crzymdups wrote:

Solace wrote:

iSergio wrote:

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:Worst possible scenario to me is resigning David Lee and signing Joe Johnson. We're still a 35 win team.

so adding a 6'7 SG and a 4 time all star who gives you 22/5/5 night has zero impact on your win total? Want to tell me hows that? I mean I dont want to give Johnson huge money either but saying it has zero impact is silly.

I gave Joe Johnson a 6 game impact Fish. We won 29 last season. Adding Johnson adds about 5-6 wins imo. Yeah, Danilo Gallinari and co. can improve but we would still be a very poor defensive and undersized team. How much better do you think we'd be with Johnson?

Seems a little light. I would say 10 wins based on which players would be getting less minutes because of JJ. But that being said, it's an utter disaster and puts us in no mans land.

What about adding Joe Johnson and Bosh? I'd say that puts us in 45-50 win territory, with the ability to trade Curry's contract for something like Biedrins.

Agreed but I don't see Chris Bosh choosing to join Joe Johnson over Dwyane Wade.

TMS wrote:you better damn believe that i'll be padding my post counts with the I Told You So's if we don't land 2 of the top FA's this summer... just like i'll be giving DW props if we do & admitting being wrong... i wonder if some of you John Doe's who are already building up spin doctor escape routes for the plan not working out the way it was planned would do the same?

Solace wrote:

fishmike wrote:

TMS wrote:you better damn believe that i'll be padding my post counts with the I Told You So's if we don't land 2 of the top FA's this summer... just like i'll be giving DW props if we do & admitting being wrong... i wonder if some of you John Doe's who are already building up spin doctor escape routes for the plan not working out the way it was planned would do the same?

who is John Doe? Is that some backwards way of calling me out? I thought you were better than that

From earlier in the thread, I think John Doe is Briggs and Jane Doe is TMS.

& i think douche could be either Solace or fishmike, but didn't want to call anyone out specifically.

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:Worst possible scenario to me is resigning David Lee and signing Joe Johnson. We're still a 35 win team.

so adding a 6'7 SG and a 4 time all star who gives you 22/5/5 night has zero impact on your win total? Want to tell me hows that? I mean I dont want to give Johnson huge money either but saying it has zero impact is silly.

I gave Joe Johnson a 6 game impact Fish. We won 29 last season. Adding Johnson adds about 5-6 wins imo. Yeah, Danilo Gallinari and co. can improve but we would still be a very poor defensive and undersized team. How much better do you think we'd be with Johnson?

Its not just how many wins does Joe Johnson add to a team, its how many wins does he add to the Knicks.

SG was our most eratic position last year. When we had that one good month we had Hughes hitting shots, playing D and setting up the offense. Then he went back to shooting 20% and the losses piled up. Adding JJ gives you a big player at the SG. He gives you a passer that create open looks for jump shooters (we have Douglas, Gallo and Lee.. all with top flight jumpe shots). He gives you some defense and he gives you some rebounding. Most importantly he can facilitate the offense and that allows you to run Douglas out at PG where he proved he can really score off the ball and really defend opposing PGs.

So I think adding JJ would probably be closer to 15 wins. I think the Knicks would be a slightly above .500 team. Maybe 42-40 or 44-38. Something like that.

Knicks would have 2 all stars in the line up
A strong defensive player at PG where they have been destroyed in recent years.
Excellent size in the back court w/ a Douglas/JJ backcourt.
Good shooting to spread the floor.
High BBIQ player with good FG%s. No chuckers

Your stuck starting Barron at center then going small. Much like the Nets/Suns did starting a guy like Collins.

Your not advancing in the playoffs but you will get there.

Joe Johnson is exactly how much better than Al Harrington? Because that is essentially what you are looking at doing. I don't see how you can argue that Joe Johnson is 15 games better than Al Harrington.

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:Worst possible scenario to me is resigning David Lee and signing Joe Johnson. We're still a 35 win team.

so adding a 6'7 SG and a 4 time all star who gives you 22/5/5 night has zero impact on your win total? Want to tell me hows that? I mean I dont want to give Johnson huge money either but saying it has zero impact is silly.

I gave Joe Johnson a 6 game impact Fish. We won 29 last season. Adding Johnson adds about 5-6 wins imo. Yeah, Danilo Gallinari and co. can improve but we would still be a very poor defensive and undersized team. How much better do you think we'd be with Johnson?

Its not just how many wins does Joe Johnson add to a team, its how many wins does he add to the Knicks.

SG was our most eratic position last year. When we had that one good month we had Hughes hitting shots, playing D and setting up the offense. Then he went back to shooting 20% and the losses piled up. Adding JJ gives you a big player at the SG. He gives you a passer that create open looks for jump shooters (we have Douglas, Gallo and Lee.. all with top flight jumpe shots). He gives you some defense and he gives you some rebounding. Most importantly he can facilitate the offense and that allows you to run Douglas out at PG where he proved he can really score off the ball and really defend opposing PGs.

