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nyk4ever
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6/10/2010  10:20 AM
iSergio wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:
iSergio wrote:Not every strict, defensive oriented Coach is going to win. It takes more then coaching to win in this league. But history shows you have a much better chance winning with that type of personality and coaching.

ok, so if history dictates it so easily then please provide a list of the coaches. some of the coaches you won't be able to include: phil jackson, pat riley.

Larry Brown
Gregg Popovich
Rudy Tomjanovich
Chuck Daly

All strict, defensive Coaches.

ok so you named 4. wow! history is seriously dictating that your style of coach wins, when the 2 guys I mentioned have an alone combined 15 championships. we better start rewriting the history books.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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iSergio
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6/10/2010  10:24 AM
nyk4ever wrote:
iSergio wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:
iSergio wrote:Not every strict, defensive oriented Coach is going to win. It takes more then coaching to win in this league. But history shows you have a much better chance winning with that type of personality and coaching.

ok, so if history dictates it so easily then please provide a list of the coaches. some of the coaches you won't be able to include: phil jackson, pat riley.

Larry Brown
Gregg Popovich
Rudy Tomjanovich
Chuck Daly

All strict, defensive Coaches.

ok so you named 4. wow! history is seriously dictating that your style of coach wins, when the 2 guys I mentioned have an alone combined 15 championships. we better start rewriting the history books.

LOL I went back 20 years - how far back do you want to go? Fact is, there has been no 'Mike Martz' in the NBA.
iSergio
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6/10/2010  10:25 AM
nyk4ever wrote:
martin wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:how'd that work out for mike brown?

or Avery Johnson or JVG in Houston.

isergio's words:

I just want a strict, take no bull****, disciplinarian who preaches defense. Mike D'Antoni is honestly everything I dislike in a Coach. Smiling all the time, friendly with the media, opens the lockerroom to the public, no defense, making excuses, ect.

funny, i seem to remember having a coach here a few years ago who was just like this. i think his name was larry brown, he is the epitome of that description and everyone but a handful ran him out of town. i guess whatever way the winds blowing today...

It's clear we were all wrong about Larry Brown. He should not have been fired.
martin
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6/10/2010  10:35 AM
iSergio wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:
iSergio wrote:Not every strict, defensive oriented Coach is going to win. It takes more then coaching to win in this league. But history shows you have a much better chance winning with that type of personality and coaching.

ok, so if history dictates it so easily then please provide a list of the coaches. some of the coaches you won't be able to include: phil jackson, pat riley.

Larry Brown
Gregg Popovich
Rudy Tomjanovich
Chuck Daly

All strict, defensive Coaches.

I don't know what strict, defensive coaches means. All of them certain are very good defensive coaches, but if you think they are snoozing on the other side, you would be wrong, no?

Good coaches need good players on both sides on the court to win; balance is key. All of those coaches have had bad team too.

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Pharzeone
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6/10/2010  10:49 AM
nyk, the issue with Larry Brown wasn't his coaching style but he was more concern about a power struggle with Isiah. I think many posters including myself said just coach the guys you have now and worry about the fixes in the off-season. Let's not get revisionist about the situation. Dolan fired Brown for being insubordinate not coaching philosophy. To Brown's credit he admitted that he could have made it work in NY and would do stuff differently.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Pharzeone
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6/10/2010  10:51 AM
martin wrote:
iSergio wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:
iSergio wrote:Not every strict, defensive oriented Coach is going to win. It takes more then coaching to win in this league. But history shows you have a much better chance winning with that type of personality and coaching.

ok, so if history dictates it so easily then please provide a list of the coaches. some of the coaches you won't be able to include: phil jackson, pat riley.

Larry Brown
Gregg Popovich
Rudy Tomjanovich
Chuck Daly

All strict, defensive Coaches.

I don't know what strict, defensive coaches means. All of them certain are very good defensive coaches, but if you think they are snoozing on the other side, you would be wrong, no?

Good coaches need good players on both sides on the court to win; balance is key. All of those coaches have had bad team too.

I think Pop does snooze on the other side a bit but he has paid for it too. That's why you see after the season big trades by them as well.

I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
martin
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6/10/2010  10:53 AM
Pharzeone wrote:
martin wrote:
iSergio wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:
iSergio wrote:Not every strict, defensive oriented Coach is going to win. It takes more then coaching to win in this league. But history shows you have a much better chance winning with that type of personality and coaching.

ok, so if history dictates it so easily then please provide a list of the coaches. some of the coaches you won't be able to include: phil jackson, pat riley.

Larry Brown
Gregg Popovich
Rudy Tomjanovich
Chuck Daly

All strict, defensive Coaches.

I don't know what strict, defensive coaches means. All of them certain are very good defensive coaches, but if you think they are snoozing on the other side, you would be wrong, no?

