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Has D'Antoni finally gotten over Duhon?
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AnubisADL
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2/4/2010  2:17 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:You think he is benching Duhon so he doesn't look bad? Are you silly? Why wouldn't D'antoni do what he always does against top PGs--i.e. let Jeffries cover them? Your theory is defunct.

Jefferies on Jennings.

You do realize Jennings torches other quick PG's. What do you think he will do to Jefferies.

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TMS
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2/4/2010  2:18 PM
MDA is benching Duhon because the situation is now desperate & he's looking for answers any way he can get them... thing is, he should have realized the depth of the situation before we even had that 3 game losing stretch & shouldn't have been so damn inflexible... IMO the rotation should be open to change from game to game if that's what is needed to win that game... if a certain player doesn't have it going on a particular night, then he should be open to using someone else on the bench... that way everyone stays ready... when you deploy the same 8 guys night in & night out, it's hard for the other guys to stay sharp, particularly guys who are used to playing regularly in the rotation... for Nate to do what he did the first night he got back into the rotation in ATL was impressive to say the least... u can't expect everyone to have a night like that after several consecutive DNP's, not even Nate... yeah, i know these guys are professionals & get paid to stay ready, i get all that... let's stick to reality here, that doesn't always happen now does it? guys come into games after a long layoff & it takes a while for them to get back into the flow & regain their rhythm... it happens to the best of them... if MDA truly believes in the stuff he says, then Duhon's benching should have happened a long time ago.
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nixluva
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2/4/2010  2:21 PM
I'm still trying to understand the level of criticism that MDA gets when EVERYONE knows that he doesn't have a PG on this team he can trust to run the team consistently. He had no choice but to try and see if Duhon could get out of his funk and play better. When Duhon is on his game he's the best we have at running the point. It's just reached a point where he had to let it go and that's all there is to it.

Perhaps it's just too easy to armchair coach the team and say you would put Nate in there, but what did Nate do early on to suggest he was MATURE enough to be given the reigns for the team? He was acting like a clown and that had to concern MDA. Now he's giving Nate another chance to show something and maybe he'll step up. This wasn't an automatic move to be made much earlier as seems to be suggested by some.

AnubisADL
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2/4/2010  2:26 PM
nixluva wrote:I'm still trying to understand the level of criticism that MDA gets when EVERYONE knows that he doesn't have a PG on this team he can trust to run the team consistently. He had no choice but to try and see if Duhon could get out of his funk and play better. When Duhon is on his game he's the best we have at running the point. It's just reached a point where he had to let it go and that's all there is to it.

Perhaps it's just too easy to armchair coach the team and say you would put Nate in there, but what did Nate do early on to suggest he was MATURE enough to be given the reigns for the team? He was acting like a clown and that had to concern MDA. Now he's giving Nate another chance to show something and maybe he'll step up. This wasn't an automatic move to be made much earlier as seems to be suggested by some.

D'Antoni could have had Jason Williams or Jamal Tinsley this summer for likely the minimum. He didnt want them and wanted Duhon so he made his bed and now he gets to lay in it.

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TMS
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2/4/2010  2:30 PM
nixluva wrote:I'm still trying to understand the level of criticism that MDA gets when EVERYONE knows that he doesn't have a PG on this team he can trust to run the team consistently. He had no choice but to try and see if Duhon could get out of his funk and play better. When Duhon is on his game he's the best we have at running the point. It's just reached a point where he had to let it go and that's all there is to it.

Perhaps it's just too easy to armchair coach the team and say you would put Nate in there, but what did Nate do early on to suggest he was MATURE enough to be given the reigns for the team? He was acting like a clown and that had to concern MDA. Now he's giving Nate another chance to show something and maybe he'll step up. This wasn't an automatic move to be made much earlier as seems to be suggested by some.

we were losing games all of January & Duhon was struggling big time... it doesn't take an armchair coach to hold MDA up to his own word... all you guys ever say is that MDA goes with his best guys out there & if you suck, you sit... why wasn't Duhon sitting before now? wasn't it obvious the formula MDA was going with was no longer working 2 weeks into January? after losing 6 of 9 games before the recent 3 game losing stretch, was it not fair to say a change was in order? it's true, none of us are as qualified to coach an NBA team as MDA is as you're so fond of reminding everyone in every post you make, but that doesn't mean we're not allowed to question some of the moves, or non-moves, if we see this team struggling to get wins, does it?

