He does not look like Karl Malone and thats what eveyone wants.

Dlee is not Charles Oakley. Not X-man. He's Dave Debussure.

Dave Could D' up his man but he usually had Willis next to him and Clyde in front of him controling the other teams best guard.

Its about Chemistry and putting the right complementry pieces around. Dlee gets much better with the proper 5.

PUt the right pieces in and Gallo gets better......Chandler too (although he is the trade bait)

We can get rid of coaches and players but if you don't replace them with better personal it don't work!

BTW, look at Yogi's stats, they are crazy!

Nalod wrote:David Lee is the Yogi Berra of Power fowards. He don't look the part.

He does not look like Karl Malone and thats what eveyone wants.

Dlee is not Charles Oakley. Not X-man. He's Dave Debussure.

Dave Could D' up his man but he usually had Willis next to him and Clyde in front of him controling the other teams best guard.

Its about Chemistry and putting the right complementry pieces around. Dlee gets much better with the proper 5.

PUt the right pieces in and Gallo gets better......Chandler too (although he is the trade bait)

We can get rid of coaches and players but if you don't replace them with better personal it don't work!

BTW, look at Yogi's stats, they are crazy!

ooh i don't know. dave d was real real physical. he battled cowens man to man, gus johnson, luke jackson. i don't think d-lee comes anywhere close to that on the defensive end.

Part of me hopes Lee goes to Miami, where he and Wade and Beasley win 50+ games next year while Lee averages 25/12 playing where ever he plays everynight. It will be fun to post his daily stat lines win after win and listen to the UK crowd go on and on about what a dismal failure Walsh is for not signing him to a $10mm deal when he had the chance.

TMS, I dont obsess about anything. Its a legit point. Winning changes perception and sorry but your comments are a great example. You would have eaten 10 draft spots to dump Zachs contract. Now you realize he's a pretty damn good player because he's on a winning team. Guys are saying the same thing about Crawford.

Lee isnt good enough to turn this team around. But high effeciency frontcourt guys that pass, handle, score and rebound like Lee are building blocks of winning teams.

There is zero value for Lee's production on this forum. Thats fine..

Like DJ said its pretty ironic. Knicks finally draft a diamond in the rough, a 30th pick in the first round who works so hard on his game every year that 5 years into it he makes the all star team and Knick fans would rather have an inferior player like Scola because he's $4mm cheaper.

In more interesting news the Hendrix estate released a new album. Neptune something.. anyone listen? Marv?

fishmike wrote:lots of good ideas here. Lets let Lee walk and sign a toally inferior player like Luis Scola. Who said $12 or $14mm? I said 6 years and $70mm. That starts at $9.5mm next year.

Part of me hopes Lee goes to Miami, where he and Wade and Beasley win 50+ games next year while Lee averages 25/12 playing where ever he plays everynight. It will be fun to post his daily stat lines win after win and listen to the UK crowd go on and on about what a dismal failure Walsh is for not signing him to a $10mm deal when he had the chance.

TMS, I dont obsess about anything. Its a legit point. Winning changes perception and sorry but your comments are a great example. You would have eaten 10 draft spots to dump Zachs contract. Now you realize he's a pretty damn good player because he's on a winning team. Guys are saying the same thing about Crawford.

Lee isnt good enough to turn this team around. But high effeciency frontcourt guys that pass, handle, score and rebound like Lee are building blocks of winning teams.

There is zero value for Lee's production on this forum. Thats fine..

Like DJ said its pretty ironic. Knicks finally draft a diamond in the rough, a 30th pick in the first round who works so hard on his game every year that 5 years into it he makes the all star team and Knick fans would rather have an inferior player like Scola because he's $4mm cheaper.

good ideas like your suggestion to have Lee be our starting 5 again next year & have the worst defensive frontcourt in the NBA for the i don't even remember what number consecutive year in a row... that's just effin' brilliant fish.

yes, i'd prefer Scola because he'd likely be $4M PER YEAR cheaper & gives u pretty even production overall when u consider he plays on both sides of the ball, unlike David Lee... just like u wanted Lee over Bosh because he'd be $6M cheaper... or does that not factor when it comes to your logic? if u ask me the difference between Bosh & Lee is way more pronounced than the difference between Scola & Lee for that matter... here again, you completely avoided to explain your own hypocrisy & double standard reasoning... why is Lee a better option than Bosh at $6 mil per year less but Scola at $4 mil per year less than Lee is not? (btw, i'm no math wizard but i'm pretty sure 6 years at $70 mil rounds out to be $12 mil per on the average - $11.67 mil per to be exact... but who's counting?)... like i already said, if u could sign Lee to 6 years at $60 mil, i'd be fine w/that... that's where i gauge his value to be... u obviously think he's worth more... in my view using the savings to sign a defensive C along w/Scola will give us much better team balance & overall depth than signing D Lee to an overpaid contract.

u also justify giving up multiple 1st round pick talent to unload $7 mil worth of Fishlips' contract & yet you criticize those who would have traded down 10 slots to dump $33 mil worth of Zach Randolph's in '08... if u don't see the double standard here i don't know what to tell u... obviously u do since u can't even offer up any defense to justify your reasoning... if anything, dropping down in the draft to dump Zach 2 years ago made a million times more sense because you're not straight dumping assets to dump salary like you were in favor with Donnie's complete panic trade he made a few weeks ago at the 11th hour.

