TMS wrote:

OldFan wrote:Anyone could have signed Nate without giving up anything this summer. If it hurt Nate's trade value it went from very little to none. Hardly a major mistake and the Knicks have played better since he's been benched.

sorry OldFan but i just don't see how u can reason that letting a 1st round pick w/Nate's talent & ability walk for nothing is anything but a mistake... it's not like Nate was a bust, everyone knows he's a dynamic scorer with hyperactive tendencies... he's not a malcontent cancer like Marbury was.

this could have easily been avoided by trading him last year for some kind of asset... things didn't need to get to this level, but MDA decided to make a spectacle of the situation & now Nate's value is completely gone in all likelihood... all this was completely unnecessary.

Nate's 'talent and ability' are grossly overrated. I think sometimes his amazing dunking ability for his height and his 'fun' personality get in the way of objectively assessing his worth on the court. This is a guy that had his start in Isiah's Knicks, a team that still hasn't won more than, what, 33 games? It's a high-flying act on one of the worst teams of the decade. When he is finally on another team, maybe a winning team, we will be better able to gauge his value.

We don't know for sure if there was an opportunity to trade him last year, do we? We DO know that NO OTHER TEAM wanted to sign him this off-season. For all his supposed skill and talent, this is strange to me.

And finally, MDA making a 'spectacle' of it? How so?? The spectacle IS NATE HIMSELF!! All MDA did was try to focus him countless times and finally, realizing that he was beating his head against a concrete wall, he did what any rational person would do-- bench him and move on. Can't say that the team hasn't been better off since. Is all.

TMS wrote:

OldFan wrote:Anyone could have signed Nate without giving up anything this summer. If it hurt Nate's trade value it went from very little to none. Hardly a major mistake and the Knicks have played better since he's been benched.

sorry OldFan but i just don't see how u can reason that letting a 1st round pick w/Nate's talent & ability walk for nothing is anything but a mistake... it's not like Nate was a bust, everyone knows he's a dynamic scorer with hyperactive tendencies... he's not a malcontent cancer like Marbury was.

this could have easily been avoided by trading him last year for some kind of asset... things didn't need to get to this level, but MDA decided to make a spectacle of the situation & now Nate's value is completely gone in all likelihood... all this was completely unnecessary.

Which teams were willing to trade for Nate?

Personally, I think the Knicks came out ahead. They got a year of service for a guy that didn't factor in long term. It's on Nate that he didn't want to play for his next contract. Lee is proving he deserves a contract either here or elsewhere.

I'm unsure Nate would've fetched a pick or a prospect

loweyecue wrote:

TMS wrote:

OldFan wrote:Anyone could have signed Nate without giving up anything this summer. If it hurt Nate's trade value it went from very little to none. Hardly a major mistake and the Knicks have played better since he's been benched.

sorry OldFan but i just don't see how u can reason that letting a 1st round pick w/Nate's talent & ability walk for nothing is anything but a mistake... it's not like Nate was a bust, everyone knows he's a dynamic scorer with hyperactive tendencies... he's not a malcontent cancer like Marbury was.

this could have easily been avoided by trading him last year for some kind of asset... things didn't need to get to this level, but MDA decided to make a spectacle of the situation & now Nate's value is completely gone in all likelihood... all this was completely unnecessary.

TMS, I love your posts I really do, but this one is fairly paranoid. We have a player no one wants but you keep insisting we should get "value" back for him. Both Holfresh and you talk about his trade value but refuse to see that NO ONE WANTED HIM EVEN BEFORE THE BENCHING. I think that's at least slightly unfair to Walsh and MDA.

last year when he was putting up 30 pt games i heard people rail on & on about Nate being a keeper... now all of a sudden he's a player w/zero value even before the benching? that's just a little bit hypocritical if u ask me... none of us knows what goes on behind the scenes... there were rumors about the Kings being interested in a Fishlips & Nate package for Kenny Thomas last year that would have enabled us to unload Fishlips' contract... that would have been a huge benefit for this organization... i find it hard to fathom how a player w/such little value could have a team interested enough to take that albatross off our hands... i have a fair idea that if the Kings were interested then there had to have been other teams interested as well... just cuz they didn't offer him a contract doesn't mean they wouldn't have given us back at least a 2nd round or late 1st round pick & expiring for him before the deadline last season... i defy anyone to go back & tell me they thought Nate was worthless when he was playing great for us last season... the time to trade him was when his value was at its alltime high like i told u guys, but y'all told me i was nuts to wanna trade him for lesser assets like a late round pick... now we're gonna watch him walk for nothing cuz MDA & Walsh mishandled this situation & ya'll are gonna make up more excuses to try & explain to me how my idea to trade him last year was still the wrong way to go... ok.

