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Douglas - PG, SG or Combo Guard?
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newyorknewyork
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11/12/2009  1:55 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2009  1:56 PM
He is Chauncey Billups reincarnated. Hopefully we keep him when he becomes complete rather then allow him to be traded to 4 teams and then put it together.

Damn but Chris Duhon is his mentor. Then there is Larry Hughes and Nate Robinson. We need to get a veteran Terrell Brandon type of guy in here to show him the way.

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EnySpree
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11/12/2009  1:56 PM
Olbrannon wrote:
Ira wrote:
JamaicanJetFan wrote:Douglas right now = the best Nate could ever be.

Neither can pass very well (although maybe TD develops this)
Both can shoot lights out
Both can get to the rim lightening quick (but TD is less likely to get blocked when doing so)

BUT

TD plays infinitely better defense. His defense is just SOLID.

Douglas is very fast, but he's not a good leaper and has short arms. He's 5 or 6 inches taller than Nate, but Nate's the better finisher.

Short arms??? LOL

Toney Douglas doesn't have short arms at all...his arms are fairly long actually and he uses that length well on defense.

Stop getting jacked up about weather or not the dude can dunk. Dunking means nothing in the game of basketball. Clyde Frazier didn't dunk...Steve Nash doesn't dunk. CP3 doesn't dunk. It's not their jobs to jump over guys and dunk....as a point guard their job is to initiate the offense and score when the team teams them to. Toney Douglas so far has done that.

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JohnWallace44
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11/12/2009  4:39 PM
I'll take the bait here...

His arms are long compared to who? He has a 6'6" wingspan. He's not Rose/Harris/Rondo/Westbrook/Evans. That's a chunk of the league right there.

Dunking as has been said previously is not it. That's why we term it "finishing" because you can finish in lots of ways. Flynn can finish, but he's not dunking unless its a wide open fast break.

When you're inside the restricted area with a defender, a finisher scores be it from the line or getting the basket or both. If you avoid contact and throw up prayers from inside the restricted area, then that's not a finisher.

Knicks fans should be familiar with this because we've seen guys do it to us and win games by finishing better than our guys for years, from big stars like Kobe, LeBron and Wade, and from minor guys like Gordon, TJ Ford and Sessions.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
martin
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11/12/2009  4:51 PM
JohnWallace44 wrote:I'll take the bait here...

His arms are long compared to who? He has a 6'6" wingspan. He's not Rose/Harris/Rondo/Westbrook/Evans. That's a chunk of the league right there.

Dunking as has been said previously is not it. That's why we term it "finishing" because you can finish in lots of ways. Flynn can finish, but he's not dunking unless its a wide open fast break.

When you're inside the restricted area with a defender, a finisher scores be it from the line or getting the basket or both. If you avoid contact and throw up prayers from inside the restricted area, then that's not a finisher.

Knicks fans should be familiar with this because we've seen guys do it to us and win games by finishing better than our guys for years, from big stars like Kobe, LeBron and Wade, and from minor guys like Gordon, TJ Ford and Sessions.

why have you pined so much for Bayless and/or Eric Gordon? Those midgets.

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JohnWallace44
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11/12/2009  5:00 PM
Martin, unfortunately I can't claim to be someone who thought Gordon would be a good pick. I posted that Randolph/Bayless were the right picks before the 08 draft on the same merits that I'm arguing today. Gordon's not big enough and he was a chucker in college, and a combo guard.

Bayless is 6'3", not much of a wingspan, but he was damn fast, and at the time with Balkman/Nate/Chandler/Lee as the core players, I pictured a team that would just be able to outrun people.

I was hoping though, with most of us, that Lee would be packaged to get either Westbrook or OJ.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
oohah
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11/12/2009  6:03 PM
Douglas looks like a nice backup point who can score. I like him, I think he has gumption, and I stand by my prediction that he will be the Knicks' best rookie this year when all is said and done.

oohah

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Olbrannon
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11/12/2009  6:49 PM
Let's see if we can add something meaningful to this thread like some draft numbers

Toney's measurables sprint time, vertical leap, strength, body fat% ranked him Number 1 overall. He had the FASTEST sprint time in the draft.

In last years draft #1 North Carolina put 4 players in the first and second round. Toney Dougls put 32 points on that bunch with Lawson on the floor. Without Lawson FSU won the semifinal matchup with Toney putting up shots like you saw Lebron hitting with Hughes in his face the other night.

Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
misterearl
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11/12/2009  6:55 PM
Olbrannon - excellent point.

I dare anyone to name any one of the other four players on the Florida State Seminole basketball team from last season.

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oohah
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11/12/2009  6:59 PM
misterearl wrote:
I dare anyone to name any one of the other four players on the Florida State Seminole basketball team from last season.

Bob Sura, Sam Cassell, Charlie Ward, and that Edwards kid?

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Olbrannon
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11/12/2009  7:14 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2009  9:45 PM
oohah forgot Cowens, McCloud, Thornton was the only one that TD ever stepped foot on the floor with and that was his soph year.

Before the hoops season is over you will know a few Seminole names though; if they "do what Toney Douglas do"

(Gonna add here that Seth who writes the postingandtoasting blog loved the phrase and video from SL where Douglas responded in an interview as quoted...Seth said if he sells enough of these he will give TD a shirt There may be more to this legally than I am party to eg trademark?)

Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
orangeblobman
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Nauru
11/12/2009  7:29 PM
oohah wrote:
misterearl wrote:
I dare anyone to name any one of the other four players on the Florida State Seminole basketball team from last season.

Bob Sura, Sam Cassell, Charlie Ward, and that Edwards kid?

oohah

they all played college ball last year? that's weird, man.

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knicks1248
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11/12/2009  7:48 PM
when they posted his college high light reel, he was scoring at will but never pass the ball or set up his team mates, and he still doesnt, except for a couple of games in SL. He is going to have to learn that if he wants to become a really good player
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Olbrannon
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11/12/2009  9:49 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2009  9:52 PM
I just watched the Cosmic upload...I saw three times he would have got credit for an assist and nobody knocks down the shot. Auspiciosuly Lee missed a short jumper late. Jeffries was so shocked Toney gave him the ball on a 3-1 break he lost it out of bounds. Harrington did much the same in the third. He se t a real nice screen for Gallo late to keep it close ...and in the last box score I saw he didn't get credit for the steal he had on Horford that led to the break where JJ fumbled out of bounds.

He also didn't get credit Monday for a steal...when the guy fouled him on the side to keep him from throwing the long ball to Duhon on a breakaway after the steal.

Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
nixluva
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11/12/2009  10:53 PM
When you're 6-2 having 6-6 arms is considered long. Heck Jrue is 6-3.25 and his wingspan is 6-7. With a step TD and reach up 10-10". I think that's enough to be effective at the rim! His quickness is impressive and it's not just his legs but his hands as well. He would probably make a good boxer with those kinds of reflexes. I don't know if he sees the floor that great, but in this offense if he can get to the point where he's mastering the Pick n Roll and drive and kick to the perimeter guys, that should be enough. Just keep it simple like Duhon did beginning of last year.
Panos
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11/12/2009  11:25 PM
Shit, JW, I was just in a cab coming home, and noticed this hot chick walking down the sidewalk.
But then I noticed how short her arms were. Total turn off.
You've ruined all short-armed chicks for me forever after.
Olbrannon
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11/13/2009  8:21 AM
BTW anyone notice? Crawford DID NOT tear up the Garden floor as so many have come back to do? Actually didn't I hear something about him and Bibby crying to the refs 'bout Toney D'ing them up?
Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
cooch2584
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11/13/2009  8:39 AM
PANOS THAT WAS FING FUNNY
arkrud
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11/13/2009  12:12 PM
JohnWallace44 wrote:Wow... Nate's a bum now? Get back to me when Douglas wins a game for the Knicks.

Or when Nate lose some games for us... as usual... with some valuable Al help.
Seriously comparing to Nate any NBA and D-league guard will look like smartest man on the earth.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
s3231
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11/13/2009  12:25 PM
misterearl wrote:In the immortal words of Arnold "Red" Auerbach. "I don't look for small forwards, point guards or centers... I look for basketball players"

Toney Douglas is a basketball player, playa.


This is great. As soon as I saw the thread title I thought about this quote.

"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
s3231
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11/13/2009  12:28 PM
I mind as well say what I think about Douglas since I posted in the thread.

I like Toney's potential a lot. I think his shot selection needs some work, but I think that will come with time. I love that he is fearless right now and playing with confidence.

The thing I like the most about him is that he seems to be a great guy with an excellent work ethic. I don't think he is satisfied with being a role player in this league and I'm starting to think he can develop into a very good starter if everything works out. It is obviously too early to tell, but I really like the potential he is showing.

"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
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