martin wrote:
all i know is it seems as if you don't understand eFG%. or simple math.

efg = another useless tool by stat geeks intent on muddling and confusing the understanding of an otherwise simple game.

simple math = if gallo shoots 6-15 from 3 he made 6 but missed 9 shots. step in closer and increase your chance of making one then maybe you go 9 or 10-15 and put in a highly efficient scoring night so some stat geek doesn't have to waste paper calculating what you would've shot %-wise if you adjust for the extra this and that which goes into the fake stat called efg...and maybe new york stops letting teams back in games as well.

McK1 wrote:

martin wrote:
all i know is it seems as if you don't understand eFG%. or simple math.

efg = another useless tool by stat geeks intent on muddling and confusing the understanding of an otherwise simple game.

simple math = if gallo shoots 6-15 from 3 he made 6 but missed 9 shots. step in closer and increase your chance of making one then maybe you go 9 or 10-15 and put in a highly efficient scoring night so some stat geek doesn't have to waste paper calculating what you would've shot %-wise if you adjust for the extra this and that which goes into the fake stat called efg...and maybe new york stops letting teams back in games as well.

go even simpler: Knicks should only allow DLee to shoot the ball. Highest 2-point shooter on the team.

McK1 wrote:

martin wrote:

McK1 wrote:

martin wrote:
all i know is it seems as if you don't understand eFG%. or simple math.

efg = another useless tool by stat geeks intent on muddling and confusing the understanding of an otherwise simple game.

simple math = if gallo shoots 6-15 from 3 he made 6 but missed 9 shots. step in closer and increase your chance of making one then maybe you go 9 or 10-15 and put in a highly efficient scoring night so some stat geek doesn't have to waste paper calculating what you would've shot %-wise if you adjust for the extra this and that which goes into the fake stat called efg...and maybe new york stops letting teams back in games as well.

go even simpler: Knicks should only allow DLee to shoot the ball. Highest 2-point shooter on the team.

novel concept Phil has road to 10 titles and Pop to 4

novel concept: coach the best player in the league. Both coaches didn't stress enough 2's with Big Shot Bob.

McK1 wrote:

martin wrote:
all i know is it seems as if you don't understand eFG%. or simple math.

efg = another useless tool by stat geeks intent on muddling and confusing the understanding of an otherwise simple game.

simple math = if gallo shoots 6-15 from 3 he made 6 but missed 9 shots. step in closer and increase your chance of making one then maybe you go 9 or 10-15 and put in a highly efficient scoring night so some stat geek doesn't have to waste paper calculating what you would've shot %-wise if you adjust for the extra this and that which goes into the fake stat called efg...and maybe new york stops letting teams back in games as well.

The biggest falacy in this argument is that anyone can average 60% on two point jumpers. No one in the whole league averaged even 50% on two point jumpers last year. Only 5 guys manage 47.5% or better. SO the idea that someone is going to take a step in closer and make 60% of his jump shots is not even close to reality.

The fact is there are a lot more guys who shot 40% from three point range then there were guys who shot even 45% on jumpers from two point range.

newyorknewyork wrote:There is a method to the madness.

You know how much easier Robert Horry made Shaq and Duncan's job. Or Rasheed Wallace made Ben Wallace's job or Rashard Lewis and Turk made Dwight Howard's job.

David Lee can attribute a lot of this seasons success for the amount of spacing they have been able to provide him to grab rebounds, PNR or go one on one.

The being able to attack the paint and knock down the 3s go hand in hand. If you can't knock down the 3s then opponents will just pack the lanes and dare us to shoot. If you can't penetrate then opponents will press up on the shooters not respecting our ability to penitrate.

Our ability to penetrate recently can be attributed to our ability to knock down 3s.

Exactly! Thing is that we need the 3pt'ers to keep things open. The guys simply need to hit their shots when open. Unfortuately we don't have the breakdown talent to turn to when the 3's aren't fallin. The roster is flawed not the system. Right now we need Gallo n Al to hit shots to keep the floor open. I believe most nights we'll hit enough to win games and many nights we'll struggle. Teams will take their chances that we won't hit he shots as Miami did, but if Gallo n Al hit for their normal % we win that game.

McK1 wrote:

OldFan wrote:

McK1 wrote:

martin wrote:
all i know is it seems as if you don't understand eFG%. or simple math.

efg = another useless tool by stat geeks intent on muddling and confusing the understanding of an otherwise simple game.

simple math = if gallo shoots 6-15 from 3 he made 6 but missed 9 shots. step in closer and increase your chance of making one then maybe you go 9 or 10-15 and put in a highly efficient scoring night so some stat geek doesn't have to waste paper calculating what you would've shot %-wise if you adjust for the extra this and that which goes into the fake stat called efg...and maybe new york stops letting teams back in games as well.