& for the record, i have always realized Zach was a talented player, please show me one instance where i ever said Zach was anything less than a very good NBA player... what i have always SAID & have yet to waiver on is that he was not worth shelling out the money we were going to have to pay him & thereby sacrifice any sort of chance whatsoever of landing a bigname FA in the summer of 2010... i guess u have conveniently forgotten the points i made to you during those discussions fish... go ahead & ask bitty on this one she'll verify what i'm saying here... i've explained my position to her enough times she should know by now... this is no hindsight BS or flip flopping i'm pulling here... & i've never once criticized Donnie Walsh for trading either Zach or Jamal, who was 1 of my favorite Knicks everyone knows this... i've always defended Donnie for those traded against his critics... seems like u must have missed that too.

I think everyone here agrees that we do NOT want the same front court next season that we had this season. Bringing Lee back doesn't automatically mean we will have that same front court though. Upgrading the front court is unquestionably a priority for this team and I'm not sure why people think that will be easy to achieve if we let an all-star front court walk. You can bring in a guy like Camby or Jermaine O'Neal at a very cheap price and that instantly makes our front court much better.

If you let Lee walk though, it will be much more difficult to use our cap space to both shore up the front court and take care of other weaknesses.

After all, the front court isn't the only area we need to improve on and you can make a valid argument that we have other more pressing needs. We still don't have a good playmaker on the wings, our perimeter D sucks, etc. If you let Lee walk for nothing, it will be very difficult to replace that and make any progress on other areas to improve on.

s3231 wrote:I'm not sure I understand why bringing David Lee back equates to him being our center next year.

I think everyone here agrees that we do NOT want the same front court next season that we had this season. Bringing Lee back doesn't automatically mean we will have that same front court though. Upgrading the front court is unquestionably a priority for this team and I'm not sure why people think that will be easy to achieve if we let an all-star front court walk. You can bring in a guy like Camby or Jermaine O'Neal at a very cheap price and that instantly makes our front court much better.

If you let Lee walk though, it will be much more difficult to use our cap space to both shore up the front court and take care of other weaknesses.

After all, the front court isn't the only area we need to improve on and you can make a valid argument that we have other more pressing needs. We still don't have a good playmaker on the wings, our perimeter D sucks, etc. If you let Lee walk for nothing, it will be very difficult to replace that and make any progress on other areas to improve on.

fish made it a point to criticize my idea to sign Scola & a defensive minded C over extending Lee to a big money deal... that's where that comes from... Camby & J.O. were guys i suggested in a previous thread

btw, no one said let Lee walk for nothing... if u don't sign him, u trade him for assets... a draft pick at the very least... i think that's a given... otherwise Donnie Walsh is a complete idiot.

TMS wrote:

s3231 wrote:I'm not sure I understand why bringing David Lee back equates to him being our center next year.

I think everyone here agrees that we do NOT want the same front court next season that we had this season. Bringing Lee back doesn't automatically mean we will have that same front court though. Upgrading the front court is unquestionably a priority for this team and I'm not sure why people think that will be easy to achieve if we let an all-star front court walk. You can bring in a guy like Camby or Jermaine O'Neal at a very cheap price and that instantly makes our front court much better.

If you let Lee walk though, it will be much more difficult to use our cap space to both shore up the front court and take care of other weaknesses.

After all, the front court isn't the only area we need to improve on and you can make a valid argument that we have other more pressing needs. We still don't have a good playmaker on the wings, our perimeter D sucks, etc. If you let Lee walk for nothing, it will be very difficult to replace that and make any progress on other areas to improve on.

fish made it a point to criticize my idea to sign Scola & a defensive minded C over extending Lee to a big money deal... that's where that comes from... Camby & J.O. were guys i suggested in a previous thread

btw, no one said let Lee walk for nothing... if u don't sign him, u trade him for assets... a draft pick at the very least... i think that's a given... otherwise Donnie Walsh is a complete idiot.

Well, I'm arguing that we can bring back Lee and still sign someone like Camby or J.O. while having money left to address other issues. I mean, if we play our cards right, we could use our MLE if we hold on to Lee's birds and then resign Lee and still have enough to basically max out someone else. You let Lee go to another team though and you lose that opportunity.