Uptown wrote:Holfreash.....You say the Knicks is the worse run organization in sports. No question this organization has been at the bottom, especially when Isiah took over and you add the sex scandal, LB and Marbury fiasco to the mix. But I'm curious, just going on what happening this year, 09-10, in your opinion, right now, why is this still the worse run BB organization in sports?

This organization was poorly runned long b4 Isiah got here...But there are a few reason why I think this organization is still poorly runned...We are still doing the same things where players are banished without explanation...We saw it with LB and seeing it today with MDA...GM and Coach are still not on the same page with regards to these matters...An example is the handling of the Marbury situation last year...Same thing is happening this year with Nate...Nate's situation could be handled a lot better...It seems like MDA is making emotional decisions and not making decisions with the team/organization in mind for the long run...About a week ago, there was an article out saying Walsh was upset that his underlings didn't pick Jennings in last years draft??..I'm not sure how true this is...But if it is true, its alarming...

I think MDA is trying to win now for his own self interest, much like last year...Player development means nothing to him outside of Gallo...He needs to win now because he knows at some point this season, continued losing isn't going to be acceptable...I think developing the young pieces and improving play as a team is more important than wins..that was about the only thing that I understood from LB's point of view..Didnt like it at the time, but understood...I also think MDA was the wrong hire for this rebuilding team...I thought as the time of his hire that his style of play would not be helpful to a young team..I still fell that way..I think it's damaging to guys like Chanadler and Gallo who continues to jack up threes to no end when it seems they can post up as well...I've got more bro that I can dedicate pages to...But its only my opinion..I think Isiah should of had Walshs' manadate to rebuild and not take on silly contracts to win now...Isiah would have done a better job finding talent in the draft, my opinion...We would be fully rebuilding with our picks and guys like Reezy and Frye who may still be here...Reezy had 31 pts, 8 boards and 6 assist the other night by the way....Believe me, Nate will be lighting it up elsewhere as well...

I am reading similiar post about Nate now that I was reading about Ariza when he was traded...Not as harsh but similiar, like the guy has no game...Amazing...But I guess we all have to wait and see...

SupremeCommander wrote:

TMS wrote:

OldFan wrote:Anyone could have signed Nate without giving up anything this summer. If it hurt Nate's trade value it went from very little to none. Hardly a major mistake and the Knicks have played better since he's been benched.

sorry OldFan but i just don't see how u can reason that letting a 1st round pick w/Nate's talent & ability walk for nothing is anything but a mistake... it's not like Nate was a bust, everyone knows he's a dynamic scorer with hyperactive tendencies... he's not a malcontent cancer like Marbury was.

this could have easily been avoided by trading him last year for some kind of asset... things didn't need to get to this level, but MDA decided to make a spectacle of the situation & now Nate's value is completely gone in all likelihood... all this was completely unnecessary.

Which teams were willing to trade for Nate?

Personally, I think the Knicks came out ahead. They got a year of service for a guy that didn't factor in long term. It's on Nate that he didn't want to play for his next contract. Lee is proving he deserves a contract either here or elsewhere.

I'm unsure Nate would've fetched a pick or a prospect

Papabear Says

Yep and Lee can't wait to get out of dodge.

holfresh wrote:

Uptown wrote:Holfreash.....You say the Knicks is the worse run organization in sports. No question this organization has been at the bottom, especially when Isiah took over and you add the sex scandal, LB and Marbury fiasco to the mix. But I'm curious, just going on what happening this year, 09-10, in your opinion, right now, why is this still the worse run BB organization in sports?

This organization was poorly runned long b4 Isiah got here...But there are a few reason why I think this organization is still poorly runned...We are still doing the same things where players are banished without explanation...We saw it with LB and seeing it today with MDA...GM and Coach are still not on the same page with regards to these matters...An example is the handling of the Marbury situation last year...Same thing is happening this year with Nate...Nate's situation could be handled a lot better...It seems like MDA is making emotional decisions and not making decisions with the team/organization in mind for the long run...About a week ago, there was an article out saying Walsh was upset that his underlings didn't pick Jennings in last years draft??..I'm not sure how true this is...But if it is true, its alarming...

I think MDA is trying to win now for his own self interest, much like last year...Player development means nothing to him outside of Gallo...He needs to win now because he knows at some point this season, continued losing isn't going to be acceptable...I think developing the young pieces and improving play as a team is more important than wins..that was about the only thing that I understood from LB's point of view..Didnt like it at the time, but understood...I also think MDA was the wrong hire for this rebuilding team...I thought as the time of his hire that his style of play would not be helpful to a young team..I still fell that way..I think it's damaging to guys like Chanadler and Gallo who continues to jack up threes to no end when it seems they can post up as well...I've got more bro that I can dedicate pages to...But its only my opinion..I think Isiah should of had Walshs' manadate to rebuild and not take on silly contracts to win now...Isiah would have done a better job finding talent in the draft, my opinion...We would be fully rebuilding with our picks and guys like Reezy and Frye who may still be here...Reezy had 31 pts, 8 boards and 6 assist the other night by the way....Believe me, Nate will be lighting it up elsewhere as well...