So I think adding JJ would probably be closer to 15 wins. I think the Knicks would be a slightly above .500 team. Maybe 42-40 or 44-38. Something like that.

Knicks would have 2 all stars in the line up
A strong defensive player at PG where they have been destroyed in recent years.
Excellent size in the back court w/ a Douglas/JJ backcourt.
Good shooting to spread the floor.
High BBIQ player with good FG%s. No chuckers

Your stuck starting Barron at center then going small. Much like the Nets/Suns did starting a guy like Collins.

Your not advancing in the playoffs but you will get there.

Joe Johnson is exactly how much better than Al Harrington? Because that is essentially what you are looking at doing. I don't see how you can argue that Joe Johnson is 15 games better than Al Harrington.

are you serious? There is a reason JJ was a 4 time all star. The guy is a good player. Also JJ is a 6'7 SG with PG skills. Al Harrington is a SF playing PF with SG skills.

That bolded part is D'Antoni's dream player.

Is Joe better than Al? Yes. But 15 wins better? You're talking about taking 15 of our losses last year, and turning them into wins.

Sure, there were some close games last year, but there were just as many games that we got down big early either because of our swiss cheese defense, or because we simply allow teams to light it up from the outside.

Also, not to call Joe over rated, but the last couple of play offs that I've watched him, he has given new meaning to the word 'disappear'. If he can't handle the pressure of the play offs in Atlanta where he is one of many talented players, what is he going to do when we're 5 and 10 at the start of the season, and the headlines are starting the count down to MDA's departure?

We come away this off season with Joe Johnson as our 'major' acquisition- and I'm pretty much preparing myself to find a new team to follow.

Sure, I'll give it some time, but just adding Joe to more or less the same line up next season, and we're at best a 40 win team, and chances are its more like 35 to 38.

You can't ignore all the holes on this roster.

If we miss out on getting the big names, then I'd rather go the route Briggs has suggested, and try to find as many smaller pieces as possible - go with Mike Miller, Ty Thomas and some other, younger, non max type guys and keep open the possibility of having a max slot open for Carmelo in 2011.

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:That bolded part is D'Antoni's dream player.

Is Joe better than Al? Yes. But 15 wins better? You're talking about taking 15 of our losses last year, and turning them into wins.

Sure, there were some close games last year, but there were just as many games that we got down big early either because of our swiss cheese defense, or because we simply allow teams to light it up from the outside.

Also, not to call Joe over rated, but the last couple of play offs that I've watched him, he has given new meaning to the word 'disappear'. If he can't handle the pressure of the play offs in Atlanta where he is one of many talented players, what is he going to do when we're 5 and 10 at the start of the season, and the headlines are starting the count down to MDA's departure?

We come away this off season with Joe Johnson as our 'major' acquisition- and I'm pretty much preparing myself to find a new team to follow.

Sure, I'll give it some time, but just adding Joe to more or less the same line up next season, and we're at best a 40 win team, and chances are its more like 35 to 38.

You can't ignore all the holes on this roster.

If we miss out on getting the big names, then I'd rather go the route Briggs has suggested, and try to find as many smaller pieces as possible - go with Mike Miller, Ty Thomas and some other, younger, non max type guys and keep open the possibility of having a max slot open for Carmelo in 2011.

MDA's dream player? Not even close man. Cmon... his offense is about pushing and sharing the ball. Harrington is a one trick pony. He shoots. When that doesnt work he shoots some more. If he's still struggling he tries shooting instead. I 100% agree that JJ is overrated if your talking about his as an elite free agent, but he's far better than Harrington and fits a huge hole here. 1) we dont have a SG. He gives us a 6'7 SG who is efficient, plays some D, rebounds and creates open shots for others. 2) his ability to run MDAs offense will keep Douglas on the floor who has shown limited PG skills at this time. That makes us better on both ends because Douglas can really score and is our best defender.

I dont want JJ for max money but the guy would great help and fit into this team and the style of play they are trying for.

Hey.. Ty Thomas and Mike Miller where the guys I was saying we should go for. Keep Lee, bring in the athletic Thomas to play center and use Mike Miller as a PG/SG so Douglas could play 35 minutes at the PG.

If we struck out on LBJ and Bosh and could sign JJ for $15 mil, resign Lee for $11 Mill, sign Thomas for $5 mil, and resign Barron, it would be bad but not the worse thing in the world. If MDA actually plays Douglas at PG, that team should be good enough to win 40 games, and we should still have enough cap room to go after a max FA next summer to make it all work, i.e. Carmelo Anthony.