You really have to gameplan like there is no chance he is coming back, even if you sign him to the minimum. Anything T-Mac can give you next season would simply be a bonus.

fishmike wrote:A couple things. Gay has been in the league 5 years. He's pretty much been the same player the last 4 years. Why in years 6 and up will he "still be reaching his potential" ???? Can someone explain to me why our guys in Lee, Gallo, Chandler, etc are what they are but we can give Rudy the max he can earn and then he will reach his potential? Rudy is a good scorer, a very good defender and a solid rebounder. Good long player. He is not a facilitator in any way shape or form.

To me its not so much that one is better than the other. They are different players. If we cant upgrade PG then I would prefer JJ and run Douglas out there. That gives you two ball handlers and Douglas can go lock down the opposing PG and have less pressure to run an offense (JJ can do that for MDA).

Gay is good. I like his game, but JJ brings more things we need. We could sign all three (JJ+Lee+Gay).

I think the "Gay has yet to reach his potential" talk is a joke. People around here say things like putting Gallo in the starting lineup is a joke but 5 years in the league we can max out Rudy Gay cause he hasnt reached his potiential yet. I dont get it. Rudy is what you see is what you get. He's a good player.

Rudy Gay is made to play in up tempo. I think with a faster pace--you would see numbers in the 24/25 area with 7/8 rebounds 3 assits near 2 blocks 47-49%. Rudy's max contract is 4 mm smaller and if you move Danillo to PF you have a very lengthy team to help out in the 4-1 offense we play. I fear giving 17mm to Joe Johnson who will be 30 next year. If you take an honest look at players hitting their 30's it's risky.

BRIGGS wrote:

knicksbabyyeah wrote:iSergio, and what do you plan on doing with Chandler and Gallo in the scenario where we'd sign Gay?

What do you do with them if you sign Johnson?

Same thing - trade one of them. Both Danilo Gallinari and Wilson Chandler are SFs and Bill Walker is a solid backup. I'd trade Gallo. I'm not a fan of his game and Chandler is just better.

Joe Johnson is a good player, but he isn't the Joe Johnson of three years ago. His skills will go and they will go quickly. He turned down 15 million a year. So he is going to want 17 million to come to the Knicks. And if that's what we end up getting. Donnie walk out the ****ing door. He should have had great foundation pieces in place for us to compliment our free agent. But we have nothing right now.

So I will take the younger player. If you tell me we are giving Rudy 11 Felton 6 Lee 9-10 that's not the worst offseason. I like the idea of locking in talented youth because you can always trade them. Johnson will break down. Houston was great for about 4/5 years then just folded because of injury we can't afford to do it again. Not signing Ariza was his big mistake this offseason for peanuts.

Let's remember that the that with Spree, Camby, and Houston we were a playoff team/fringe playoff team that really struggled to get over the hump. And that was a team full of great role playing defenders which we do not have.

Finestrg wrote:Gay without question. I mean it's not even worth debating. Johnson's a fine player but I agree with what most of you are saying: he's older and he's never really been a bigtime producer in the big spot in either Phoenix or Atlanta.

LeBron's easily the #1 choice -- if he stays in Cleveland however, Gay and Bosh would make for a very good off-season. I don't think Gay wants to stay there (if you believe Alan Hahn) and Memphis will have trouble shelling out the big bucks to keep him. Trouble is, for us, I think we'll have to approach a max offer in order to scare off Memphis. Anything less that even remotely resembles fair market value, I think the Grizzles will match, budget constraints and all. Gay's too good already and too young not too...You always have to overpay in order to pry a player away from their original team and that concerns me but what are we supposed to do? If we do get Gay, here's hoping it won't be for the max but I wouldn't count on it being that much less... As for Chris Bosh, I really think he's in the mix here -- either we sign and trade for him using Lee (it'll probably have to be Lee + though and I'm curious to see what else we'd have to include because although Bosh is better and actually a year younger, Lee's pretty close to Bosh production-wise. Recently I haven't really heard that much of an interest in Bosh as a FA so as of right now, I can't see another team offering Toronto a player like Lee in return. If we decide to go this route, let's hope it won't take that much more than Lee -- we can't possibly trade away another draft pick can we??) OR we can offer him a max offer sheet outright and put the pressure squarely on Bryan Colangelo. Again, early on in the season, Colangelo went on the record and publicly questioned whether or not Bosh was even a max player and if he'd even be back in Toronto or not. Since then Bosh has gone on to have a monster year. No doubt Colangelo has most likely reconsidered his position on Bosh, but don't for one second think Bosh has forgotten all about what was said. Plus, Bosh's agent is from Long Island, went to Hofstra University and supposedly grew up a huge Knick fan.

(1) Lebron + another really good player (hopefully Chris Bosh)
(2) Gay + Bosh
(3) Bosh, a solid young PG like a Ray Felton and then hopefully Melo in 2011

That's what I could see happening. I'm not even considering Wade & Stoudemire. Wade's not leaving Miami Beach anyway and besides both guys, like Joe Johnson, are a little bit older and at this stage of their careers, as good as they are, may not be worth long-term max deals...

