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If The Knicks Trade For McGrady The Irony Is Palpable...
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nixluva
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2/16/2010  2:18 PM
No matter how some want to frame this, DW wasn't going to give up Hill and draft picks for JUST TMac!!! However for the chance to clear enough cap space to sign to max FA's, it's well worth it and it's worth the risk IMO. Isiah wasn't going after proven winners, DW is! That's a major distinction. Sure we may not get exactly everyone we target, but with so many FA's out there we should be able to get someone that can help this team win.

The draft is a huge crap shoot. There's no way to guarantee that the guy you get is gonna be a NBA great if you don't get the top 1-5 picks. The Bulls got real lucky to get Rose and the teams that should get a player like that often gets crap. With this FA market we're targeting players that have at least proven they produce and if we can get a couple of those guys this team will improve greatly. That's worth the risk of trading draft picks and unproven talent.

AUTOADVERT
CrushAlot
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2/16/2010  2:18 PM
crzymdups wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
TheGame wrote:I think Walsh tried to get something for Marbury, but Marbury is such a nut-case that the entire league knew he would be cut, so why trade for him. If we give up Hill just to get rid of Jeffries, I am going to be highly concerned. THat is an all-in type move. Either we get Lebron and Bosh or at least Bosh and JOhnson or else we just gave away a solid PF prospect for nothing.

D'Antoni's handling of Marbury made him untradeable. Marbury went thru training camp and was planning on playing. Walsh planned on Marbury being an asset. That being said, the market for a contract like Marbury's going into this offseason is much better.

Marbury's handling of MSG interns made him untradeable. Marbury's handling of his own sanity made him untradeable.

Man, some of you guys have short memories. This dude ate vaseline and cried and danced and acted like a maniac. NO responsible GM would assume a contract that paid that dude $20M+ even for one season. it would be career suicide.


I have to disagree. Ruben Patterson is not a good guy and has done some awful things. His talent kept him in the league despite all of that. Marbury had alot more talent and his problems were no where near as heinous.

Marbury didn't commit crimes... he was losing his grip on reality and everyone saw it. The PG is a position of leadership - you can't have a guy like that leading your offense, even off the bench.

I say he never would have been traded. I don't buy it for a second. To me the major difference is that people covet cap room in the summer of 2010 and not as many teams coveted it in 2009 because there were fewer options. Detroit had max cap room and then some and they wasted it on Ben Gordon and Charlie Villenueva - two good players, but good players who are way overpaid. Cap space is 2010 is worth its weight in gold to certain teams, particularly NY. I don't think you could say that about ANY team in 2009.

I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Andrew
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2/16/2010  2:19 PM
Knickss208 wrote:
Andrew wrote:
Knickss208 wrote:You are a moron.

Uh, hello? Can we try to act like adults here?

Seriously?


Yes.

PURE KNICKS LOVE
OldFan
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2/16/2010  2:23 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
TheGame wrote:I think Walsh tried to get something for Marbury, but Marbury is such a nut-case that the entire league knew he would be cut, so why trade for him. If we give up Hill just to get rid of Jeffries, I am going to be highly concerned. THat is an all-in type move. Either we get Lebron and Bosh or at least Bosh and JOhnson or else we just gave away a solid PF prospect for nothing.

D'Antoni's handling of Marbury made him untradeable. Marbury went thru training camp and was planning on playing. Walsh planned on Marbury being an asset. That being said, the market for a contract like Marbury's going into this offseason is much better.

Marbury's handling of MSG interns made him untradeable. Marbury's handling of his own sanity made him untradeable.

Man, some of you guys have short memories. This dude ate vaseline and cried and danced and acted like a maniac. NO responsible GM would assume a contract that paid that dude $20M+ even for one season. it would be career suicide.


I have to disagree. Ruben Patterson is not a good guy and has done some awful things. His talent kept him in the league despite all of that. Marbury had alot more talent and his problems were no where near as heinous.

Did you watch Marbury play for the Celtics? He was done as an NBA player.

TMS
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2/16/2010  3:37 PM
what consistently seems to amaze me is the fact that we never seem to be able to get anything for any of our expiring contracts... not Jalen Rose, not Mo Taylor, not Stephon Marbury... all those guys got bought out just to save a million or so dollars off the luxury tax... meanwhile you got teams like the Rockets shopping T-Mac to us w/his expiring & we're talking about sending away #8 lottery pick selections & future 1st round draft picks... WTF is wrong with this picture?!?!
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Knickss208
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2/16/2010  3:41 PM
TMS wrote:what consistently seems to amaze me is the fact that we never seem to be able to get anything for any of our expiring contracts... not Jalen Rose, not Mo Taylor, not Stephon Marbury... all those guys got bought out just to save a million or so dollars off the luxury tax... meanwhile you got teams like the Rockets shopping T-Mac to us w/his expiring & we're talking about sending away #8 lottery pick selections & future 1st round draft picks... WTF is wrong with this picture?!?!

