Marv wrote:

Cosmic wrote:Doom and Gloom:

The ultimate doom and gloom is we can't sign anyone and we're forced to retain Lee, Harrington, Duhon. That's the ultimate doom and gloom. However even if that happens we could still go ahead and absorb, say, Elton Brand off the Sixers hands for nothing in return.

So at the very worst, the very very worst, we bring back a 30 win team and add a pretty good player to it. Then we hope that we can do the same the following offseason and suddenly be a pretty good team.

Whoas me, that's just terrible, that the worst case scenario, is pretty good in it's own right.

it sucks worse than you can imagine. especially when we then watch houston use our lottery picks in consecutive years and watch jhill become a starting frontcourt player as well.

In fairness, that's what we do!!! Amare/Nene and Camby; Noah and Aldridge; Hill and Cousins!!!!

THE NEW YORK KNICKS ARE DOMINANT AT SOMETHING

Guess whose Allanfan'ed onm THE STRONG MOTHA EFFING SAUDE MOTHA TRUCKAS WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Cosmic wrote:Doom and Gloom:

The ultimate doom and gloom is we can't sign anyone and we're forced to retain Lee, Harrington, Duhon. That's the ultimate doom and gloom. However even if that happens we could still go ahead and absorb, say, Elton Brand off the Sixers hands for nothing in return.

So at the very worst, the very very worst, we bring back a 30 win team and add a pretty good player to it. Then we hope that we can do the same the following offseason and suddenly be a pretty good team.

Whoas me, that's just terrible, that the worst case scenario, is pretty good in it's own right.

This is what I dont understand about you. You hate Jordan Hill then suggest we could get Elton Brand. The same Elton Brand who killed the Sixers running offense.

Elton Brand is finished man.

SupremeCommander wrote:You take back salary for prospects and picks and defer signing a UFA one year... keep repeating until a clear cut elite player decides cementing a legacy in New York will pay out more $$$$$$$$$$$$$ in the longterm than the sacrificed max dollars

I assure you the sky is not or will not be falling

taking back salaries to get picks is the fallback plan after we just dumped our picks for the next 2 years to unload $9 mil in cap space? that's like taking 2 steps backwards to take 1 step forward... makes no sense... we dumped picks to go hard after talent in free agency... if we can't land the talent we want in free agency, the plan is a huge failure.

nixluva wrote:How is DW incompetent when he said from Day one his priority was to clear cap space for 2010 and beyond? People are quibbling over the decision to clear more space rather than keep the players to use as trade chips. We have to realize that this is a man that been GM for decades and has built teams from scratch. He said that he weighed his options and i'm sure he did this in counsel with his staff, and he felt this was the better play. We can't know if that's right or wrong until this summer.

I don't understand it either.

He had a plan. Him and Mike had a plan. They stuck through it to the end. Now phase 2 begins: Using that space to build a new team.

Why can't we just wait and see what they build before freaking out?

I don't get where people are going with the doomsday threads at all. According to them it's already September and we didn't do anything. It's confusing.

SupremeCommander wrote:

TMS wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:You take back salary for prospects and picks and defer signing a UFA one year... keep repeating until a clear cut elite player decides cementing a legacy in New York will pay out more $$$$$$$$$$$$$ in the longterm than the sacrificed max dollars

I assure you the sky is not or will not be falling

taking back salaries to get picks is the fallback plan after we just dumped our picks for the next 2 years to unload $9 mil in cap space? that's like taking 2 steps backwards to take 1 step forward... makes no sense... we dumped picks to go hard after talent in free agency... if we can't land the talent we want in free agency, the plan is a huge failure.

picks and prospects... preferably prospects. Depends on the situation. The Knicks would get a lot for their ability to absorb salary. For example, if the Knicks took on Peja Stoahdgsfst from New Orleans, they might be able to get Collison and a pick.

Now, I'm no rocket surgeon but it would make complete sense to me to make a few deals like that so the Kicks have a shot at a legit rotation 2-8, just needs a number 1.

You might not like it but it makes sense. We're talking about doom and gloom scenarios, right?

it's not that i don't like the plan of building up with draft picks, i wish we would have held onto our picks to begin with... i just don't see that as an acceptable fallback plan after what we just did to clear cap space... it would be a complete reversal on the "plan"... we invested heavily in future assets to get us to this point... if we fail to land the talent we're after in free agency, what was the point of it all? wouldn't it have been better just to hold onto our picks & have Fishlips' contract coming off the books in '11 rather than taking on longterm salaries just to recoup the picks we gave up to begin with? we're not going to get any lottery picks by taking on salary, we're looking at late 1st rounders... if that is the outcome it's a huge failure cuz we would have been better off just holding onto our own picks... there's really only 1 acceptable outcome this summer, & that is to land a superstar player we can build around... i get a kick out everyone trying to already paint potential failure scenarios as acceptable outcomes... we're all in for this summer guys, face it... this coach has zero desire to coach a team full of rookies & wait a few years for them to develop.

nixluva wrote:You just can't help but try to stick it to MDA! What does this summer have to do with MDA and if he wants to coach a team of rookies and young players? The stated goal of the GM is to try and massively improve the team and he brought in MDA to coach that team.

In the end if everything goes wrong and we can't get anyone my belief is DW will stall until next summer. He's not gonna blow it all on sorry vets and probably not on low picks either. DW stated he wants to be cap responsible from now on and I expect he will be just as he did the last two yrs. He stuck to his guns.