I am reading similiar post about Nate now that I was reading about Ariza when he was traded...Not as harsh but similiar, like the guy has no game...Amazing...But I guess we all have to wait and see...

So the fact the Nate Robinson, a reserve who hasn't received any playing time over the last eight and the fact that we didn't pick Brandon Jennings, (9 other teams also missed oout on him) merits the worst run organization tag? I dont think so. Come on Holfresh, you gotta give me more than that. As Nixluva stated, this team is in transition. Everyone expected a major step back this year and anyone who seriously tought we wouldn't is kidding themselves. Coaches are a different animal. Coaches coach to win. They are not in the business to develop Rooks while they are in the middle of a playoff run.

Your backing of Isiah is foolish, especially when you consider ISIAH is the one that traded both Reezy and Frye. Isiah reign dragged us through the tabloids and such. No way you can defend him and he did nothing to merit another year.

TMS wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

TMS wrote:

OldFan wrote:Anyone could have signed Nate without giving up anything this summer. If it hurt Nate's trade value it went from very little to none. Hardly a major mistake and the Knicks have played better since he's been benched.

sorry OldFan but i just don't see how u can reason that letting a 1st round pick w/Nate's talent & ability walk for nothing is anything but a mistake... it's not like Nate was a bust, everyone knows he's a dynamic scorer with hyperactive tendencies... he's not a malcontent cancer like Marbury was.

this could have easily been avoided by trading him last year for some kind of asset... things didn't need to get to this level, but MDA decided to make a spectacle of the situation & now Nate's value is completely gone in all likelihood... all this was completely unnecessary.

TMS, I love your posts I really do, but this one is fairly paranoid. We have a player no one wants but you keep insisting we should get "value" back for him. Both Holfresh and you talk about his trade value but refuse to see that NO ONE WANTED HIM EVEN BEFORE THE BENCHING. I think that's at least slightly unfair to Walsh and MDA.

last year when he was putting up 30 pt games i heard people rail on & on about Nate being a keeper... now all of a sudden he's a player w/zero value even before the benching? that's just a little bit hypocritical if u ask me... none of us knows what goes on behind the scenes... there were rumors about the Kings being interested in a Fishlips & Nate package for Kenny Thomas last year that would have enabled us to unload Fishlips' contract... that would have been a huge benefit for this organization... i find it hard to fathom how a player w/such little value could have a team interested enough to take that albatross off our hands... i have a fair idea that if the Kings were interested then there had to have been other teams interested as well... just cuz they didn't offer him a contract doesn't mean they wouldn't have given us back at least a 2nd round or late 1st round pick & expiring for him before the deadline last season... i defy anyone to go back & tell me they thought Nate was worthless when he was playing great for us last season... the time to trade him was when his value was at its alltime high like i told u guys, but y'all told me i was nuts to wanna trade him for lesser assets like a late round pick... now we're gonna watch him walk for nothing cuz MDA & Walsh mishandled this situation & ya'll are gonna make up more excuses to try & explain to me how my idea to trade him last year was still the wrong way to go... ok.

Fair points, I will have to excuse myself from the group that wanted to keep Nate, I never did like him much, same with Lee. I may have given him props on occasion but he never struck me as the type I would want long term. But yes, there were plenty of people saying he was a keeper. So yes, there was one unsubstantiated rumor for trade involving him and fishlips but I wouldn't hang my case on that. We could have gotten a late first or a second round pick for him you say? I agree, and I think we still can if he is packaged in the right deal.

The Knicks yoots are doing just fine with The Mayor rounding into campaign form, Gallo driving and thriving and David Lee playing as if his next contract depends on it. The volatile Mike D'Antoni has removed Al Harrington as a starter role and reduced his minutes.

Meanwhile, back at (cough) "Nate-Gate"

"...the Knicks can accept no more than $2,625,223 in exchange for Robinson. The team at the other end of the transaction would use Robinson’s full $4 million salary, rather than his BYC amount. Working the math the other way, this means that another team would have to trade away at least $3.12 million in order to acquire Robinson.

See the problem here?

The other team would need to trade away more salary than the Knicks could accept. Robinson could not, for example, be traded straight-up for another $4 million player.

There are ways to work around BYC. If another team has a trade exception for at least $4 million, it can use it to acquire Robinson without adhering to the salary matching requirement. It could also find a third team willing to take on some additional salary in order to help balance the books. Or it can add more players to both sides of the trade, until the numbers are sufficiently large that they overcome the effects of BYC. But any of these alternatives would make a trade more complicated, and therefore make it much harder for Walsh to get a deal done"

- Larry Coon, NYT