In order to clear Jeffries off our roster........

crzymdups
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2/16/2010  3:55 PM
TMS wrote:what consistently seems to amaze me is the fact that we never seem to be able to get anything for any of our expiring contracts... not Jalen Rose, not Mo Taylor, not Stephon Marbury... all those guys got bought out just to save a million or so dollars off the luxury tax... meanwhile you got teams like the Rockets shopping T-Mac to us w/his expiring & we're talking about sending away #8 lottery pick selections & future 1st round draft picks... WTF is wrong with this picture?!?!

it wasn't the hallowed summer of 2010 back then. the economics of the league have vastly changed over the last few years.

also, around the time of rose and mo taylor, we had a GM mostly interested in spinning expirings into longer commitments.

¿ △ ?
TMS
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2/16/2010  4:34 PM
crzymdups wrote:
TMS wrote:what consistently seems to amaze me is the fact that we never seem to be able to get anything for any of our expiring contracts... not Jalen Rose, not Mo Taylor, not Stephon Marbury... all those guys got bought out just to save a million or so dollars off the luxury tax... meanwhile you got teams like the Rockets shopping T-Mac to us w/his expiring & we're talking about sending away #8 lottery pick selections & future 1st round draft picks... WTF is wrong with this picture?!?!

it wasn't the hallowed summer of 2010 back then. the economics of the league have vastly changed over the last few years.

also, around the time of rose and mo taylor, we had a GM mostly interested in spinning expirings into longer commitments.

you're the same guy who just the other day was telling me about how much "big value" Fishlips & Curry would have as expiring contracts in 2011 for us to use in a trade.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
crzymdups
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2/16/2010  4:39 PM
TMS wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
TMS wrote:what consistently seems to amaze me is the fact that we never seem to be able to get anything for any of our expiring contracts... not Jalen Rose, not Mo Taylor, not Stephon Marbury... all those guys got bought out just to save a million or so dollars off the luxury tax... meanwhile you got teams like the Rockets shopping T-Mac to us w/his expiring & we're talking about sending away #8 lottery pick selections & future 1st round draft picks... WTF is wrong with this picture?!?!

it wasn't the hallowed summer of 2010 back then. the economics of the league have vastly changed over the last few years.

also, around the time of rose and mo taylor, we had a GM mostly interested in spinning expirings into longer commitments.

you're the same guy who just the other day was telling me about how much "big value" Fishlips & Curry would have as expiring contracts in 2011 for us to use in a trade.

i didn't say big value. i said we could be the ones buying the haywoods and possibly butlers of the world once we were over the cap again and curry's deal was an expiring. sheesh.

¿ △ ?
TMS
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2/16/2010  4:43 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/16/2010  4:43 PM
Caron Butler & Brendan Haywood are very good players & neither of them have the injury issues that T-Mac has... meanwhile we need to give up 3 potential lottery picks just to dump Fishlips off our roster & somehow next season u thought we could use him as a chip to acquire guys like Butler & Haywood... riiiight.
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holfresh
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2/16/2010  6:33 PM
Hey If Walsh and MDA gives up draft picks to bring in Tracy McGrady, the Regime Change treads begins...They sold us on rebuilding, now we are trying to do McGrady and his agent a solid by giving away our future...AGAIN...NO...Apparently Walsh is good friends with his agent...This isn't going down smoothly....I'm amazed...I thought we were done Starphucking...
TMS
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2/16/2010  6:40 PM
it's all about developing the young guys... except when we're trading those young guys to dump salary.
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Uptown
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2/16/2010  6:49 PM
holfresh wrote:Hey If Walsh and MDA gives up draft picks to bring in Tracy McGrady, the Regime Change treads begins...They sold us on rebuilding, now we are trying to do McGrady and his agent a solid by giving away our future...AGAIN...NO...Apparently Walsh is good friends with his agent...This isn't going down smoothly....I'm amazed...I thought we were done Starphucking...

