Bippity10 wrote:Again, has every move reflected "Lebron or bust" or has every move reflected a plan to create cap space and your interpretation(along with the media) is that it is Lebron or bust. Now again, if every move was Lebron or Bust why would he draft two players in two straight drafts that were projects. Aren't you contradicting yourself?

No. Gallo's game was tailor made for D'Antoni's system and he got significant minutes his first year considering he was injured. He wasn't considered a project. Not in the same sense as Hill now, who was a three year guy with a defense and transition game I imagine Walsh thought would bring something to the table this year. In D'Antoni's own words, Hill "has a long way to go" but there is no reason to think they thought this was the case before they drafted him.

Bippity10 wrote:Lastly, we of course want to compete this year. But again, what does that have to do with the draft pick.

A better question might be why wouldn't it have something to do with the draft pick? Having skill, a high ceiling and being able to contribute right away are not contradictory ideas. More often, in fact, its the opposite.

Bippity10 wrote:So I ask the question again. After winning 23, 33 and 24 and 32 games why are fans upset with a GM clearing cap space IMMEDIATELY so that he can go into 2010 and 2011 free-agency fully loaded.Do some real self-examination and get back to me on this.

You'll have to ask someone else this question, or at least bother to read what I am writing to you. I never argued against this at all.

RemBee76 wrote:

martin wrote:Walsh was looking for guard play to immediately help out this year, and thus the selection of Douglas.

Who has played how many minutes so far, as Duhon gets run into the ground (again?)

martin wrote: Walsh has publically stated that Hill is a project type of guy

Well, sure. After the draft. I'd love to hear it if you have an example of where he said he expected that of the 3 year Arizona player. And actually, the scouting reports didn't say that Hill was a "back to the basket" kind of player at all, but a long forward with a decent jumper who could run the floor. The comparison I heard was Chris Bosh.

Walsh has been public about his plan on Draft day... of course he's not gonna show his hand before the draft, that compromises his bargaining position... no GM is dumb enough to show their hand by actually telling u who they plan on taking unless they own the #1 overall pick... Donnie said he had a couple players that he wanted to target in the draft, my guess is those players were Stephen Curry, Tyreke Evans & possibly Ricky Rubio according to the comments he's made since... i'm sure there were deals being discussed behind the scenes that none of us were aware of where he tried to arrange to get those guys, but it didn't happen for 1 reason or another... Donnie said because the Knicks weren't able to get the players they were targetting, they ended up taking the next BPA that was on their board, which was Jordan Hill... this i heard from him on a pre-game show interview that was aired a couple weeks ago... he said the Knicks knew that Jordan Hill would be a project but that they just went with the next guy on their draft board... the Knicks weren't really covetting Jordan Hill persay, he just sorta ended up here cuz there were no other standout options that the Knicks were interested in at that point... apparently they weren't too high on drafting Brandon Jennings for 1 reason or another... maybe they were concerned about his attitude & maturity? maybe they didn't like his style of play? who the hell knows? sure Jennings looks terrific so far this year but that doesn't mean Hill won't end up being a terrific player in his own right either... just need to be patient, u can't expect any rookie to come in & be an instant impact player right off the bat.

as for Jordan Hill, if u watched him play in college u would know he played in the post a lot last year for Arizona... yes, he has a decent midrange jumper & can run the floor too, but that's not the only 2 things he can do well... i've heard a lot more Amare comparisons than Bosh on the various websites... the kid is still working on his footwork & positioning, & sometimes he zones out on the court on defense, so those are weaknesses he needs to improve on... a lot of young NBA players especially bigmen face the same problems... this is why we need to get this kid into the mix & get him acclimated to the speed & pace of the NBA game... if u sit him on the bench all year u risk losing this kid if u ask me, he needs to see action... there's absolutely nothing we have to lose by letting this kid see minutes over a scrub like Fishlips, no one's gonna take him off our hands i don't care how much u try & pump up his trade value... but if dumping Fishlips is the priority right now, then i'm fine w/waiting til the trade deadline to get this kid into the rotation... if Hill doesn't replace Fishlips the second the trade deadline passes then there's something seriously wrong w/how MDA's running this team.

Bippity10 wrote:TMS-One concern about playing Hill early. Knick fans are out for blood already. If the kid comes out and plays badly the fans are going to rip him a new one. No telling what that does to his confidence. It could destroy him.

seeing how he's not gonna have a chance to develop w playing time, wouldnt it make sense to at least drop the guy to the nbdl this year so that he can learn a bit? thats what i would do. on a bad team mistakes only get magnified and i think youre right, he'd get eaten up by the crowd in 10 sec - all it would take is one brick in a game the knicks were down by 15....

TMS wrote:Donnie said because the Knicks weren't able to get the players they were targetting, they ended up taking the next BPA that was on their board, which was Jordan Hill... this i heard from him on a pre-game show interview that was aired a couple weeks ago... he said the Knicks knew that Jordan Hill would be a project but that they just went with the next guy on their draft board... the Knicks weren't really covetting Jordan Hill persay, he just sorta ended up here cuz there were no other standout options that the Knicks were interested in at that point.

If true, this doesn't help their case. If there are no stand-out options then why pick the non-stand-out option that will take three years to materialize rather than the non-stand-out option that can contribute to the team right away and isn't redundant in the front court.