Cosmic wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Cosmic wrote:Doom and Gloom:

The ultimate doom and gloom is we can't sign anyone and we're forced to retain Lee, Harrington, Duhon. That's the ultimate doom and gloom. However even if that happens we could still go ahead and absorb, say, Elton Brand off the Sixers hands for nothing in return.

So at the very worst, the very very worst, we bring back a 30 win team and add a pretty good player to it. Then we hope that we can do the same the following offseason and suddenly be a pretty good team.

Whoas me, that's just terrible, that the worst case scenario, is pretty good in it's own right.

This is what I dont understand about you. You hate Jordan Hill then suggest we could get Elton Brand. The same Elton Brand who killed the Sixers running offense.

Elton Brand is finished man.

You're missing the point. I am suggesting ways we can build a team and used Brand as an example for it's obvious the Sixers are on the verge of firesale mode. I'm not lobbying for Elton Brand. It was an example that we can simply go out and take on another team's player under contract: Thus putting an end to the whole "OMG IF WE DONT SIGN LBJ WE CANT DO ANYTHING" army of doom.

BTW- If you're comparing Jordan Hill to Elton Brand you need to find a new sport to follow. Brand was a straight up beast for some time before getting hurt. Jordan Hill is absolute TRASH.

Cosmic--believe
me you are the one who sounds like he doesn't know crp about basketball. I don't think anyone here thinks Jordan Hill is trash except you--the same guy--the only guy who doesnt want the Knicks to purchase pick 24. And you make an example of bringing in Elton Brand--Im sure Philly would love to appease you. You seem to know it all and everyone else here is stupid.

BRIGGS wrote:After all of this and that crazy trade--the one thing I would ask the Knicks to do is keep the cap space open for the following year--atleast enough to offer a maximum contract. I don't think you can do this without walking away without a star player. If they did this to get secondary players than we wasted two years.

If who we acquire this summer returns us to the "2nd round and out" Knicks of the 90s it would not be a failure at all.

alau53 wrote:if jordan hill is trash then walsh is blamed for that..if jordan hil turns into a player then walsh's fault for trading him..no matter what jhill wil haunt walsh forever unless they get lebron or wade..oaklahoma is an up and comming team cause they built thru the draft....the knicks over the past 35 years have traded away about 1/2 of those 1st rd picks..bad gm's and management..only debusshere and grunfeld were decent gm's..i was all in with dwalsh until he made the tmac trade..trading hil plus potential lottery picks for a chance at getting 2 star players is like having a dolar and a dream..only with the knicks the saying is "have 3 lottery picks and a dream"

Teams strike out on picks all the time. It happens.

Walsh has already taken blame and blasted his scouting department for the failure of drafting Hill and not a different player such as Jennings. The mistake was made and it has been admitted as being a terrible mistake. Jordan Hill stinks. The guy will never be a star and never be an all-star and if he's ever a starter it will be by default/necessity on a team that has absolutely no choice but to start him.

Not sure why people still think after a full year that Hill is "young big who takes time to develop". He's not young, he's not good, and any development will take him from piece of f'ing garbage to terrible to maybe one day when he's 28/29 he will be mediocre. Whooptie damn doo.

Look at this bum's box scores and then go back and look at Frye, Sweetney, Butler. Jordan Hill is garbage. Knicks made a mistake and they moved on. Why can't the fans?

BRIGGS wrote:

Cosmic wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Cosmic wrote:Doom and Gloom:

The ultimate doom and gloom is we can't sign anyone and we're forced to retain Lee, Harrington, Duhon. That's the ultimate doom and gloom. However even if that happens we could still go ahead and absorb, say, Elton Brand off the Sixers hands for nothing in return.

So at the very worst, the very very worst, we bring back a 30 win team and add a pretty good player to it. Then we hope that we can do the same the following offseason and suddenly be a pretty good team.

Whoas me, that's just terrible, that the worst case scenario, is pretty good in it's own right.

This is what I dont understand about you. You hate Jordan Hill then suggest we could get Elton Brand. The same Elton Brand who killed the Sixers running offense.

Elton Brand is finished man.

You're missing the point. I am suggesting ways we can build a team and used Brand as an example for it's obvious the Sixers are on the verge of firesale mode. I'm not lobbying for Elton Brand. It was an example that we can simply go out and take on another team's player under contract: Thus putting an end to the whole "OMG IF WE DONT SIGN LBJ WE CANT DO ANYTHING" army of doom.

BTW- If you're comparing Jordan Hill to Elton Brand you need to find a new sport to follow. Brand was a straight up beast for some time before getting hurt. Jordan Hill is absolute TRASH.

Cosmic--believe
me you are the one who sounds like he doesn't know crp about basketball. I don't think anyone here thinks Jordan Hill is trash except you--the same guy--the only guy who doesnt want the Knicks to purchase pick 24. And you make an example of bringing in Elton Brand--Im sure Philly would love to appease you. You seem to know it all and everyone else here is stupid.

This coming from the guy who wants to fill up our roster 15 deep with NBDL walk ons.

Yeah, okay BRIGGS, you're right, Jordan Hill is a superstar and the #24 pick will be the next Michael Jordan. You got me.

I'm surprised with your vast knowledge you haven't been hired to run an NBA franchise.

Kyrlo Fashenko and Jordan Hill for the max baby! Sit back and let the rings roll in!