Cosmic wrote:

Markji wrote:It's times like this that I wish we had Isiah ....uh NO!
Layden .... Uh, NO!

When was the last time we had someone in management who did something well? Probably the Spree trade.

When we get LeBron, we will forget how bad this trade was because LeBron will single-handedly win 5 Championships for us??? Just poorly executed management and coaching.

Ok, so I read this post. And I do like reading your posts and POV.

But now I have to ask. What did you/do you envision Jordan Hill doing in the NBA?

12/8?
20/10/2 blocks?
Sweetney?
Duncan?

I mean, what do you see? (And everyone that's so irate over dropping this guy).

Franchise building block?
15 min per night 9th man?

What do you see?

...it's an honest question.

Was the Jeffries trade excessive? Yes, it was. To drop 10M in salary you give up your 8th pick from a previous draft (which, btw, I still maintain we essentially used Hill - to get rid of Hill [2.7M]), the 2011 swap, that's fine, but the 2012 pick is the one that was too much.

Regardless what I try to do is look at the entire body of work. The entire 2 year tear down of the roster.

What did we give up to drop 100M in salary?

Mardy Collins, Jordan Hill, 2011 swap, 2012 pick.

When you think of it that way, and you ask yourself "What would I do to have a shot at 2 of LeBron, Amare, Wade, Bosh, JJ, Boozer, etc?" - if someone said that's all it would cost?

There isn't a single fan on this or any forum that wouldn't give up what we gave up to have that shot.

To me, that's the bottom line. What did I give up in TOTAL to get rid of all that trash? In the end, not much. You look at the single trade and yes it WAS excessive. But you look at the entire body of work? Quite a fair price in the end.

And that's the point: THE BODY OF WORK.

The whole thing.

Now, let's see what they do with it... the flexibility. Let's see what happens over the next 2 years. Before we go nuts.

Jordan Hill. Jordan freakin Hill. Knick fans are robbing banks, punching out their girlfriends, throwing old ladies down stairs, and burning down fast food restaurants over Jordan Hill? Really? JORDAN HILL!?!?!?!?

Good LORD have we fallen or what this decade. Jordan freakin Hill. If I shake my head any more it's going to fly off through my wall and kill a next door neighbor.

Jordan Hill. Roberson. Morris. Sweetney. Butler. Yeah, they all have something in common. Some random Knick fan butters them up as a franchise building block and tries to murder everyone who disagrees.

Talk about the strange and bizarre.

Jordan Hill. LMFAO. As if we had only played him we'd have 50 wins or something. We wouldn't even have 21 for crying out loud. Dude's a hack.

Charles Oakley was replaced with Kurt Thomas eventually. Oakley made Thomas look like TRASH. Agree?

Kurt Thomas would bend Hill over his knee and spank him like a child.

...that's what we're dealing with here. Jordan Hill.

Okay, I'm done ranting on the topic. Long live JordanDuncanKareemKevinGarnettWiltChamberlainShaqEwingMaloneHill.

ROFL at the part in bold... my man cos.. you are on a roll... I understand what you are saying and you have some valid points. I guess fans are tired of us trading assets in what seems to be unecessary or lopsided deals.. Listen we had enough room to sign a max free agent regardless if we got rid of jeffries or not... I know many would have been happy to roll with that, let curry and
jeffries expire next year or trade them at the deadline, and look to add another player from the 2011 FA pool.... I am sure most would rather do that, than give up a player i hill, who was our 8th pick before we saw what he could really do. And the picks on top of that just seemed like a bit much.. that's all....

misterearl wrote:The impatience of New Yorkers is stunning. Donnie Walsh was brought in, and trusted by CHARLES Dolan Cablevision, to finally get the Knicks house in order. This is not the trading card, RealGM or fantasy business. It is the cold hard reality of doing deals with your COMPETITION in order to improve over the long term. iSergio is dead on and cosmic knows the future is not promised to any franchise. You set a course and stick to it.

My only concern is that Donnie's age does not prevent him from finishing the job he started in the 5 years it will require.

The moral of the story

If it requires trading Jordan Hill for a shot at Carmelo Anthony in 2011 you pull the damn trigger.

It requires 5 years of sacrifice and suffering. Put down the newspapers written by chicken liver hearted gossip columnists.

Stop whining and grow a pair.

come on earl, you know the orange and blue are cursed. just look at the mets...

which of these guys were on the radar a month ago?

gimme a break homeskillet

misterearl wrote:The impatience of New Yorkers is stunning. Donnie Walsh was brought in, and trusted by CHARLES Dolan Cablevision, to finally get the Knicks house in order. This is not the trading card, RealGM or fantasy business. It is the cold hard reality of doing deals with your COMPETITION in order to improve over the long term. iSergio is dead on and cosmic knows the future is not promised to any franchise. You set a course and stick to it.

My only concern is that Donnie's age does not prevent him from finishing the job he started in the 5 years it will require.

The moral of the story

If it requires trading Jordan Hill for a shot at Carmelo Anthony in 2011 you pull the damn trigger.

It requires 5 years of sacrifice and suffering. Put down the newspapers written by chicken liver hearted gossip columnists.