The biggest falacy in this argument is that anyone can average 60% on two point jumpers. No one in the whole league averaged even 50% on two point jumpers last year. Only 5 guys manage 47.5% or better. SO the idea that someone is going to take a step in closer and make 60% of his jump shots is not even close to reality.

The fact is there are a lot more guys who shot 40% from three point range then there were guys who shot even 45% on jumpers from two point range.

we're not talking about just anyone. Galinari played more like Dirk and less like [bad back] Peja I think he hits at or near 50% instead of the 41-42 he is currently shooting.

I have no problem with Gallo taking less 3 pointers. He needs to expand his game and get inside. But trading 3 pt jump shots that you hit at 41% for 2 pt jumpers that you hit at < 50% is not a win.

Going back to the possesions argument.
4-10 - 3 pt shot = 12 pts
5-10 - 2 pt jumpers = 10 pts. (And no player in the league avgs this high a percentage and Gallo is well less).

OldFan wrote:

McK1 wrote:

OldFan wrote:

McK1 wrote:

martin wrote:
all i know is it seems as if you don't understand eFG%. or simple math.

efg = another useless tool by stat geeks intent on muddling and confusing the understanding of an otherwise simple game.

simple math = if gallo shoots 6-15 from 3 he made 6 but missed 9 shots. step in closer and increase your chance of making one then maybe you go 9 or 10-15 and put in a highly efficient scoring night so some stat geek doesn't have to waste paper calculating what you would've shot %-wise if you adjust for the extra this and that which goes into the fake stat called efg...and maybe new york stops letting teams back in games as well.

The biggest falacy in this argument is that anyone can average 60% on two point jumpers. No one in the whole league averaged even 50% on two point jumpers last year. Only 5 guys manage 47.5% or better. SO the idea that someone is going to take a step in closer and make 60% of his jump shots is not even close to reality.

The fact is there are a lot more guys who shot 40% from three point range then there were guys who shot even 45% on jumpers from two point range.

we're not talking about just anyone. Galinari played more like Dirk and less like [bad back] Peja I think he hits at or near 50% instead of the 41-42 he is currently shooting.

I have no problem with Gallo taking less 3 pointers. He needs to expand his game and get inside. But trading 3 pt jump shots that you hit at 41% for 2 pt jumpers that you hit at < 50% is not a win.

Going back to the possesions argument.
4-10 - 3 pt shot = 12 pts
5-10 - 2 pt jumpers = 10 pts. (And no player in the league avgs this high a percentage and Gallo is well less).

I really don't understand why you keep mentionioning "2 pt jumpers." 2 pters are not just jumpers. 2 pt shots are also = lay-ups and dunks aka very high percentage shots.

everybody wants to harp on how many points he gets for a make and totally ignore how many scoring opportunities are left on the floor with the misses. Most possessions end with a miss and a rebound which means if he decides his next 10 shots are 3's and he hits at his average of 40%, 60% of teh time the Knicks walk away with a bagel for the possession. That is poor.

OldFan wrote:

That's your quote. Step in closer doesn't read like post or drive to me.

if I wasn't clear sorry but step in closer didn't imply take a 22 ft jumper instead of a 23 ft 3 pt jumper

OldFan wrote:

There is no extra penalty for missed shots. If I make 4 of 10 3pt shots I score 12 pts and have 6 opportunities for offense if rebounds. If instead I make 5 of 10 2 pt I get 10 pts and have a chance for only 5 offensive rebounds. The other team always gets the ball after made shots - you're not losing any possesions. Teams don't shoot 60% on two pt shots even when dunks and layups are included.

disagree. every miss has a "penalty". the opposing team has a chance to:

inch closer or tie if they are trailing
take the lead if two teams are tied
increase a lead if they are winning
they miss too and the variables stay the same

only 1 of these 4 outcomes are favorable

the % of shots that are offensively rebounded vs the % that are rebounded defensively is heavily skewed towards the latter. It is very safe to assume that most possessions that end with a miss result in the other team getting the ball. you miss 6 shots thats a chance for a max 18 point swing (4 pt plays are way too rare too consider) in the score for the other team. You add in your 4 made threes and thats still leaves somebody with the chance to be +6 for those 10 possesions just off the misses alone.

OldFan wrote:
The Knicks should take less three point shots. Gallo should expand his game but when he's shooting 40% from the 3 pt line he's not hurting their offense.

I think that you under value the benefits of three point shooting by high percentage shooters.

gallo's 40% isn't hurting the offense. 63% of his shots being a 3 is.

The threat of having a guy who can hit 3's at an excellent % is far more valuable than actually having that guy or guys stand out there and jack 3's all night.