Paladin55 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Playa,
Labored for years? They had the best record the last few years. ITs not like the team sucked.

So are you saying that LeBron wasn't working on a plantation for Massa Gilbert?? You mean that LeBron didn't get pimped by his owner??

By the way, does anyone really believe that LeBron did not have some kind of hand in who the Cavs were adding around him?

Playa has to create a narrative for why James chose to leave. He has to blame someone else for LeBron's choice- LeBron can't seem to be the bad guy. In Playa's mind James needs a reason to turn his back on his team- Cleveland's ownership not doing its job- it can't be a failure on James' part, because if it was, he could not leave the Cavs on the terms he did.

Of course on another forum, Playa almost revels in the idea that Little James, Baby Bosh, and Big Daddy Wade had planned this for years. In essence, Playa validates Sangfroid's Scheme Team™ label, with no comment that Miami did nothing to build a contending team around Wade prior to a few weeks ago:

PLAYA 2U.....07-09-2010 06:14 PM (Knicks City)

How could Lebron go and play with his friends in a S&T deal that would have brought on anybody miami didn't want ?

Wade Bosh, and Himself talked about this at the olympics and knew the only way it would work is if those two waited it out and become unrestricted free agents.

This was the only way they could have got the three of them and added the players miami wanted to be there for the 2010 season.
Riley, Wade are winners, winners think ahead, Lebron is now about to grow up in the League bigtime and become a winner!

Here Playa is basically saying- "Hey, these 3 guys used their brains and Wade's relationship with Riley and Bosh to scheme their way into a situation that no owner or GM would have entered into without a guarantee that Bosh would follow Wade, and James would follow Wade and Bosh because he does not have the personal fortitude to go at it alone."

Here Playa does not really blame the Cavs, but seemingly gives credit to a plan that clearly involved collusion, IMO.

The simple fact is that just as he has taken his game down south to South Beach, James' legacy as a "great" has gone down south in a way that will forever diminish him as a player and, perhaps more importantly, as a man.

#1 you are pathetic.

Lebron knew Clevelands owner was just riding his coat tails into the millions of dollars, never really going out and getting real prime time players who was available to play alongside Lebron. Simply Lebron out thought his owner. Massa didn't know the war was going to be over soon, he just thought lebron was going to settle for sharecropping.

playa2 wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Playa,
Labored for years? They had the best record the last few years. ITs not like the team sucked.

So are you saying that LeBron wasn't working on a plantation for Massa Gilbert?? You mean that LeBron didn't get pimped by his owner??

By the way, does anyone really believe that LeBron did not have some kind of hand in who the Cavs were adding around him?

Playa has to create a narrative for why James chose to leave. He has to blame someone else for LeBron's choice- LeBron can't seem to be the bad guy. In Playa's mind James needs a reason to turn his back on his team- Cleveland's ownership not doing its job- it can't be a failure on James' part, because if it was, he could not leave the Cavs on the terms he did.

Of course on another forum, Playa almost revels in the idea that Little James, Baby Bosh, and Big Daddy Wade had planned this for years. In essence, Playa validates Sangfroid's Scheme Team™ label, with no comment that Miami did nothing to build a contending team around Wade prior to a few weeks ago:

PLAYA 2U.....07-09-2010 06:14 PM (Knicks City)

How could Lebron go and play with his friends in a S&T deal that would have brought on anybody miami didn't want ?

Wade Bosh, and Himself talked about this at the olympics and knew the only way it would work is if those two waited it out and become unrestricted free agents.

This was the only way they could have got the three of them and added the players miami wanted to be there for the 2010 season.
Riley, Wade are winners, winners think ahead, Lebron is now about to grow up in the League bigtime and become a winner!

Here Playa is basically saying- "Hey, these 3 guys used their brains and Wade's relationship with Riley and Bosh to scheme their way into a situation that no owner or GM would have entered into without a guarantee that Bosh would follow Wade, and James would follow Wade and Bosh because he does not have the personal fortitude to go at it alone."

Here Playa does not really blame the Cavs, but seemingly gives credit to a plan that clearly involved collusion, IMO.

The simple fact is that just as he has taken his game down south to South Beach, James' legacy as a "great" has gone down south in a way that will forever diminish him as a player and, perhaps more importantly, as a man.

#1 you are pathetic.

Lebron knew Clevelands owner was just riding his coat tails into the millions of dollars, never really going out and getting real prime time players who was available to play alongside Lebron. Simply Lebron out thought his owner. Massa didn't know the war was going to be over soon, he just thought lebron was going to settle for sharecropping.

I agree. With everything but the pathetic part.