TMS wrote:as for Jordan Hill, if u watched him play in college u would know he played in the post a lot last year for Arizona... yes, he has a decent midrange jumper & can run the floor too, but that's not the only 2 things he can do well.

He doesn't have a polished post game. Thats obvious. But what I was saying, actually, was that his ability to key breaks on defense, run the floor, and hit the occasional jumper on the pick-and-pop actually mean that far from being the "fish out of water" in D'Antoni's offense as Martin said, he might have been expected to fit in quite well.

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BTW, I've heard the New York crowd used as an excuse for not playing rookies before, and I always think that its BS, frankly. If a guy is ready to play he's ready, and you put him out there regardless of how you think the crowd might react. If he isn't ready, you don't play him. It all amounts to the same thing, and using the "Knick fans are out for blood" excuse is just weak.

RemBee76 wrote:

TMS wrote:Donnie said because the Knicks weren't able to get the players they were targetting, they ended up taking the next BPA that was on their board, which was Jordan Hill... this i heard from him on a pre-game show interview that was aired a couple weeks ago... he said the Knicks knew that Jordan Hill would be a project but that they just went with the next guy on their draft board... the Knicks weren't really covetting Jordan Hill persay, he just sorta ended up here cuz there were no other standout options that the Knicks were interested in at that point.

If true, this doesn't help their case. If there are no stand-out options then why pick the non-stand-out option that will take three years to materialize rather than the non-stand-out option that can contribute to the team right away and isn't redundant in the front court.

TMS wrote:as for Jordan Hill, if u watched him play in college u would know he played in the post a lot last year for Arizona... yes, he has a decent midrange jumper & can run the floor too, but that's not the only 2 things he can do well.

He doesn't have a polished post game. Thats obvious. But what I was saying, actually, was that his ability to key breaks on defense, run the floor, and hit the occasional jumper on the pick-and-pop actually mean that far from being the "fish out of water" in D'Antoni's offense as Martin said, he might have been expected to fit in quite well.

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BTW, I've heard the New York crowd used as an excuse for not playing rookies before, and I always think that its BS, frankly. If a guy is ready to play he's ready, and you put him out there regardless of how you think the crowd might react. If he isn't ready, you don't play him. It all amounts to the same thing, and using the "Knick fans are out for blood" excuse is just weak.

So you took a shot at me but agreed with me at the same time. Knick fans are out for blood. Hill is not ready. So you don't put Hill on the floor just to get him experience. Not being ready and struggling with confidence when you aren't performing is bad enough, add the NY fans on top of that and you could destroy him. IF you don't think this is reality then you don't know NY

JohnWallace44 wrote:"Raw" is a strange thing to call a guy who's older than all of the peers we compare him to. Hill is two years younger than Darko. Same age as Chandler.

That's just a nice cover-up for a miss in the draft.

Martin, all your points sound like they point to Hill being a bad pick. Walsh knew he'd be a fish out of water in the MikeD system? What, is he thinking Mike is just temporary? That's ridiculous.

It's just a miss, plain and simple, and the sad thing is that you'll never maximize what Hill is without a strong point guard to set him up just like Paul maximized Chandler. With Duhon and Douglas you'll never really know what you have because Hill will be invisible on the floor.

Derozan/Jennings/Holiday should have been the consideration at #8 - those are the guys we talked about hopefully having a chance at throughout the Spring, they were there and Donnie just whiffed. He should man up and say so.

He should man up? You don't even man up when you swing and miss.

Raw as in only 5 years of organized bball. Let me give you another example of a player who took time. Steve Nash. Dude was caca for like 5 years. Traded. Injured. And then boom, All-star and MVP.

Dirk was raw and crap his first year. Did his GM man up or was he thoughtful enough to let things play out?

martin wrote:

He should man up? You don't even man up when you swing and miss.

Raw as in only 5 years of organized bball. Let me give you another example of a player who took time. Steve Nash. Dude was caca for like 5 years. Traded. Injured. And then boom, All-star and MVP.

Dirk was raw and crap his first year. Did his GM man up or was he thoughtful enough to let things play out?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3103/career;_ylt=AhAc7F.Fj32VdLPSyfprP84ZPKB4

nash's career stat chart says otherwise

JohnWallace44 wrote:You're funny how you support this pick Martin

Nash was picked #15 - and played behind Kevin Johnson, Sam Cassell and Jason Kidd. He averaged 3 points and 2 assists a game, playing 10 minutes and shot 41% from three.

Wake Donnie up when Douglas gets to those numbers playing behind the mighty Chris Duhon.

Dirk put up 8 points and 3 boards a game in 20 minutes per as a rookie. Again, when Hill gets there... give Donnie a nudge.

He is playing behind Gallo, Lee, Harrington, Darko at the 4/5. He is learning a new system. He is a rookie.

As a coach, which of those first 4 guys do you take time away from?

Is it unreasonable that he is sitting? No. Is it disappointing that he is not better? Of course. Is Hill a slam dunk failure? No.

I am not supporting this pick so much as taking issue with your arguments and reasoning.

JohnWallace44 wrote:When the three guys picked after your slot are all starting and Hill is pegged to the bench, and we're worse than those teams (yes we're worse than the Nets) then you missed. That's all there is to it.

lol, worst argument ever.