Holfresh, seriously, have you read anything in this thread or in the 18pages long Tmac thread? Do you really think Walsh is willing to part with Hill, etc just for TMac? Come on bro, you know its for the cap space and possibilty to offer two max contracts.

holfresh
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2/16/2010  7:43 PM
Uptown wrote:
holfresh wrote:Hey If Walsh and MDA gives up draft picks to bring in Tracy McGrady, the Regime Change treads begins...They sold us on rebuilding, now we are trying to do McGrady and his agent a solid by giving away our future...AGAIN...NO...Apparently Walsh is good friends with his agent...This isn't going down smoothly....I'm amazed...I thought we were done Starphucking...

Holfresh, seriously, have you read anything in this thread or in the 18pages long Tmac thread? Do you really think Walsh is willing to part with Hill, etc just for TMac? Come on bro, you know its for the cap space and possibilty to offer two max contracts.

Hope u are right bro..Just got back from doing some shopping and it's all over sports talk radio the Knicks might give up future picks...hope u are right..

azamatbagatov
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2/16/2010  9:38 PM
It's amazing that all of the former Isiah jock riders on this board and from some other boards who were pleading for patience after Isiah's fifth year on the job are the same ones not giving Walsh no more then 1 1/2 season for his plan to work and a ready to run him out of town.

You know, a plan. Something that hasn't been in place in our front office since Ernie Grunfield was in charge. It's sad to see.

"I want to leave a legacy." ~ Isiah Thomas
CrushAlot
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2/16/2010  10:29 PM
azamatbagatov wrote:It's amazing that all of the former Isiah jock riders on this board and from some other boards who were pleading for patience after Isiah's fifth year on the job are the same ones not giving Walsh no more then 1 1/2 season for his plan to work and a ready to run him out of town.

You know, a plan. Something that hasn't been in place in our front office since Ernie Grunfield was in charge. It's sad to see.

I think Ernie got a pick when he traded for LoHaus and Reid. He also got cap space without giving up a pick.

I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
oohah
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2/19/2010  2:09 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/19/2010  2:14 AM
Childs2Dudley wrote:
Heh. what concept of "WE ARE NOT TAKING ON FUTURE SALARY" don't you understand? NOBODY is trading for marbury unless they're unloading garbage contracts on you. just like how nearly every other expiring deal SAVES the team trading for the expiring deal money. it's not that hard of a concept to understand. team A trades expiring contract to team B to save money. team B takes on extra salary to save team A money on future long-term salary. team A does not trade for a $23 million expiring clown for the hell of it. team B does not trade the $23 million expiring clown if they are getting back long term contracts. in case you didn't realize, team B would be the Knicks.

Did you just notice that the Knicks traded this past years lottery pick, Larry Hughes Expiring contract, swapped next years first-round pick and gave up the next years first round pick? DO you realize that Houston could be collecting Lottery picks from the Knicks from this trade?

A) What some of you guys don't seem to understand is that dumping salary is not a goal in and of itself. The goal is to build a good team. Trading for a really good player is no different from signing a really good player. The actual goal is to build a good team...what part of that do you not understand?

B) Please don't tell me that the only thing you can get back when you trade an expiring contract is a sh!t load of salary. Sometimes you can get good players. Sometimes you can get good picks. Sometimes you get a mix.

C) It's all about options. Sometimes you shoot, sometimes you drive, sometimes you pass. The Knicks only seem to be able to think in one mode.

***

1) And please stop telling me that there was no way that the Knicks could get an asset for Marbury except for bad contracts. You don't know that. A 23 million dollar expiring contract is an extremely valuable asset regardless of the player -- as you may now realize. You might be able to get a lottery pick, swap first-rounders, and get a future first rounder...see?

2) Maybe the Knicks could have gotten something for Marury, maybe not. All we know for sure is that after D'Antoni banished him (Without Walsh's blessing) it was nearly impossible to even explore a trade him because there was no way to showcase him.

3) Tracy McGrady is a well-known loser malcontent whose career could very well be finished due to his knee, and an avalanche of picks and good players were just traded for him...see?

***

BONUS ++++ ---> And here is what it boils down to: The Knicks just traded this year's lottery pick, swapped next year's first rounder, and traded another first round pick just to dump a 6.5 million dollar contract.

Let me repeat: This past season's lottery pick, a swap of a first round pick, and another first round pick JUST_TO_DUMP_A_6.5_MILLION_DOLLAR_CONTRACT!!!

That is simply insanity. If the Knicks do not get LeBron, and end up with Bosh or Stoudemire, then they may have just as well kept Zach Randolph.

Yes, I am dead freaking on!

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
If The Knicks Trade For McGrady The Irony Is Palpable...

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