Of those 3 options, I don't see 1 happening. I like 3 but doubt Melo leaves either. I'd be happy with Bosh and Gay. Only negative on Gay is he can't really create his own shot and we have Chandler and Gallo.

TD
Johnson
Chandler
Bosh or Lee
Camby

would be nice.

MS wrote:I'm not loving Gallo right now. He doesn't really show the fire we need and looks to be a wasted pick. My money is on Rudy Gay and the number is 12 million you don't go above that. Kevin Martin and Ellis are getting 11 so a five year $55 million dollar offer is fine.

Joe Johnson is a good player, but he isn't the Joe Johnson of three years ago. His skills will go and they will go quickly. He turned down 15 million a year. So he is going to want 17 million to come to the Knicks. And if that's what we end up getting. Donnie walk out the ****ing door. He should have had great foundation pieces in place for us to compliment our free agent. But we have nothing right now.

So I will take the younger player. If you tell me we are giving Rudy 11 Felton 6 Lee 9-10 that's not the worst offseason. I like the idea of locking in talented youth because you can always trade them. Johnson will break down. Houston was great for about 4/5 years then just folded because of injury we can't afford to do it again. Not signing Ariza was his big mistake this offseason for peanuts.

Let's remember that the that with Spree, Camby, and Houston we were a playoff team/fringe playoff team that really struggled to get over the hump. And that was a team full of great role playing defenders which we do not have.

that means walsh just shipped out 2 lotto picks and a draft swap to sign felton.

BRIGGS wrote:

Moonangie wrote:For MDA's system, clearly a five years younger Gay is a much better fit than a nearly over-the-hill Johnson. Yoots are what this team needs to build around. Yots + superstar in his prime (i.e., Bron, Bosh, Melo, KD).

Oklahoma is showing with young talent you can be a big time winner quickly. We don't need to put ourselves in a position where a 30 year old may control 1/3 of the cap and is name is not Lebron.
Gay's contract is smaller roughly 4mm[which is another player!] and with a multi dimensional game will fit right in. When you start collecting 30 year olds---you will not be able to press the medal to the pedal as much as you could with youth and we ahev already gone through this multiple times as a franchise.

Gay is a good player, but he better be part of a bigger package. Sure he would look good in an uptemp game. Problem is we dont run one. Until we get a PG that can do that Gay isnt making this team much better.

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:A couple things. Gay has been in the league 5 years. He's pretty much been the same player the last 4 years. Why in years 6 and up will he "still be reaching his potential" ???? Can someone explain to me why our guys in Lee, Gallo, Chandler, etc are what they are but we can give Rudy the max he can earn and then he will reach his potential? Rudy is a good scorer, a very good defender and a solid rebounder. Good long player. He is not a facilitator in any way shape or form.

To me its not so much that one is better than the other. They are different players. If we cant upgrade PG then I would prefer JJ and run Douglas out there. That gives you two ball handlers and Douglas can go lock down the opposing PG and have less pressure to run an offense (JJ can do that for MDA).

Gay is good. I like his game, but JJ brings more things we need. We could sign all three (JJ+Lee+Gay).

I think the "Gay has yet to reach his potential" talk is a joke. People around here say things like putting Gallo in the starting lineup is a joke but 5 years in the league we can max out Rudy Gay cause he hasnt reached his potiential yet. I dont get it. Rudy is what you see is what you get. He's a good player.

Rudy Gay is made to play in up tempo. I think with a faster pace--you would see numbers in the 24/25 area with 7/8 rebounds 3 assits near 2 blocks 47-49%. Rudy's max contract is 4 mm smaller and if you move Danillo to PF you have a very lengthy team to help out in the 4-1 offense we play. I fear giving 17mm to Joe Johnson who will be 30 next year. If you take an honest look at players hitting their 30's it's risky.

Well, I dont think JJ costs you $17mm, nor do I think the Knicks would offer it.

Knicks will have about $35-$36mm in cap space.
I think if they offer Joe Johnson $13mm next year thats a 5 year $76mm contract.
I think they offer Lee $9mm next year which comes out to 6 years $70mm (very generous and good market IMO)

That will leave them $12-$14mm to work with and that will be VERY solid next year. They can use it to make trades, or take a shot at someone like Tyrus Thomas. They could also use that money for Rudy Gay and try to turn Chandler into a PG. Maybe Rubio, Sessions, Collison, DJ Augestine.

I dont have a problem w/ Rudy Gay. Your probably right about his stats inflating. But if that is who we end up with and dont get a play maker and dont get bigger up front we win 30 games next year, the coach gets fired and our lottery pick gets swapped w/ the Rockets. As good a piece Gay is to have he better be part of a bigger plan.

JJ turned down 4 years 60mm from Atlanta that's 15mm per--next up max contract.

Its all about market. Its possible the Hawks bring him back for that. And 5 years $76mm is more than what ATL offered, the contract I proposed is better.

You get him for that and you can have Lee + $12mm to sign other guys with. That puts the Knicks is a good spot assuming they whiff on Lebron