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Andrew
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2/4/2010  2:41 PM
AnubisADL wrote:D'Antoni could have had Jason Williams or Jamal Tinsley this summer for likely the minimum. He didnt want them and wanted Duhon so he made his bed and now he gets to lay in it.

I would like to hear your rational explaination on why JW would choose NY over Orlando.

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AnubisADL
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2/4/2010  2:42 PM
Andrew wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:D'Antoni could have had Jason Williams or Jamal Tinsley this summer for likely the minimum. He didnt want them and wanted Duhon so he made his bed and now he gets to lay in it.

I would like to hear your rational explaination on why JW would choose NY over Orlando.

Playing time and money.

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EwingsGlass
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2/4/2010  2:44 PM
AnubisADL wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:You think he is benching Duhon so he doesn't look bad? Are you silly? Why wouldn't D'antoni do what he always does against top PGs--i.e. let Jeffries cover them? Your theory is defunct.

Jefferies on Jennings.

You do realize Jennings torches other quick PG's. What do you think he will do to Jefferies.

That's pure rhetoric and does nothing to support your point. How does publicly announcing that Duhon lost his starting position protect Duhon in any feasible manner? Clearly it doesn't.

You know I gonna spin wit it
nixluva
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2/4/2010  2:49 PM
TMS wrote:
nixluva wrote:I'm still trying to understand the level of criticism that MDA gets when EVERYONE knows that he doesn't have a PG on this team he can trust to run the team consistently. He had no choice but to try and see if Duhon could get out of his funk and play better. When Duhon is on his game he's the best we have at running the point. It's just reached a point where he had to let it go and that's all there is to it.

Perhaps it's just too easy to armchair coach the team and say you would put Nate in there, but what did Nate do early on to suggest he was MATURE enough to be given the reigns for the team? He was acting like a clown and that had to concern MDA. Now he's giving Nate another chance to show something and maybe he'll step up. This wasn't an automatic move to be made much earlier as seems to be suggested by some.

we were losing games all of January & Duhon was struggling big time... it doesn't take an armchair coach to hold MDA up to his own word... all you guys ever say is that MDA goes with his best guys out there & if you suck, you sit... why wasn't Duhon sitting before now? wasn't it obvious the formula MDA was going with was no longer working 2 weeks into January? after losing 6 of 9 games before the recent 3 game losing stretch, was it not fair to say a change was in order? it's true, none of us are as qualified to coach an NBA team as MDA is as you're so fond of reminding everyone in every post you make, but that doesn't mean we're not allowed to question some of the moves, or non-moves, if we see this team struggling to get wins, does it?

I'm just sayin that he's the one at every single practice and game seeing the things we might miss that go into running a team properly. Duhon was worth giving more than the usual look to see if he could get it fixed. Sure he could've given up sooner, but as a coach he knows that there was more upside in trying to see if he could get him going again and keeping Nate and the other guards in their more natural roles as SG's and backups for Duhon.

If Nate does find success it would be a big bonus and a bit of a surprise, cuz he's never consistently shown that he can run a team. This is why MDA would go so long with Duhon when it was obvious he was playing poorly and hurting the team. We were looking for another PG this summer for a reason. If we already had that guy we wouldn't have been so hard up to add one.

AnubisADL
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2/4/2010  2:52 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:You think he is benching Duhon so he doesn't look bad? Are you silly? Why wouldn't D'antoni do what he always does against top PGs--i.e. let Jeffries cover them? Your theory is defunct.

Jefferies on Jennings.

You do realize Jennings torches other quick PG's. What do you think he will do to Jefferies.

That's pure rhetoric and does nothing to support your point. How does publicly announcing that Duhon lost his starting position protect Duhon in any feasible manner? Clearly it doesn't.

Jennings has played very well this season against smaller PG's. Knowing that I find it hard to understand why would D'Antoni would start a short PG against him. Setting Robinson up for failure.

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Andrew
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2/4/2010  2:53 PM
AnubisADL wrote:
Andrew wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:D'Antoni could have had Jason Williams or Jamal Tinsley this summer for likely the minimum. He didnt want them and wanted Duhon so he made his bed and now he gets to lay in it.

