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David Lee vs Amare Stoudemire: Who's better
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technomaster
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Looking at their relative performance for the past two seasons, who's the better player - Lee or Stoudemire? Lee seems to be the better all-around player to me - certainly he's a better passer. His jump shooting has evolved to a whole nother level this year (I almost expect them to be announcing Ewing's name). In spite of taking a ton of jumpers, his FG% remains 55%+. I'd argue that David Lee runs the floor just as well as Stoudemire.

Amare's game may have plateaued. He's never averaged double figure rebounds over the course of a season (though admittedly he's come quite close).

I don't think either player plays particularly note-worthy defense.

David Lee - Mr. Consistent
Amare Stoudemire
Too close to call
Don't care, don't want either
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AnubisADL
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12/23/2009  12:50 PM
fishmike wrote:
djsunyc wrote:not for nothing, but if amare asks for the max, what will prevent lee from asking $12-13 mil a year?
I would offer him 6 years and $70mm the first minute you can. Thats a starting $9mm a salary. 6 years $75mm starts at $9.5mm and if you give him $10mm a year to start its 6 years and $78mm. He can opt out after 3 years for a bigger extension if he's a star. Hard to see that not getting done.

David Lee will be our cap killer for the next 6 years. No thanks. Hill and Gallo are the future up front. I don't waste valuable cap space on a bench player.

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orangeblobman
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12/23/2009  1:59 PM
AnubisADL wrote:
fishmike wrote:
djsunyc wrote:not for nothing, but if amare asks for the max, what will prevent lee from asking $12-13 mil a year?
I would offer him 6 years and $70mm the first minute you can. Thats a starting $9mm a salary. 6 years $75mm starts at $9.5mm and if you give him $10mm a year to start its 6 years and $78mm. He can opt out after 3 years for a bigger extension if he's a star. Hard to see that not getting done.

David Lee will be our cap killer for the next 6 years. No thanks. Hill and Gallo are the future up front. I don't waste valuable cap space on a bench player.

You're not sane. Have you been watching Lee at all the last 2 years? Bench player? Yea, if Jordan is a bench player.

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TMS
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12/23/2009  2:11 PM
djsunyc wrote:not for nothing, but if amare asks for the max, what will prevent lee from asking $12-13 mil a year?

nothing... & that's what his agent will be looking to get, u can bet on it... who knows if he'll be able to get it but people who think he'll immediately sign w/the Knicks for some huge home discount are kidding themselves... the Knicks chose to give Lee & Nate 1 year deals & they knew well this was gonna happen this offseason, but they wanted to keep their options open in free agency... D Lee & his agent owe the Knicks absolutely nothing... they're gonna try & get the best deal they can get, the Knicks had their chance to lock them up for less last year but they passed on it, so now Lee has his options open & can look at various teams to see if he can catch on with a better contract.

D Lee holds all the cards here... at this point he won't sign off on any trade to a team that doesn't have the cap space to sign him to an extension, & even then it's more than likely a team like that is a crappy team to begin with... he mine as well just finish out the year in NY where he's already putting up good numbers & enjoys playing & then weigh his options in free agency... plus he's a BYC so we can only take back a player worth half as much, which means we can only really trade him to teams that are under the cap this year... it's gonna be tough to work an equitable trade involving Lee at this point... the time to trade him was last year along w/Nate... told u guys all this before the deadline last year but y'all was like "don't worry, Donnie's got a plan... we can still trade him next year cuz he'll be a valuable expiring contract alot of teams will want. we gotta try to make the playoffs this year."

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fishmike
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12/23/2009  2:23 PM
how does Lee hold all the cards? There are a handful of teams with cap space, and most of those have big FAs of their own they want to sign.

Lee likes living and playing here.

Hey King, is he still serious with that chica? If the dude's woman lives and works here thats a factor.

Management likes him.

There is ZERO foundation for an arguement that Lee wants to leave here aside from the fact that it could happen.

