orangeblobman wrote:well hold on now, is JJ on the end of a full MLE contract? Is that the case? If that's the case, I give him that full MLE again. the damage he does to opposing guards and the SHOT SWATTING ABILITY he has displayed over the last few weeks, i mean, it's clear cut. This guy is worth a full MLE if you think of it that way. is he an offensive liability? sure, a little, but he's in there, and yesterday he made a few layups, completed them. he also has expanded his range. he works on that jumper during the off season and keeps his confidence up, this guy is a keeper. no jokes, man. did you see that SWAT he had yesterday, at the end of the game? you can't teach that.

i reiterate, as talented and as much potential this roster has, we're not talking playoffs without him. you take jeffries out, we're not a playoff team. it's simple. and i guess, you know, you gotta weigh "make playoffs or clear room". but as some posters have already said, it might fine to wait with what we got, see how it develops, and not put all our hopes and dreams into free agent 2010. this team, 1-9 start aside, is right in the middle of the nba pack or higher. that means 2nd round isn't out of the question.

I envy your faith in JJ, but I think he is a defensive stopper and role player and not a full MLE kind of guy. He brings defensive intensity and his ability to guard 1 to 5 is relatively un-paralleled in the NBA, but I wouldn't risk the ability to sign a max fa (or a second max fa) to re-sign JJ...

EwingsGlass wrote:

orangeblobman wrote:well hold on now, is JJ on the end of a full MLE contract? Is that the case? If that's the case, I give him that full MLE again. the damage he does to opposing guards and the SHOT SWATTING ABILITY he has displayed over the last few weeks, i mean, it's clear cut. This guy is worth a full MLE if you think of it that way. is he an offensive liability? sure, a little, but he's in there, and yesterday he made a few layups, completed them. he also has expanded his range. he works on that jumper during the off season and keeps his confidence up, this guy is a keeper. no jokes, man. did you see that SWAT he had yesterday, at the end of the game? you can't teach that.

i reiterate, as talented and as much potential this roster has, we're not talking playoffs without him. you take jeffries out, we're not a playoff team. it's simple. and i guess, you know, you gotta weigh "make playoffs or clear room". but as some posters have already said, it might fine to wait with what we got, see how it develops, and not put all our hopes and dreams into free agent 2010. this team, 1-9 start aside, is right in the middle of the nba pack or higher. that means 2nd round isn't out of the question.

I envy your faith in JJ, but I think he is a defensive stopper and role player and not a full MLE kind of guy. He brings defensive intensity and his ability to guard 1 to 5 is relatively un-paralleled in the NBA, but I wouldn't risk the ability to sign a max fa (or a second max fa) to re-sign JJ...

I wouldn't risk the ability to signa max fa, or two, either. I should be clear on that. If it's JJ or a max, obviously JJ goes. But given the development of our current roster, the pieces we have in place, what is wrong with viewing JJ as a piece of this team for the future? if we can get one max, keep this core, that's win win. Guy is definitely an NBA talent. he is coachable. he can SWAT shots, did anyone else see him swat shots the last few games?? Plus his jumper is really, honestly coming around. There was a foul, and you know how the players shoot the shot sometimes even after the whistle? Well JJ launched a three and it was a swish! I mean, this guy is willing to work, he is our defensive 'glue' (we say that before, yes?), and he is a high character guy. he's a winner.

orangeblobman wrote:

TMS wrote:who would u rather have, FL or Chris Anderson? Birdman just signed a 5 year $26 million dollar extension w/the Nuggets & u guys wanna pay FL more than that? this is madness.

had not thought of it that way. that's definitely sobering.

but then, C. Andersen is a drug liability, a potential self destruction waiting to happen. Plus, does he have the sweet J, JJ does?

OR

He can say piss off, make $7mm next year, mess up our cap and cost us a shot at resigning a guy like Lee and get a good contract the year he's a FA.

If you want the guy to essentially take a paycut to help the team you have to give something back. The 6th year is something back

orangeblobman wrote:

TMS wrote:who would u rather have, FL or Chris Anderson? Birdman just signed a 5 year $26 million dollar extension w/the Nuggets & u guys wanna pay FL more than that? this is madness.

had not thought of it that way. that's definitely sobering.

but then, C. Andersen is a drug liability, a potential self destruction waiting to happen. Plus, does he have the sweet J, JJ does?

Birdman was huge in the playoffs last year... he's an awesome shotblocker & a great finisher... FL can't even make an uncontested layup look easy... yeah, FL plays great help D & draws charges better than anyone we've had since Kurt Thomas, but beyond that he's a non factor... FL has a sweet J? u back on the pipe dude?

fishmike wrote:

TheGame wrote:

fishmike wrote:if your watching these games you can see JJ is as important as any player we have on the floor, possibly save Lee. Regardless he's very important to what the Knicks are doing right now. Obviously his cap # next year is a major problem but if one thing is clear its not a wasted roster spot. This guy plays great in this system and really is making guys around him better. He's got the highest +/- on the team.

Do you think offering him a 6 year contract at the end of this season makes sense? Do you think he would agree to take it?
6 years $30mm breaks down like this:
3.8
4.2
4.6
5.1
5.7
6.3
29.7 (total)

That would save us $3mm on the cap next year.

I don't think the CBA works like that. If you extend a guy, you still owe him the last year on his deal. The extension starts the following season after his deal would have expired.

its not an extension. Its a new contract. JJ opts out (he's got a player option) and we resign him to the above deal.

Oh, I forgot JJ has a player option like Curry. Well, there is a bit of a trust factor here, b/c I don't think NBA rules allow you to reach any binding agreements beforehand. Obviously, if Walsh promises JJ a contract, he will keep his word, but JJ will be taking a bit of a risk.

Overall, I think this is a good idea. I would probably limit it to 5 years, but I would start him at $3.8 and give him max raises. He might be able to command $4-$5 mill on the open market if he continues to play like he is playing, but I doubt anyone gives him a 5yr guaranteed contract, so he might go for the deal. It saves us $3 million off the cap, which allows us to sign a max player and still keep Lee.

93BUICK wrote:Fishmike, I think you're crazy to extend JJ for a short term $$ savings- we're lucky he's playing well now. That's enough! If we're lucky that he plays well next year or someone else takes his contract that's great but extending it longer means longer contract nightmare.
As far as the nickname goes I understand that you want to be the only Fish-person around here and that's ok.

I'm witchoo Buick.

93BUICK wrote:Fishmike, I think you're crazy to extend JJ for a short term $$ savings- we're lucky he's playing well now. That's enough! If we're lucky that he plays well next year or someone else takes his contract that's great but extending it longer means longer contract nightmare.
As far as the nickname goes I understand that you want to be the only Fish-person around here and that's ok.

offseason comes. You have $24mm in cap space.

You sign Lebron.

Now here is your choice:
You let David Lee walk because all you have to offer his is $8mm and he's taking a deal somewhere else that starts at $11.5
Say goodbye to your froncourt player that gives you 20/10 on 57% shooting everynight.
(But JJ plays his last year for $7mm and is off the books after the year).

OR

You offer JJ a 6 year $30mm deal that starts at $3.8mm which brings your cap# down and you can now offer Lee the same contract he's being offered where ever else (AND HE WILL GET OFFERS).

Thats overpaying JJ (obviously). But it changes your team drastically.

The $3mm might be a make or break # this offseason. Thats how tight this thing is.

Isnt overpaying for a guy like JJ worth being able to bring back your best frontcourt player?

To me it is... and thats 100% of what I am talking about here