Solace wrote:I can't fault LeBron for wanting to play as part of a team. But this definitely gives a poor sense of his personal ambitions and will to win. LeBron had a chance to go down as one of the greatest basketball players of all time, maybe the greatest ever. With his new team, there's no way that will happen. They may win championships, but he's going to be remembered as the guy who gave up his legacy because he couldn't win on his own, where other greats have done it. Jordan is 100% right in this case.

The saying is, "To be the man, you gotta beat the man." In this case, LeBron beat himself.

They'll beat some men, then they'll beat Kobe(the man?!?) and that is that. Three Musketeers go ! One for all and all for one ! Then Jordan will make a parody movie ala "Men in Tights" with the Musketeer theme. Then he'll come out of retirement for one year just to show them how its really done.

playa2 wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Playa,
Labored for years? They had the best record the last few years. ITs not like the team sucked.

So are you saying that LeBron wasn't working on a plantation for Massa Gilbert?? You mean that LeBron didn't get pimped by his owner??

By the way, does anyone really believe that LeBron did not have some kind of hand in who the Cavs were adding around him?

Playa has to create a narrative for why James chose to leave. He has to blame someone else for LeBron's choice- LeBron can't seem to be the bad guy. In Playa's mind James needs a reason to turn his back on his team- Cleveland's ownership not doing its job- it can't be a failure on James' part, because if it was, he could not leave the Cavs on the terms he did.

Of course on another forum, Playa almost revels in the idea that Little James, Baby Bosh, and Big Daddy Wade had planned this for years. In essence, Playa validates Sangfroid's Scheme Team™ label, with no comment that Miami did nothing to build a contending team around Wade prior to a few weeks ago:

PLAYA 2U.....07-09-2010 06:14 PM (Knicks City)

How could Lebron go and play with his friends in a S&T deal that would have brought on anybody miami didn't want ?

Wade Bosh, and Himself talked about this at the olympics and knew the only way it would work is if those two waited it out and become unrestricted free agents.

This was the only way they could have got the three of them and added the players miami wanted to be there for the 2010 season.
Riley, Wade are winners, winners think ahead, Lebron is now about to grow up in the League bigtime and become a winner!

Here Playa is basically saying- "Hey, these 3 guys used their brains and Wade's relationship with Riley and Bosh to scheme their way into a situation that no owner or GM would have entered into without a guarantee that Bosh would follow Wade, and James would follow Wade and Bosh because he does not have the personal fortitude to go at it alone."

Here Playa does not really blame the Cavs, but seemingly gives credit to a plan that clearly involved collusion, IMO.

The simple fact is that just as he has taken his game down south to South Beach, James' legacy as a "great" has gone down south in a way that will forever diminish him as a player and, perhaps more importantly, as a man.

#1 you are pathetic.

Lebron knew Clevelands owner was just riding his coat tails into the millions of dollars, never really going out and getting real prime time players who was available to play alongside Lebron. Simply Lebron out thought his owner. Massa didn't know the war was going to be over soon, he just thought lebron was going to settle for sharecropping.

I don't believe that, when they had free agent money they spent it on Larry Hughes, that ended up being a mistake as he played well that contract yr but kept getting injured with the Cavs. That move set them back yrs. They didn't really have the pieces to acquire any type of superstar talent so can't blame the owner for that. They did make moves for Shaq, Mo Williams, Jaimison. Its not like the owner did absolutely nothing to try and add talent for Lebron to play with. They should have drafted way better though. Taking Luke Jackson hurt the badly as that would be there last lottery pick. They missed Iguodala by one pick. They should have probably traded the lottery pick for a proven guy to play next to Lebron. What they have missed was an allstar PF/C in the mold of Gasol or Bosh.

playa2 wrote:#1 you are pathetic.

Lebron knew Clevelands owner was just riding his coat tails into the millions of dollars, never really going out and getting real prime time players who was available to play alongside Lebron. Simply Lebron out thought his owner. Massa didn't know the war was going to be over soon, he just thought lebron was going to settle for sharecropping.

Coming from you, I take your the first comment as a compliment- if I ever heard you agree with me I think I'd have to run to the RealGm Miami forum and hang with a winner team and become a winner fan. I do feel a bit sorry for you, because obviously a sore spot was touched upon.

As I said, you need to have a narrative which justifies your point of view that what James did was fine and noble and shows character. Everything has to follow from that for you. You are finding an argument for a conclusion given in advance.

How do any of us know what kind of talks James was having his Cavs officials over the years regarding where the team was going. Do you really think that James' opinion was not sought after regarding who the Cavs should pick up? Are you that obtuse?