Lee is going to make more money playing in NY than anywhere else. Any agent that tells him otherwise hasnt payed attention over the last 25 years

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jusnice
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12/23/2009  2:31 PM
true story....I was drunk and rambling through the streets of manhattan one night last summer when I bump into a guy's chest with my head. I'm just under 6'2, so I knew this guy had to be big and I was a little worried that I may have bumped into the wrong guy. I stumble back and it is David Lee with 3 very hot chics. The only thing I can think to say is, "Bring it home David." He sticks out his hand to shake mine and says, "I'd like to finish my career in New York and bring you guys a championship." He walks away with two of the chicks in tow and the other following slightly behind. For what it's worth, he wants to be here. We will have to pay what other double / double guys are making.
fishmike
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12/23/2009  2:36 PM
jusnice wrote:true story....I was drunk and rambling through the streets of manhattan one night last summer when I bump into a guy's chest with my head. I'm just under 6'2, so I knew this guy had to be big and I was a little worried that I may have bumped into the wrong guy. I stumble back and it is David Lee with 3 very hot chics. The only thing I can think to say is, "Bring it home David." He sticks out his hand to shake mine and says, "I'd like to finish my career in New York and bring you guys a championship." He walks away with two of the chicks in tow and the other following slightly behind. For what it's worth, he wants to be here. We will have to pay what other double / double guys are making.

which is fine. He's home grown talent. This isnt some me first entitled "I'm so talented" schmuck. This is a late first rounder who's worked himself into a hell of a solid frontcourt player. Pay him like one and lets get on with it.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
AnubisADL
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12/23/2009  2:52 PM
orangeblobman wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:
fishmike wrote:
djsunyc wrote:not for nothing, but if amare asks for the max, what will prevent lee from asking $12-13 mil a year?
I would offer him 6 years and $70mm the first minute you can. Thats a starting $9mm a salary. 6 years $75mm starts at $9.5mm and if you give him $10mm a year to start its 6 years and $78mm. He can opt out after 3 years for a bigger extension if he's a star. Hard to see that not getting done.

David Lee will be our cap killer for the next 6 years. No thanks. Hill and Gallo are the future up front. I don't waste valuable cap space on a bench player.

You're not sane. Have you been watching Lee at all the last 2 years? Bench player? Yea, if Jordan is a bench player.

David Lee could not produce when playing next to Zach Randolph. Who plays in the paint besides David Lee? Who rebounds besides David Lee? David Lee has zero front court competition. Im not saying he is garbage but he isnt as good as the stats would lead you too believe

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martin
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12/23/2009  3:00 PM
AnubisADL wrote:
orangeblobman wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:
fishmike wrote:
djsunyc wrote:not for nothing, but if amare asks for the max, what will prevent lee from asking $12-13 mil a year?
I would offer him 6 years and $70mm the first minute you can. Thats a starting $9mm a salary. 6 years $75mm starts at $9.5mm and if you give him $10mm a year to start its 6 years and $78mm. He can opt out after 3 years for a bigger extension if he's a star. Hard to see that not getting done.

David Lee will be our cap killer for the next 6 years. No thanks. Hill and Gallo are the future up front. I don't waste valuable cap space on a bench player.

You're not sane. Have you been watching Lee at all the last 2 years? Bench player? Yea, if Jordan is a bench player.

David Lee could not produce when playing next to Zach Randolph. Who plays in the paint besides David Lee? Who rebounds besides David Lee? David Lee has zero front court competition. Im not saying he is garbage but he isnt as good as the stats would lead you too believe

Knicks have a semi-backup PG who can't break down his own man, can barely finish at the rim, and has been about a 40% shooter from the field for his career. They have chuckers in Harrington and Hughes. They have a non-factor on offense in JJ (so other bigs should be able to double). And yet David still gets his stats.

If I remember correct, Lee DID produce next to Zbo, without having a play run for him.

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fishmike
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12/23/2009  3:01 PM
AnubisADL wrote:
orangeblobman wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:
fishmike wrote:
djsunyc wrote:not for nothing, but if amare asks for the max, what will prevent lee from asking $12-13 mil a year?
I would offer him 6 years and $70mm the first minute you can. Thats a starting $9mm a salary. 6 years $75mm starts at $9.5mm and if you give him $10mm a year to start its 6 years and $78mm. He can opt out after 3 years for a bigger extension if he's a star. Hard to see that not getting done.

David Lee will be our cap killer for the next 6 years. No thanks. Hill and Gallo are the future up front. I don't waste valuable cap space on a bench player.

You're not sane. Have you been watching Lee at all the last 2 years? Bench player? Yea, if Jordan is a bench player.

David Lee could not produce when playing next to Zach Randolph. Who plays in the paint besides David Lee? Who rebounds besides David Lee? David Lee has zero front court competition. Im not saying he is garbage but he isnt as good as the stats would lead you too believe

???? They played 11 games together last year. Lee averaged 14/9 55% starting next to Zach. His scoring went up when Zach left because there were more shots. Year before 10/9 and 55%.

