping Jeffries allowed us to bring in Amar'e AND have enough room left over to offer a full max contract to LeBron..If not for that move, we couldn't have offered the idea of BOTH Amar'e Stoudemire (who we need to offer max dollars to get) & max money to James..That move alone allowed us to be atop a very short list right at the end of the process..W/O that move the Knicks are never even in play. Best part of all is that once the dust settled, we went ahead and made the most of that 2nd max salary slot --- getting the 3 good players from GS (all with favorable contracts -- one of which could be a star in young Anthony Randolph...make that should be a star), a huge upgrade at the point and a promising 7 footer from Russia. Plus about 3 mil. left over to offer Shannon Brown or whoever else a contract...And our cap room is still intact for next year, once Curry finally comes off the books. Bottom line is I have no problem with anything that Donnie did. The man did a lot of good for this organization since he's been here. Respect...

Finestrg wrote:For all the naysayers out there who felt Donnie was "short-sighted" & made mistakes clearing cap room in order to make a serious run at LeBron, take a good look at this article:

http://www.theknicksblog.com/2010/08/04/sources-lebrons-team-wanted-new-york/

Still think we did the wrong thing?? Fact of the matter is we were right there to get this guy, right to the bitter end and we owe it all to Donnie Walsh...I'm with Tommy Dee -- I'm ready to move on now with what we got as part of our plan B, happily I might add (again thanks to Donnie), but this article really makes you realize how close we were to getting him. We wouldn't have been part of the conversation if not for Donnie's patience and confidence in his own strategy. Specifically the Jeffries trade stands out in my mind, a move everyone seems to hate --- dumping Jeffries allowed us to bring in Amar'e AND have enough room left over to offer a full max contract to LeBron..If not for that move, we couldn't have offered the idea of BOTH Amar'e Stoudemire (who we need to offer max dollars to get) & max money to James..That move alone allowed us to be atop a very short list right at the end of the process..W/O that move the Knicks are never even in play. Best part of all is that once the dust settled, we went ahead and made the most of that 2nd max salary slot --- getting the 3 good players from GS (all with favorable contracts -- one of which could be a star in young Anthony Randolph...make that should be a star), a huge upgrade at the point and a promising 7 footer from Russia. Plus about 3 mil. left over to offer Shannon Brown or whoever else a contract...And our cap room is still intact for next year, once Curry finally comes off the books. Bottom line is I have no problem with anything that Donnie did. The man did a lot of good for this organization since he's been here. Respect...

I don't trust Tommy Dee, his "sources" have not been right for 2 years.
But you are right, let's move on. Donnie did an excellent job with what he had in the offseason.

TMS wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

TMS wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

TMS wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

TMS wrote:he will be traded

Yes, I think Briggs is right that all these contract talks with shannon Brown and then trade speculation means that sooner or later he will be one. I wish it wasn't so, would love to see him at least get in one full year with this roster and w/o injury issues.

IMO Donnie is in amassing young assets & expiring contracts mode & getting prepared for possible blockbuster deals in the next 2 years... i got nothing against that plan, i think it's a solid plan of action & one that i have been advocating we do for quite some time... i just hope he doesn't let Wilson go with the hope of signing Melo next summer, which to me would be a stupid move to make... you don't give up a player w/Wilson's type of talent unless you know for sure you got the star player coming back in the process, whether that player be CP3, Melo or someone else.

I'm not entirely sure, but I think we'll wind up going about this exactly like we did with D Lee --- say Melo commits to the Knicks, then and only then will Wilson either be involved in the S&T to get him OR simply allowed to expire with no QO extended..I would think that, like Lee, he'll remain under our control up until the point where we either trade him or renouncing him in favor of a committed upgrade...If I'm wrong then my bad but it sounds like you might be thinking another Jordan Hill/Jeffries/picks gamble trade where there's the risk of no immediate/big-time pay off in the end...I envision something closer to the way we handled Lee. Right up until the end, Lee remained an option for us to bring back.

the T-Mac trade is exactly what i want NOT to do... that was a horrible idea from the very beginning... if they're gonna be trading Wilson they better damn well make sure they get back a star talent in the process... no more dealing away assets on a hope & a prayer that some superstar is gonna sign here a year down the road.

Exactly what would the composition of our roster be if we didn't do the T-Mac trade and somehow still managed to sign Amare (Which I don't think would have been possible at all). Amare, Gallo, Chandler, Jeffries, TD, AR, Turiaf, Buike and Jordan Hill? And you would be happier with that team over this? I don't think this is the right way to look at it but it seems to be the accepted way of looking at things here. Jordan Hill and Jeffries enabled us to get a real PG instead of DuDu.

i could care less about Ray Felton... he is only here as a stopgap solution in my view... he's obviously a big upgrade over Duhon, but he's only keeping the position warm til the Knicks can go after either Tony Parker or CP3 in free agency, it's pretty obvious... regardless, we had the cap space to sign both Amare & Ray Felton this summer w/o making the T-Mac trade.

IMO having our draft pick in 2012 & not having given up swap rights for our 2011 (both of which people consistently seem to conveniently leave out whenever these discussions arise) along w/Jordan Hill & another expiring contract in Fishlips could have given DW more pieces to work deals with this summer or at the trade deadline.

That was part of my question how would we pay for Felton and Amar'e without the Hill trade? I don't think we could unless someone shows me the math. Secondly there wouldn't be any talk about CP3/TonyP unless we already had that cap space and assets like Felton. So unless you are implying we could have traded Jeffries/Hill/and one pick for CP3, I don't see your point.