GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:We just happen to have been ridiculously lucky to be born in a 1st world country.

Caseloads wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:We just happen to have been ridiculously lucky to be born in a 1st world country.

+1: now let us make the most of it.

+2

firefly wrote:Yeah, I read what he said, and theres not a single word in there worthy of legitimate discourse in the current situation.

Some opinions are best left unstated when a tragedy like the one Haiti is experiencing now hits an area of the world. Reminds me of comments made by some of the right wing preacher nuts when Katrina and the Tsunami hit a few years ago.

Step up or shut up.

Paladin55 wrote:Shirley should have kept his wallet and his mouth zipped, or voiced a more "considered" form of criticism and given his $$ to an organization which he feels will help a person in need and not support a corrupt system. You don't say what he said in the way he said it, especially if you have the kind of public forum which amplifies your words.

Some opinions are best left unstated when a tragedy like the one Haiti is experiencing now hits an area of the world. Reminds me of comments made by some of the right wing preacher nuts when the Katrina and the Tsunami hit a few years ago.

Step up or shut up.

How about you shut up--you don't get it--and stop with the act holier than tho crp. It's not about not having sympathy--it's all about this---->

Port-au-Prince street vendors can be seen openly selling U.S.-donated rice by the cupful from bags marked "not for resale."

Fears of official corruption surrounding the food aid also are surfacing.

Paul Coroleuski of the U.S.-based Convoy of Hope, which has distributed aid in Haiti for three years, said he has more than 100 tons of food in a Port-au-Prince warehouse ready to hand out, but it has been delayed for days by Haitian officials who say they will take over distribution.

Private agencies like his worry that Haitian officials "will do what they always have done, which is the government takes care of the government and the people are secondary," he said.

Haitian officials denied the government plans to take over food distribution from private agencies.

Coroleuski's frustration and distrust of the government is echoed in Port-au-Prince's streets.

"If they turn it over to the Haitian government, they would take it all for themselves," said Muller Bellegarde, 30, as he waited for food in the unrelenting tropical sun.

Haitians remember that when the government took charge of delivering international aid to the city of Gonaives after deadly hurricane floods in 2008, much of it ended up sold on the black market.

Two different realities--the one people make up in their minds--and the one that has devastated Haiti over 100 years+ --there is no difference today then last month--which is absolutely horrible yet still true. The Government is corrupt and the people of Haiti destroyed their own land over the last 70 years. Aid and money sound nice[hll weve been doing it for 100 years]--maybe a few pennies hit their target but that doesn't solve the problem--the earthquake only brings it out. People have died and are going to die--and we can send money to we are blue in the face but it isnt changing anything my friends.

BRIGGS wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:Shirley should have kept his wallet and his mouth zipped, or voiced a more "considered" form of criticism and given his $$ to an organization which he feels will help a person in need and not support a corrupt system. You don't say what he said in the way he said it, especially if you have the kind of public forum which amplifies your words.

Some opinions are best left unstated when a tragedy like the one Haiti is experiencing now hits an area of the world. Reminds me of comments made by some of the right wing preacher nuts when the Katrina and the Tsunami hit a few years ago.

Step up or shut up.

How about you shut up--you don't get it--and stop with the act holier than tho crp. It's not about not having sympathy--it's all about this---->

Port-au-Prince street vendors can be seen openly selling U.S.-donated rice by the cupful from bags marked "not for resale."

Fears of official corruption surrounding the food aid also are surfacing.

Paul Coroleuski of the U.S.-based Convoy of Hope, which has distributed aid in Haiti for three years, said he has more than 100 tons of food in a Port-au-Prince warehouse ready to hand out, but it has been delayed for days by Haitian officials who say they will take over distribution.

Private agencies like his worry that Haitian officials "will do what they always have done, which is the government takes care of the government and the people are secondary," he said.

...Two different realities--the one people make up in their minds--and the one that has devastated Haiti over 100 years+ --there is no difference today then last month--which is absolutely horrible yet still true. The Government is corrupt and the people of Haiti destroyed their own land over the last 70 years. Aid and money sound nice[hll weve been doing it for 100 years]--maybe a few pennies hit their target but that doesn't solve the problem--the earthquake only brings it out. People have died and are going to die--and we can send money to we are blue in the face but it isnt changing anything my friends.

The put up/ shut up comment was not really directed at folks around here. To be honest, the things we say on UK mean **** to the rest of the world. The original thread was about Shirley's comments. If you have a national stage, or any "forum" where large groups of people may hear or read your opinion, you need to know how to say things.