He scores more now mostly because he's a BETTER player than before. Is this really a point to debate?

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TMS
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12/23/2009  3:12 PM
fishmike wrote:how does Lee hold all the cards? There are a handful of teams with cap space, and most of those have big FAs of their own they want to sign.

Lee likes living and playing here.

Hey King, is he still serious with that chica? If the dude's woman lives and works here thats a factor.

Management likes him.

There is ZERO foundation for an arguement that Lee wants to leave here aside from the fact that it could happen.

Lee is going to make more money playing in NY than anywhere else. Any agent that tells him otherwise hasnt payed attention over the last 25 years

who said Lee wants to leave here? i said Lee will want what his fair money value is... why wouldn't he? the Knicks had their chance to lock him up for less last year & passed, why the hell should he grant the Knicks any hometown discounts at this point? i wouldn't... i'd go & test the market & see what i can get & then weigh my options... as for Lee making more money here than anywhere else, i don't exactly see him starring in too many Air Jordan or other national ad campaigns right now... if the Heat miss out on Bosh u don't think they can offer Lee a big contract & offer him a shot to play with Wade & live down on South Beach & not have to pay any state income tax? the Hawks can use a guy like Lee on their team & they won't likely be a landing spot for any of the bignames out there, Lee would be a perfect target for them & he can go play with Jamal again for a year... the Raps are likely gonna lose Bosh, u don't think Lee would be a nice replacement for him on their roster as an alternative option? the Pistons will have plenty of cap space too, their fans would definitely love a guy like D Lee... there are other teams too... Lee's got plenty of options open to him... to assume he'll just bend over & take one up the ass with the first contract we offer him is foolishness.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
AnubisADL
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12/23/2009  3:15 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/23/2009  3:30 PM
I don't remember his exact stats but I remember people making excuses for him because he was reportedly suffering from bone spurs. Oddly enough Zach Randolph gets traded and no more phantom ailments.
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martin
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12/23/2009  3:28 PM
AnubisADL wrote:
martin wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:
orangeblobman wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:
fishmike wrote:
djsunyc wrote:not for nothing, but if amare asks for the max, what will prevent lee from asking $12-13 mil a year?
I would offer him 6 years and $70mm the first minute you can. Thats a starting $9mm a salary. 6 years $75mm starts at $9.5mm and if you give him $10mm a year to start its 6 years and $78mm. He can opt out after 3 years for a bigger extension if he's a star. Hard to see that not getting done.

David Lee will be our cap killer for the next 6 years. No thanks. Hill and Gallo are the future up front. I don't waste valuable cap space on a bench player.

You're not sane. Have you been watching Lee at all the last 2 years? Bench player? Yea, if Jordan is a bench player.

David Lee could not produce when playing next to Zach Randolph. Who plays in the paint besides David Lee? Who rebounds besides David Lee? David Lee has zero front court competition. Im not saying he is garbage but he isnt as good as the stats would lead you too believe

Knicks have a semi-backup PG who can't break down his own man, can barely finish at the rim, and has been about a 40% shooter from the field for his career. They have chuckers in Harrington and Hughes. They have a non-factor on offense in JJ (so other bigs should be able to double). And yet David still gets his stats.

If I remember correct, Lee DID produce next to Zbo, without having a play run for him.

I don't remember his exact stats but I remember people making excuses for him because he was reportedly suffering from bone spurs. Oddly enough Zach Randolph gets traded and no more phantom ailments.

you don't remember his stats? That's an arguement?

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AnubisADL
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12/23/2009  3:30 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/23/2009  3:41 PM
David Lee has a bone spur in his ankle
By J.E. Skeets

I only know this because I have him on my fantasy team, but Knicks forward David Lee has been struggling as of late. After starting the season hot — trade high, Skeets, trade high! — Lee is averaging just 8 points and 3.7 rebounds over his last four games. Today, Marc Berman has a possible explanation for the drop: "David Lee did not practice yesterday and told The Post he has been suffering from a bone spur in his ankle for three weeks. Lee said he will play through the pain and the spur is too small to require surgery." Great. A pinched nerve. That'll help him win back his starting PF spot from Wilson Chandler. Anyone want to trade?

Source: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/David-Lee-has-a-bone-spur-in-his-ankle?urn=nba,121314

I found a reference dated Nov 11th.

Thanks for the links Martin.

David Lee: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leeda02/gamelog/2009/

Zach Randolph: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/randoza01/gamelog/2009/

David Lee's points and rebounds jumped once Zach was traded. Also it should be noted that Zach was averaging 20 and 12 while David Lee was averaging 11 and 7 before the trade.