Stop whining and grow a pair.

Absolute moronic post. Jared Jefferies contract expires before Carmelo is a FA. This trade only works[actually I dont know how it works] is if somehow through back channels LBJ said he wanted to play with chris Bosh get me the space. If anything less such a bad trade its mind boggling. We didnt get rid of 3 years 39mm we got rid of 1 year 6.7mm + Hill

misterearl wrote:Absolute moronic Post Number 2

Briggs - put down the Trade Checker and step away from the vehicle. Unlike your cheap daily threads of plastic bead trade proposals, I am suggesting that the strategy that Donnie Wash is executing has a long term goal and vision in mind. It runs counter to the quick fix that dates back to the signings of Paul Westphal, George McGinnis (which they were severely penalized for) and Bob McAdoo.

Are you suggesting that acquiring Carmelo Anthony is NOT a distinct possibility if Walsh moves his chess pieces in advance of 2011?

Stop thinking in your juvenile tradition of knee-jerk, one step moves and think three years ahead for a change.

The vision for better or for worst will be revealed this summer.

BRIGGS wrote:

misterearl wrote:Absolute moronic Post Number 2

Briggs - put down the Trade Checker and step away from the vehicle. Unlike your cheap daily threads of plastic bead trade proposals, I am suggesting that the strategy that Donnie Wash is executing has a long term goal and vision in mind. It runs counter to the quick fix that dates back to the signings of Paul Westphal, George McGinnis (which they were severely penalized for) and Bob McAdoo.

Are you suggesting that acquiring Carmelo Anthony is NOT a distinct possibility if Walsh moves his chess pieces in advance of 2011?

Stop thinking in your juvenile tradition of knee-jerk, one step moves and think three years ahead for a change.

Misterearl--add 1+1

your teha nswer man you can figure it out.

Jared Jeffreies and Edy Curry's contract expire next year. Carmelo Anthony is a FA the following summer--what salary is left my man? You don't need any subterfuge with this one earl--your answer is wrong. And while you are criticizing me I would check your own daily 5 over the last two years as it has changed 50 times. Sorry the only logical decision to move Jefferies Hill and the pick was to utilize the cap room it gave in 2010--otherwise it was going to be there. Spin it anyway you want--Im right.

i think you are right - they are planning to use the cap room in 2010. how about waiting to see what they do with it before judging the moves.

banking on cap room in 2011 is fool hardy. the lockout is coming in 2011, there may be no cap room in 2011. the knicks are looking to revamp their team before the landscape of the entire NBA changes with the 2011 lockout.

ignoring this fact is foolhardy. and the trade didn't clear $6.7M, it cleared $10M when you count Jordan Hill. he's a decent piece. is he a piece who is worth sacrificing cap room for two max deals? extremely debatable. bill walker has had games as a knick where he looked better than jordan hill ever has and we don't hear a peep about that.

misterearl wrote:briggs - we will see the results of how Donnie Walsh utilizes the available salary and revolving door roster by 2013. His moves are not simply predicated on salary, but his ability to negotiate with general managers bent on defeating him to save their jobs.

This was never a one or two year exercise. It will be 2013 before the Knicks are on a correction course to the ECF.

Not a day before.

What the hll are you talking about? Curry and jefferies expire in 2011--there is no 2013--that cap space is there in 2011--why throw away picks and a promising athletic 6-10 player for a chance to use 8.7mm more in cap in 2010--that's it[otherwise why do it]? You sound like Isiah for goodness sakes. Making these idiotic proclamations that make no common sense. Is Isiah still in the house????:(

Briggs - you can use all the name-calling that you desire. The fact remains, the re-construction of the Knicks franchise is not a simple Jiffy Pop maneuver. The repositioning of salary and salary spots is a risk Walsh feels worth taking. It is NOT a one year deal.

To sit here and second-guess his courage, take a rear mirror view in a vacuum, or propose endless short-term alternate universe trades, is a game for chumps.

misterearl wrote:2013

Briggs - you can use all the name-calling that you desire. The fact remains, the re-construction of the Knicks franchise is not a simple Jiffy Pop maneuver. The repositioning of salary and salary spots is a risk Walsh feels worth taking. It is NOT a one year deal.

To sit here and second-guess his courage, take a rear mirror view in a vacuum, or propose endless short-term alternate universe trades, is a game for chumps.

then what was the point of unloading pick/player/swap to clear up space for 2010? if the goal is 2013, all that would have been quite useful to build with or trade at a later date.

misterearl wrote:2013

Briggs - you can use all the name-calling that you desire. The fact remains, the re-construction of the Knicks franchise is not a simple Jiffy Pop maneuver. The repositioning of salary and salary spots is a risk Walsh feels worth taking. It is NOT a one year deal.

To sit here and second-guess his courage, take a rear mirror view in a vacuum, or propose endless short-term alternate universe trades, is a game for chumps.

Mind boggling. I think anyone can see the trade parameters with ease. We either use the cap space that we just paid heavily for in 2010 or we wasted a lot of assets for nothing. There is no other way around it--not 2013 no courage no rear mirrors. The only one who will look like a chump is Dolan--actually he already does but this will add to his resume.