Good coaches need good players on both sides on the court to win; balance is key. All of those coaches have had bad team too.

I think Pop does snooze on the other side a bit but he has paid for it too. That's why you see after the season big trades by them as well.

Spurs are getting old and need a young, fresh-legged big, that's the reason you will see trades by them.

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Pharzeone
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6/10/2010  10:56 AM
Not that I like the guy but Jefferson took too much heat for their issues on offense last season. I mean they thought the guy would come in and be a 20 point guy with the system they run was ridiculous. And that's on Pop.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
loweyecue
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6/10/2010  11:57 AM
martin wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:
iSergio wrote:
playa2 wrote:
iSergio wrote:Very good fire for New Jersey. I wanted Avery Johnson instead of Mike D'Antoni. The Little General has his flaws but his teams are disciplined and play D.

According to Cosmic if Danphoney was black you would be saying give him more time.

LOL I don't give a damn what race or color a Coach is. I just want a strict, take no bull****, disciplinarian who preaches defense. Mike D'Antoni is honestly everything I dislike in a Coach. Smiling all the time, friendly with the media, opens the lockerroom to the public, no defense, making excuses, ect.

how'd that work out for mike brown?

or Avery Johnson or JVG in Houston.

Or that other Brown, right here in MSG.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
loweyecue
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6/10/2010  12:10 PM
iSergio wrote:Not every strict, defensive oriented Coach is going to win. It takes more then coaching to win in this league. But history shows you have a much better chance winning with that type of personality and coaching.

Didn't Mike Brown just lose with the best record in the NBA, twice? Avery Johnson couldn't get a high powered Dallas team to win either could he? I think this idea of hard nosed defense oriented coaching has been way oversold. You need balanced coaching and there aren't more than 3-4 coaches in the league that are known to be good on both sides of the ball. And none of them were on the market when we were shopping. Based on results MDA is as good as if not better than any of these coaches in Avery Johnson (went to the finals and LOST), Mark Jackson (eh what??), Mike Brown (Had Lebron and got nowhere), but if enough people whine about noty getting one of these great defensive minds then yeah it becomes a self fulfilling disaster. Sometimes its best to just move on.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
nixluva
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6/10/2010  12:13 PM
Plenty of Title teams have been offensively dominant and only pretty good on D. But that's not the point. MDA is only going to win when we put great talent on the floor. Ask Phil about that! MDA got as close as Gentry did so why people hold him up as an example is beyond me. Plus statistically MDA's teamms were better defensively. If Amare actually tried to defend back then maybe they go further. It took him 2 games to finally show up in the WCF's, so I don't wanna hear Amare talk crap about MDA. Plus where was his D when they brought in Terry Porter to emphasize D after MDA left? Amare didn't pick up his D then. Instead they ran Porter out of there not cuz of D but to go back to running on O with Gentry. Even with Gentry they still didn't play any D until this year.

The players have to buy in and give effort but you also have to have two way players and good defense up the middle. Give MDA a solid roster and see what happens. My bet is he can get to the finals.
kam77
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6/10/2010  1:13 PM
nyk4ever wrote:
Pharzeone wrote:If you combine Mike Brown with D'Antoni you get


The Joker got nothing on that grin.

i dont want to start another d'antoni war, because that's clearly what's going to happen, but haven't some posters provided statistics that show that mike d's phoenix teams were on par - or better - defensively with what the gentry team did this year?

Why let facts get in the way of a good argument?

lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
TMS
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6/16/2010  1:15 AM
iSergio wrote:Very good hire for New Jersey. I wanted Avery Johnson instead of Mike D'Antoni. The Little General has his flaws but his teams are disciplined and play D.

Avery Johnson's resume:

194W - 70L
.735 win%
2006 coach of the year
led the Mavs to the NBA Finals (defeated the Spurs & MDA's Suns on the way)
won an NBA championship as the starting PG of the Spurs
defensive minded philosophy

i think the Nets made a great decision to hire this guy.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Childs2Dudley
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6/16/2010  1:24 AM
If you think D'Antoni has soft skin for the media, you should see Avery. This guy wouldn't have survived in NY. He would have exploded eventually.
"Our attitude toward life determines life's attitude towards us." - Earl Nightingale
sebstar
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6/16/2010  12:12 PM
Pharzeone wrote:nyk, the issue with Larry Brown wasn't his coaching style but he was more concern about a power struggle with Isiah. I think many posters including myself said just coach the guys you have now and worry about the fixes in the off-season. Let's not get revisionist about the situation. Dolan fired Brown for being insubordinate not coaching philosophy. To Brown's credit he admitted that he could have made it work in NY and would do stuff differently.

good post.

My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
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nets get a to the johnson...
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