I would like to hear your rational explaination on why JW would choose NY over Orlando.

Playing time and money.

Is the minimum more in NY than it is in Orlando?

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AnubisADL
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2/4/2010  2:54 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/4/2010  2:55 PM
Andrew wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:
Andrew wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:D'Antoni could have had Jason Williams or Jamal Tinsley this summer for likely the minimum. He didnt want them and wanted Duhon so he made his bed and now he gets to lay in it.

I would like to hear your rational explaination on why JW would choose NY over Orlando.

Playing time and money.

Is the minimum more in NY than it is in Orlando?

We had the full MLE to offer. Therefore we could have paid him more than the minimum.

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Andrew
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2/4/2010  2:56 PM
AnubisADL, you are now changing your statement. You said we could have had him for the min.
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TMS
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2/4/2010  3:03 PM
nixluva wrote:
TMS wrote:
nixluva wrote:I'm still trying to understand the level of criticism that MDA gets when EVERYONE knows that he doesn't have a PG on this team he can trust to run the team consistently. He had no choice but to try and see if Duhon could get out of his funk and play better. When Duhon is on his game he's the best we have at running the point. It's just reached a point where he had to let it go and that's all there is to it.

Perhaps it's just too easy to armchair coach the team and say you would put Nate in there, but what did Nate do early on to suggest he was MATURE enough to be given the reigns for the team? He was acting like a clown and that had to concern MDA. Now he's giving Nate another chance to show something and maybe he'll step up. This wasn't an automatic move to be made much earlier as seems to be suggested by some.

we were losing games all of January & Duhon was struggling big time... it doesn't take an armchair coach to hold MDA up to his own word... all you guys ever say is that MDA goes with his best guys out there & if you suck, you sit... why wasn't Duhon sitting before now? wasn't it obvious the formula MDA was going with was no longer working 2 weeks into January? after losing 6 of 9 games before the recent 3 game losing stretch, was it not fair to say a change was in order? it's true, none of us are as qualified to coach an NBA team as MDA is as you're so fond of reminding everyone in every post you make, but that doesn't mean we're not allowed to question some of the moves, or non-moves, if we see this team struggling to get wins, does it?

I'm just sayin that he's the one at every single practice and game seeing the things we might miss that go into running a team properly. Duhon was worth giving more than the usual look to see if he could get it fixed. Sure he could've given up sooner, but as a coach he knows that there was more upside in trying to see if he could get him going again and keeping Nate and the other guards in their more natural roles as SG's and backups for Duhon.

If Nate does find success it would be a big bonus and a bit of a surprise, cuz he's never consistently shown that he can run a team. This is why MDA would go so long with Duhon when it was obvious he was playing poorly and hurting the team. We were looking for another PG this summer for a reason. If we already had that guy we wouldn't have been so hard up to add one.

i don't expect Nate to play any differently than he's played his entire career... he's not going to be the answer either at the PG position... this is not about placing blame on MDA as much as it is just trying to find some kinda of method to his madness, cuz the things he says & the things he does are very contradictory at times... he says he plays the guys who give us the best chance to win games... do u think playing Bender over Hughes, Hill or even Marcus Landry gives us the best chance to win games? do u think playing Jeffries 35+ a night gives us the best chance to win games? do u think sticking w/Duhon through all his shooting struggles this season has benefitted the Knicks & won more ballgames for us? i think if he would have been more flexible w/his rotations this season, we could have avoided a lot of the unecessary drama with Nate & Hughes as well... again, we're a crappy team with guys who are so 1 dimensional i don't see how MDA could have been so set on playing the same guys every night & shortening the rotation the way he did... our biggest weakness this year has been our lack of defense, & yet guys like Darko, Hughes, Hill, & Toney Douglas, guys who are all defensive minded players, have found themselves out of the rotation for chunks of the season... does that make any sense to u? cuz if it does please explain to me why MDA refuses to use defensive minded players & then harps about the team's lack of defensive intensity after games we lose.

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AnubisADL
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2/4/2010  3:26 PM
Andrew wrote:AnubisADL, you are now changing your statement. You said we could have had him for the min.