I read the same reports of certain guys pushing themselves to the front of lines to take food and others just taking it from weaker people after they had gotten it from relief workers. I understand the concept of a black market. I gave some $$ early on, but have not given more recently because I have read the same reports which upset you so much. I will donate more $$ when things settle down a bit.

Shirley goes way beyond this in his column, perhaps attempting to come up with some justification for not giving which mitigates the guilt he may have felt because others were donating $$ and he was not.

He tries to grapple with the issue of why humans choose to do certain things which may seem illogical, foolish, or downright dangerous to some- a topic worth discussing in certain venues if you have the depth to express yourself with some degree of intelligence and understanding- but he comes across as a somewhat ignorant guy who probably got angered after listening to one of his favorite right wing radio hosts ranting about the situation in Haiti.

I don't think I have a "holier than thou" attitude on this issue, but I do understand that there is a way to say things which is appropriate, and ways which are not. I have no idea what you do for a living or how you interrelate with your peers outside of the cyberworld, but there are accepted ways for a person to say things without sounding like Limbaugh, Hannity,Savage, Pat Robertson, or Jerry Falwell.

And ALWAYS remember that, historically, nothing goes on in this hemisphere without the U.S. having a hand in it. From the end of the 19th Century to today, our fingerprints are all over Latin America. We have propped up dictators, been involved in the assassination of elected leaders, and flexed our military might on numerous occasions. Lets not be naive here, Briggs, the U.S. always has to check out a mirror when looking at why things are as they are in Latin America.

orangeblobman wrote:

hey you want a band-aid for that paladin?

I'm not as much of a bleeding heart as you think, bigorangeguy, but your concern is noted.

BRIGGS wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:Shirley should have kept his wallet and his mouth zipped, or voiced a more "considered" form of criticism and given his $$ to an organization which he feels will help a person in need and not support a corrupt system. You don't say what he said in the way he said it, especially if you have the kind of public forum which amplifies your words.

Some opinions are best left unstated when a tragedy like the one Haiti is experiencing now hits an area of the world. Reminds me of comments made by some of the right wing preacher nuts when the Katrina and the Tsunami hit a few years ago.

Step up or shut up.

How about you shut up--you don't get it--and stop with the act holier than tho crp. It's not about not having sympathy--it's all about this---->

Port-au-Prince street vendors can be seen openly selling U.S.-donated rice by the cupful from bags marked "not for resale."

Fears of official corruption surrounding the food aid also are surfacing.

Paul Coroleuski of the U.S.-based Convoy of Hope, which has distributed aid in Haiti for three years, said he has more than 100 tons of food in a Port-au-Prince warehouse ready to hand out, but it has been delayed for days by Haitian officials who say they will take over distribution.

Private agencies like his worry that Haitian officials "will do what they always have done, which is the government takes care of the government and the people are secondary," he said.

...Two different realities--the one people make up in their minds--and the one that has devastated Haiti over 100 years+ --there is no difference today then last month--which is absolutely horrible yet still true. The Government is corrupt and the people of Haiti destroyed their own land over the last 70 years. Aid and money sound nice[hll weve been doing it for 100 years]--maybe a few pennies hit their target but that doesn't solve the problem--the earthquake only brings it out. People have died and are going to die--and we can send money to we are blue in the face but it isnt changing anything my friends.

Very touchy Briggs! I make a general comment and you take it personally?! You should chill out a bit.

The put up/ shut up comment was not really directed at folks around here. To be honest, the things we say on UK mean **** to the rest of the world. The original thread was about Shirley's comments. If you have a national stage, or any "forum" where large groups of people may hear or read your opinion, you need to know how to say things.

I read the same reports of certain guys pushing themselves to the front of lines to take food and others just taking it from weaker people after they had gotten it from relief workers. I understand the concept of a black market. I gave some $$ early on, but have not given more recently because I have read the same reports which upset you so much. I will donate more $$ when things settle down a bit.

Shirley goes way beyond this in his column, perhaps attempting to come up with some justification for not giving which mitigates the guilt he may have felt because others were donating $$ and he was not.

He tries to grapple with the issue of why humans choose to do certain things which may seem illogical, foolish, or downright dangerous to some- a topic worth discussing in certain venues if you have the depth to express yourself with some degree of intelligence and understanding- but he comes across as a somewhat ignorant guy who probably got angered after listening to one of his favorite right wing radio hosts ranting about the situation in Haiti.