The fact is that the Cavs had the best record in the league the last two years and James could not carry them over the top when it counted. Simple as that. He got them into a finals once prior to these years, without having to face any team in its prime, and then couldn't even squeeze out a win in the finals vs the Spurs. (About 22 PPG, 5 turnovers/gm, and a sterling 10/30 with 6 turnovers in a 4th game 1pt loss.)

The fact that you (and Jesse Jackson- who has had his own ethnically insensitive moments) bring up the Massa/Slave crap is actually more insulting to African Americans than Wade's callous comment about the WTC. You are actually equating the decimation of a continent- a period of time when so-called Christians enlaved their fellow man to the Cavs owner going over the top to express his anger over James not accepting what would have amounted to a Cavs offer of $120 M for his services? You consider that a master/slave relationship?

If I can borrow your analogy, James just bolted for another plantation, with Massa Riley being the owner and Wade his new overseer, who will make sure that LeBron gets to stay in the house and not do any heavy work in the field. The sad thing is that you are one of the few who fail to notice this.

Sangfroid wrote:

Nalod wrote:Lebron and Gilbert should have set upon a plan to look long term and rebuild instead of trying to plug up the team on the run like the knicks did with Ewing.

Few comparisons can be made when a player leaves but a player holding the team hostage and threating to leave is Ewing in his prime. He demanded better players, which he got but at a price and in 1996 had Don nelson fired 17 games into the season because Nellie was trying to phase him out and run more. Now we all Know Donnie gone coo coo for coco puffs but pre Mavs in an era of slow ball that system was very contrasting to the east and might have worked. Knicks buckled under ewings pending free agency threat and the rest is history.

Knicks didn't win, Ewing resigned and then starting falling apart, Nellie got canned and JVG installed the tough guy ball that riley had succeeded with and the knicks rebuild along lines of rule changes and an move to a faster game.

Both Lebron and Gilbert handled it bad, but in this day and age Lebron was under huge pressure to win and when offered the opportinity he bolted.

IN a way I think what the elders are saying it dilutes the championship value by colluding with other star players.

Barkley never won it and Jordan who says very little about anything does not want his image diluted either.

I respect Mike but we talking Jordan here who I believe would have done similar.

Sorry, can't agree. As much as I hated Jordan, I can say he got his championships the "old fashion way", HE EARNED THEM!! He played with the Bulls before he won anything, came back to them after his "retirement" and when he did change teams, he didn't align himself with a team of all-stars to prepetuate his goal of more rings.

yea, I agree, jordan was just a different cat, as was all of those other stars back then. Now way I could see jordan leaving, especially as long as the bulls were making an attempt to give him what he needed to win.

The cavs worked and tried to give lebron everything he needed, it wasn't like they didn't try, heck that team won 60+ games...

watching jordan cry like a baby when he won that first title pretty much put things into perspective for me.. this guy stuck it out, losing to the pistons, boston and finally getting that ring after years of playoff exits... It was all about the struggle..

tkf wrote:Glory, of the true kind, will always escape LeBron. The great players from the past see what he did and know that he will never belong with them. Leaving your franchise well past your prime is one thing, but leaving the way he did from his home town, with unfinished business and a very strange performance in his Cavs playoff swansong, is entirely different.
Regarding the Cav's draft: I assume that they traded most of their picks because since James came over, it looks like they only had a few.

the bolded part right there is what bothers me and I am sure the owner about this whole thing.. looking at the playoff performace, it looked like lebron figured that they were not going to beat "the old" celtics, that they were not going to quit and it seems as if lebron quit.. looking back at everything, one could ask? when did lebron really check out? I think it calls his integrity into question, as well as his "will to win " when things get tough.. anyway, it just stinks... not that he didn't chose us, honestly, I am kind of glad not to have that circus here, but how things were handled.. very poorly, and that he seemingly chose to flee cleveland and run for help... he has the right to do that, and as fans we are well within our rights to criticize him..

Nalod wrote:Lebron and his frat party signed off on most deals and instigated some. Big Z was kept as a favor. Jamison was bought in at his request.

The whole Massa/Slave thing is crap. Gilbert PAID for the team. He has a lot of money on the line. MOney at risk. LEbron is paid for his services even if injured. He gets his money even if owner loses his shirt.

The NBA existed before he got into it. I have no problem with him market value but owners have a lot at risk.

Cap levels are based on revenue so the point was to have "profit sharing" MOre the owners make the more the cap goes up raising salaries.

What jordan would or wouldn't do is speculatuve. Jordan had good team of advisors and likley would not have made a specticle.

An unrestricted FA has the right to stiff a team just like an owner has a right to move a team or sell a team, it's business.