Jason Williams worked out for us first. We passed on him. Jason Williams was the 3rd PG for Orlando. He could have been the 2nd PG off the bench for us.

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oohah
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2/4/2010  3:45 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/4/2010  3:48 PM
PresIke wrote:clearly mda...sorry...danphoney...is far too stubborn...since nate and incarcerated beardface played tonight.

he ain't my god either...just a coach who seems to get it...

Yeah, he gets it about 6 months after the rest of the world. Nate Robinson is better than Duhon. end of story...finito.

oohah

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2/4/2010  3:52 PM
nyk4ever wrote:
iSergio wrote:
fishmike wrote:
franco12 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
franco12 wrote:
D'Antoni is a bad coach because it took him this long to yank Duhon.
Hughes and Duhon are different situations. If Hughes plays poorly other guys can take his minutes. The options arent good for replacing Duhon. We have no other typical PG. Nate is a turnover prone scorer and Douglas dont run an offense at all. I dont see any relation. Knicks needed Duhon to get out of his funk and he just hasnt. I would say 10-15 games is a fair stretch. Now he sits. I guess if MDA sat Duhon 2 weeks ago you would think he's a good coach?

I wouldn't have replaced Duhon, but I would have given minutes to either Hughes or Douglas, splitting their time evenly.

My argument is that as bad as a PG either Hughes, Douglas or Nate would be over Duhon, their positives and their negatives outweigh Duhon's positives & negatives.

Honestly, the offense is predicated on ball movement and being able to hit the open shot. Nate gives you that, and he can break down a defense better than anyone else.

Hughes is going to be hot and cold, but he plays great defense. Same for Douglas.

Maybe Duhon is really partying too much. I've discredited the rumors and the pictures, but maybe the dude isn't taking things seriously.

Duhon does one thing really really well that none of those guys do, and thats take care of the ball. The Knicks dont block a lot of shots, arent great defensively and are an average rebounding team. They cannot afford to turn the ball over. The won the other day Duhon had 8 assists and zero turnovers in 30 plus minutes. I can promise you that is why the coach gives him a longer leash.

Chris Duhon's assist to turnover ratio is so midsleading. He doesn't turn the ball over because he doesn't make plays.

im not trying to defend duhon too much here, but fish has a point.

what exactly does "doesn't make plays" mean? He still had 8 assists with 0 turnovers, that's taking care of the ball no matter how slice it.

Chris Duhon doesn't really create shots for his teammates. I'm willing to bet like 80% of his assists come from pick-and-rolls with David Lee. He's not an aggressive playmaker which is why I don't take his assists to turnover ratio too seriously. He's a limited, one dimensional, uncreative and very predictable PG. I don't think we'll lose anything with Nate Robinson and Toney Douglas running the show.

nixluva
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2/4/2010  4:26 PM
TMS wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TMS wrote:
nixluva wrote:I'm still trying to understand the level of criticism that MDA gets when EVERYONE knows that he doesn't have a PG on this team he can trust to run the team consistently. He had no choice but to try and see if Duhon could get out of his funk and play better. When Duhon is on his game he's the best we have at running the point. It's just reached a point where he had to let it go and that's all there is to it.

Perhaps it's just too easy to armchair coach the team and say you would put Nate in there, but what did Nate do early on to suggest he was MATURE enough to be given the reigns for the team? He was acting like a clown and that had to concern MDA. Now he's giving Nate another chance to show something and maybe he'll step up. This wasn't an automatic move to be made much earlier as seems to be suggested by some.

we were losing games all of January & Duhon was struggling big time... it doesn't take an armchair coach to hold MDA up to his own word... all you guys ever say is that MDA goes with his best guys out there & if you suck, you sit... why wasn't Duhon sitting before now? wasn't it obvious the formula MDA was going with was no longer working 2 weeks into January? after losing 6 of 9 games before the recent 3 game losing stretch, was it not fair to say a change was in order? it's true, none of us are as qualified to coach an NBA team as MDA is as you're so fond of reminding everyone in every post you make, but that doesn't mean we're not allowed to question some of the moves, or non-moves, if we see this team struggling to get wins, does it?

I'm just sayin that he's the one at every single practice and game seeing the things we might miss that go into running a team properly. Duhon was worth giving more than the usual look to see if he could get it fixed. Sure he could've given up sooner, but as a coach he knows that there was more upside in trying to see if he could get him going again and keeping Nate and the other guards in their more natural roles as SG's and backups for Duhon.