I don't think I have a "holier than thou" attitude on this issue, but I do understand that there is a way to say things which is appropriate, and ways which are not. I have no idea what you do for a living or how you interrelate with your peers outside of the cyberworld, but there are accepted ways for a person to say things without sounding like Limbaugh, Hannity,Savage, Pat Robertson, or Jerry Falwell.

And ALWAYS remember that, historically, nothing goes on in this hemisphere without the U.S. having a hand in it. From the end of the 19th Century to today, our fingerprints are all over Latin America. We have propped up dictators, been involved in the assassination of elected leaders, and flexed our military might on numerous occasions. Lets not be naive here, Briggs, the U.S. always has to check out a mirror when looking at why things are as they are in Latin America.

This is a touchy situation--Im sorry if I directed a misplaced sentiment or if I read something wrong.

Haiti does need money--but what this earthquake represents is an opportunity for the long term health of Haiti--this is what the country needs. The country needs responsible powerful individuals who will invest in the long term viability of this country and it's oppressed people. Not that there isnt dramatic short term need--but with the status quo--the people who need help the most--arent going to get your $$$$ help in any form unless some serious people take the time to rebuild the entire country and how it operates today yesterday. This is the point I am trying to make. I agree that Paul Shirley sounds like an arse in a good portion of his speech but Haiti and it's people do have culpability here and that cannot be lost or swept under the rug either. They knew this was coming--they were well warned over several years---and I agree with you the US Canada and France have a hand in Haiti--I mean they contribute to nearly 50% of their $$$ in yearly contributions. This earthquake must be seen as an opportunity to rebuild the entire culture rather than throwing a kid a glass of water and a hand full of rice-they are already used to that.

If you think that any county (or society if you will) can be "progressed" from outside you are delusional.
Money will do no good for this also. Haiti people need to grow up as a society. They are still in 19th century and world already in 21st.
And this will take its time. If they will not be able to do this they will disappear as nation altogether. And this is nothing wrong about -it's normal historical process.
What world should do now is to minimize the suffering of real people - feed the hungry, heal injured, adopt orphans, give some basic shelter to homeless.
All this "big future plans" are total BS.
And about the dude who wrote this - you cannot blame little child for getting in trouble. And Haiti people are little orphans of human race. So just help them and do not ask for more.

1. Haiti was a slave colony to the French
2. They rebelled against their masters that set off a freedom wave that ultimately led to liberty for other colonies in South America
3. The Haitian rebellion weakened the French to the point that they sold us most of their lands on the mainland in the "Louisiana Purchase"
- Without that Haitian rebellion this country would be 2/3 in size of what is is now... BTW we paid 50 cents an acre on that purchase
4. Haitians were ultimately forced to pay for their Freedom from France
- The country was forced to borrow from Western Nations (Primarily the US) at unusually high interest rates back in 1825.
By the time they finally paid it off it took about 60% of their annual GDP
5. Haiti's currently owes alot of debt to Western Nations who allowed a dicator to live a ridiculously lavish lifestyle that they are still paying for today

Haiti is the poorest nation in our Hemisphere because of a very long and historical abuse of its coin by external forces.

nyvector16 wrote:It's incredible the ignorance on the issue of Haiti.
A couple of historical facts:

1. Haiti was a slave colony to the French
2. They rebelled against their masters that set off a freedom wave that ultimately led to liberty for other colonies in South America
3. The Haitian rebellion weakened the French to the point that they sold us most of their lands on the mainland in the "Louisiana Purchase"
- Without that Haitian rebellion this country would be 2/3 in size of what is is now... BTW we paid 50 cents an acre on that purchase
4. Haitians were ultimately forced to pay for their Freedom from France
- The country was forced to borrow from Western Nations (Primarily the US) at unusually high interest rates back in 1825.
By the time they finally paid it off it took about 60% of their annual GDP
5. Haiti's currently owes alot of debt to Western Nations who allowed a dicator to live a ridiculously lavish lifestyle that they are still paying for today

Haiti is the poorest nation in our Hemisphere because of a very long and historical abuse of its coin by external forces.

good stuff.. I do find what the US paid for louisana per acre to be all over the place. I found anything from .03 cents per acre to .30cents.. LOL. all I know it was about 800k square miles purchased for roughly 15 million. either way.. one of the greatest deals in mankinds recorded history..

good stuff man...