Let him handle his business and then say aww you shouldn't have left that way. Look at Seattle and Oklahoma city scenario, Seattle got jammed up and lost the team because the city didn't want to pay for a new stadium= CLEVELAND OWNER & GM NEVER GOT PRIME TIME PLAYERS ONLY RE-TREDS SO LEBRON LEFT. Next city

playa2 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Lebron and his frat party signed off on most deals and instigated some. Big Z was kept as a favor. Jamison was bought in at his request.

The whole Massa/Slave thing is crap. Gilbert PAID for the team. He has a lot of money on the line. MOney at risk. LEbron is paid for his services even if injured. He gets his money even if owner loses his shirt.

The NBA existed before he got into it. I have no problem with him market value but owners have a lot at risk.

Cap levels are based on revenue so the point was to have "profit sharing" MOre the owners make the more the cap goes up raising salaries.

What jordan would or wouldn't do is speculatuve. Jordan had good team of advisors and likley would not have made a specticle.

An unrestricted FA has the right to stiff a team just like an owner has a right to move a team or sell a team, it's business.

Let him handle his business and then say aww you shouldn't have left that way. Look at Seattle and Oklahoma city scenario, Seattle got jammed up and lost the team because the city didn't want to pay for a new stadium= CLEVELAND OWNER & GM NEVER GOT PRIME TIME PLAYERS ONLY RE-TREDS SO LEBRON LEFT. Next city

An owner has to get approval, he just can't move or sell a team without approval..

Yea, look at seattlle's scenario, and those owners took a lot of heat for it... but player, believe me, that situation wasn't as simple as going on a silly tv event and saying " I am taking my talents to south beach"...

I think you miss the point player.. who here is talking about "Rights".. why do you keep going in circles with that argument...

In some states player, your boss has the right to come into work and just fire you because he doesn't like your ugly suit and thinks it is bad for business.. now did he have the right to do that? yes, but was that the professional thing to do? NO.. why you can't grasp this concept bro?

Juice wrote:

tkf wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:

playa2 wrote:#1 you are pathetic.

Lebron knew Clevelands owner was just riding his coat tails into the millions of dollars, never really going out and getting real prime time players who was available to play alongside Lebron. Simply Lebron out thought his owner. Massa didn't know the war was going to be over soon, he just thought lebron was going to settle for sharecropping.

Coming from you, I take your the first comment as a compliment- if I ever heard you agree with me I think I'd have to run to the RealGm Miami forum and hang with a winner team and become a winner fan. I do feel a bit sorry for you, because obviously a sore spot was touched upon.

As I said, you need to have a narrative which justifies your point of view that what James did was fine and noble and shows character. Everything has to follow from that for you. You are finding an argument for a conclusion given in advance.

How do any of us know what kind of talks James was having his Cavs officials over the years regarding where the team was going. Do you really think that James' opinion was not sought after regarding who the Cavs should pick up? Are you that obtuse?

The fact is that the Cavs had the best record in the league the last two years and James could not carry them over the top when it counted. Simple as that. He got them into a finals once prior to these years, without having to face any team in its prime, and then couldn't even squeeze out a win in the finals vs the Spurs. (About 22 PPG, 5 turnovers/gm, and a sterling 10/30 with 6 turnovers in a 4th game 1pt loss.)

The fact that you (and Jesse Jackson- who has had his own ethnically insensitive moments) bring up the Massa/Slave crap is actually more insulting to African Americans than Wade's callous comment about the WTC. You are actually equating the decimation of a continent- a period of time when so-called Christians enlaved their fellow man to the Cavs owner going over the top to express his anger over James not accepting what would have amounted to a Cavs offer of $120 M for his services? You consider that a master/slave relationship?

If I can borrow your analogy, James just bolted for another plantation, with Massa Riley being the owner and Wade his new overseer, who will make sure that LeBron gets to stay in the house and not do any heavy work in the field. The sad thing is that you are one of the few who fail to notice this.

excellent post... I enjoyed reading that.... I hope this post gets through playas skull....

Dang Paladin's last line was some powerful stuff.

Plite.aya always going for the "community choice/pick sensitive racey angle" on like 75% of his posts. It's like he gets a literal high off of it. Playa does make some good points but he should steer away from always trying to package everything as Black or Wh

So juice why didn't you mention them race is desensitized on this forum now

playa2 wrote:Lebron wants to own a team like Jordan one day who had to form a collusion with former owner of B.E.T JUST TO GET HIS FOOT IN THE DOOR ...IT WASN'T EASY, Cleveland owner could give two flips about Lebron the business man.

And it seems as if lebron the business man doesn't give a flip about lebron the player....