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TMS
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12/23/2009  3:59 PM
there's no way Lee is getting all the touches on offense he is now if Zach is still here... Lee was getting his offense on putbacks pretty much playing the shallow water role while Zach was here... he was still grabbing his share of boards tho.
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fishmike
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12/23/2009  4:12 PM
TMS wrote:
fishmike wrote:how does Lee hold all the cards? There are a handful of teams with cap space, and most of those have big FAs of their own they want to sign.

Lee likes living and playing here.

Hey King, is he still serious with that chica? If the dude's woman lives and works here thats a factor.

Management likes him.

There is ZERO foundation for an arguement that Lee wants to leave here aside from the fact that it could happen.

Lee is going to make more money playing in NY than anywhere else. Any agent that tells him otherwise hasnt payed attention over the last 25 years

who said Lee wants to leave here? i said Lee will want what his fair money value is... why wouldn't he? the Knicks had their chance to lock him up for less last year & passed, why the hell should he grant the Knicks any hometown discounts at this point? i wouldn't... i'd go & test the market & see what i can get & then weigh my options... as for Lee making more money here than anywhere else, i don't exactly see him starring in too many Air Jordan or other national ad campaigns right now... if the Heat miss out on Bosh u don't think they can offer Lee a big contract & offer him a shot to play with Wade & live down on South Beach & not have to pay any state income tax? the Hawks can use a guy like Lee on their team & they won't likely be a landing spot for any of the bignames out there, Lee would be a perfect target for them & he can go play with Jamal again for a year... the Raps are likely gonna lose Bosh, u don't think Lee would be a nice replacement for him on their roster as an alternative option? the Pistons will have plenty of cap space too, their fans would definitely love a guy like D Lee... there are other teams too... Lee's got plenty of options open to him... to assume he'll just bend over & take one up the ass with the first contract we offer him is foolishness.


dude what are you talking about? I have suggested Knick try to lock Lee up early with a 6 year deal worth $70-$80mm and your talking about "expecting Lee to bend over and take it in the ass"

Maybe too many bukkakke videos?

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TMS
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12/23/2009  5:00 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/23/2009  5:00 PM
my bukkake intake has nothing to do with this... that's a topic for another thread

but my point in this discussion was in agreement to dj's comment that D Lee & his agent will be asking for $12-13 mil per when guys like Amare will be looking to get the max... read up a little on this page to see what i'm talking about... you argued that u'd offer Lee 6 years at $70-80 million... that comes out to $12-13 mil per... if you're willing to give him that amount of change to keep him here, that's your choice... i don't agree that he's worth that type of longterm investment & i don't think Lee will accept a significantly lower contract to remain a Knick either.

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orangeblobman
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12/23/2009  6:44 PM
TMS wrote:my bukkake intake has nothing to do with this... that's a topic for another thread

but my point in this discussion was in agreement to dj's comment that D Lee & his agent will be asking for $12-13 mil per when guys like Amare will be looking to get the max... read up a little on this page to see what i'm talking about... you argued that u'd offer Lee 6 years at $70-80 million... that comes out to $12-13 mil per... if you're willing to give him that amount of change to keep him here, that's your choice... i don't agree that he's worth that type of longterm investment & i don't think Lee will accept a significantly lower contract to remain a Knick either.

your bukkake intake, bro?

WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
loweyecue
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12/23/2009  11:27 PM
Amare has one dimension that Lee wil never have. Power offense. He can go up against big bodies and slam it down. Lee is more of s finesse player. But amare can play finesse as well, so I would say advatage Amare on this one.
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oohah
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12/23/2009  11:30 PM
DurzoBlint wrote:also don't understand why/how people say his stats are inflated by player for D'Anphoney.

Because every player who plays in D'Antoni's system has inflated stats, including Nash and Stoudemire.

And Stoudemire is better than Lee...are we really having this discussion? Guys...stop bogarting the spliff! 2 tokes and pass....


oohah

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12/23/2009  11:34 PM
oohah wrote:
DurzoBlint wrote:also don't understand why/how people say his stats are inflated by player for D'Anphoney.

Because every player who plays in D'Antoni's system has inflated stats, including Nash and Stoudemire.

And Stoudemire is better than Lee...are we really having this discussion? Guys...stop bogarting the spliff! 2 tokes and pass....


oohah

I don't want to say who is better D Lee or Stoudemire--I just want them to play together with Lebron:)

RIP Crushalot😞
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