If Nate does find success it would be a big bonus and a bit of a surprise, cuz he's never consistently shown that he can run a team. This is why MDA would go so long with Duhon when it was obvious he was playing poorly and hurting the team. We were looking for another PG this summer for a reason. If we already had that guy we wouldn't have been so hard up to add one.

i don't expect Nate to play any differently than he's played his entire career... he's not going to be the answer either at the PG position... this is not about placing blame on MDA as much as it is just trying to find some kinda of method to his madness, cuz the things he says & the things he does are very contradictory at times... he says he plays the guys who give us the best chance to win games... do u think playing Bender over Hughes, Hill or even Marcus Landry gives us the best chance to win games? do u think playing Jeffries 35+ a night gives us the best chance to win games? do u think sticking w/Duhon through all his shooting struggles this season has benefitted the Knicks & won more ballgames for us? i think if he would have been more flexible w/his rotations this season, we could have avoided a lot of the unecessary drama with Nate & Hughes as well... again, we're a crappy team with guys who are so 1 dimensional i don't see how MDA could have been so set on playing the same guys every night & shortening the rotation the way he did... our biggest weakness this year has been our lack of defense, & yet guys like Darko, Hughes, Hill, & Toney Douglas, guys who are all defensive minded players, have found themselves out of the rotation for chunks of the season... does that make any sense to u? cuz if it does please explain to me why MDA refuses to use defensive minded players & then harps about the team's lack of defensive intensity after games we lose.

Just how much of a difference would it have made to give the minutes that Bender got to Hughes or Darko? Everyone had a chance to show what they can do both in practice and in games. All you are suggesting is a rearranging of the deck chairs. It's not like we have so many other great options that weren't explored. Any coach trying to get wins out of this team would be faced with the same problem. There aren't enough parts to put a really consistent rotation together that solves all the problems. MDA like any coach finds a group he feels he can trust or at least knows what he's getting from minute to minute. It really doesn't matter if you switch out Landry, Hughes, TD, Bender, Darko ... all of these guys are bit players at the end of the rotation. They're not impactful nor consistent enough to trust with more. Hill is green and learning, but at least he has more potential, so I would have no problem with him getting more minutes.

TMS
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2/4/2010  4:53 PM
it's not just Bender, u can shave a few minutes off Fishlips' & Duhon's minutes & get 1 of those guys into the regular rotation... when you have 4 of your best defensive players languishing on the bench not getting run, it makes sense to play some of those guys when your team is lacking in defense... our team has allowed an average of 112 pts. in the last 6 games before last night... don't sit there & tell me someone like Hughes, TD, Hill or even Darko couldn't have made a positive impact when guys were shooting wide open 3's on the perimeter & scoring in the paint at will on us throughout that stretch.
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nixluva
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2/4/2010  5:44 PM
TMS wrote:it's not just Bender, u can shave a few minutes off Fishlips' & Duhon's minutes & get 1 of those guys into the regular rotation... when you have 4 of your best defensive players languishing on the bench not getting run, it makes sense to play some of those guys when your team is lacking in defense... our team has allowed an average of 112 pts. in the last 6 games before last night... don't sit there & tell me someone like Hughes, TD, Hill or even Darko couldn't have made a positive impact when guys were shooting wide open 3's on the perimeter & scoring in the paint at will on us throughout that stretch.

1ST of all, Darko is done! Why even bring up his name? 2. Hughes has his moments but he was so bad offensively that it effected his D. Maybe he's out of the funk now, but he was sitting cuz he wasn't helping.
3. Hill was in the mix in Jan. avg 11 mins a game. Before that for a while the team was doing well so I can see MDA giving those guys a chance to play thru a rough spot. I hope he gets to play more, but I wouldn't say he's necessarily a difference maker at this point in his career. 4. TD could be of help at times, but let's not overstate his readiness to be a consistent contributor.

The thing is there may have been a small boost we could get from some of these guys, but in reality none of them offer a real solution to our big problems. It seems like nitpicking to me to hold MDA's feet to the fire over any of these guys.

Has D'Antoni finally gotten over Duhon?

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