Problem is there is no guarantee that we can trade him for assets. Toronto has some leverage on Bosh because they don't plan on renouncing his bird rights and can give him the extra $30 million in a sign and trade.

We can't really do that to Lee though because he isn't a max player and other teams will essentially be able to offer a very similar deal. Yeah, we can give him better % increases from year to year but if we end up renouncing those bird rights, we lose that and that extra 6 year we can offer.

I don't think we have much leverage at all in this scenario. Lee can very easily go to NJ and say "screw you NY."

s3231 wrote:

TMS wrote:

s3231 wrote:I'm not sure I understand why bringing David Lee back equates to him being our center next year.

I think everyone here agrees that we do NOT want the same front court next season that we had this season. Bringing Lee back doesn't automatically mean we will have that same front court though. Upgrading the front court is unquestionably a priority for this team and I'm not sure why people think that will be easy to achieve if we let an all-star front court walk. You can bring in a guy like Camby or Jermaine O'Neal at a very cheap price and that instantly makes our front court much better.

If you let Lee walk though, it will be much more difficult to use our cap space to both shore up the front court and take care of other weaknesses.

After all, the front court isn't the only area we need to improve on and you can make a valid argument that we have other more pressing needs. We still don't have a good playmaker on the wings, our perimeter D sucks, etc. If you let Lee walk for nothing, it will be very difficult to replace that and make any progress on other areas to improve on.

fish made it a point to criticize my idea to sign Scola & a defensive minded C over extending Lee to a big money deal... that's where that comes from... Camby & J.O. were guys i suggested in a previous thread

btw, no one said let Lee walk for nothing... if u don't sign him, u trade him for assets... a draft pick at the very least... i think that's a given... otherwise Donnie Walsh is a complete idiot.

Problem is there is no guarantee that we can trade him for assets. Toronto has some leverage on Bosh because they don't plan on renouncing his bird rights and can give him the extra $30 million in a sign and trade.

We can't really do that to Lee though because he isn't a max player and other teams will essentially be able to offer a very similar deal. Yeah, we can give him better % increases from year to year but if we end up renouncing those bird rights, we lose that and that extra 6 year we can offer.

I don't think we have much leverage at all in this scenario. Lee can very easily go to NJ and say "screw you NY."

i don't think Lee is the type of guy that would do that personally... T-Mac was under no obligation to agree to a sign & trade to get out of TOR either, but he did it... sign & trade benefits Lee because it gets him that 6th year that he won't be able to get by signing w/some team outright... it is in his best interest to agree to a sign & trade.

TMS wrote:

s3231 wrote:

TMS wrote:

s3231 wrote:I'm not sure I understand why bringing David Lee back equates to him being our center next year.

I think everyone here agrees that we do NOT want the same front court next season that we had this season. Bringing Lee back doesn't automatically mean we will have that same front court though. Upgrading the front court is unquestionably a priority for this team and I'm not sure why people think that will be easy to achieve if we let an all-star front court walk. You can bring in a guy like Camby or Jermaine O'Neal at a very cheap price and that instantly makes our front court much better.

If you let Lee walk though, it will be much more difficult to use our cap space to both shore up the front court and take care of other weaknesses.

After all, the front court isn't the only area we need to improve on and you can make a valid argument that we have other more pressing needs. We still don't have a good playmaker on the wings, our perimeter D sucks, etc. If you let Lee walk for nothing, it will be very difficult to replace that and make any progress on other areas to improve on.

fish made it a point to criticize my idea to sign Scola & a defensive minded C over extending Lee to a big money deal... that's where that comes from... Camby & J.O. were guys i suggested in a previous thread

btw, no one said let Lee walk for nothing... if u don't sign him, u trade him for assets... a draft pick at the very least... i think that's a given... otherwise Donnie Walsh is a complete idiot.

Problem is there is no guarantee that we can trade him for assets. Toronto has some leverage on Bosh because they don't plan on renouncing his bird rights and can give him the extra $30 million in a sign and trade.

We can't really do that to Lee though because he isn't a max player and other teams will essentially be able to offer a very similar deal. Yeah, we can give him better % increases from year to year but if we end up renouncing those bird rights, we lose that and that extra 6 year we can offer.

I don't think we have much leverage at all in this scenario. Lee can very easily go to NJ and say "screw you NY."

i don't think Lee is the type of guy that would do that personally... T-Mac was under no obligation to agree to a sign & trade to get out of TOR either, but he did it... sign & trade benefits Lee because it gets him that 6th year that he won't be able to get by signing w/some team outright... it is in his best interest to agree to a sign & trade.

Didn't T-Mac get the max though? He would have been leaving a lot of money on the table if he didn't do the sign and trade. This won't be the case with Lee though as he isn't a max player and teams with cap can offer him a bigger contract than we're willing to give him right away.