coolbeans wrote:@evil i wouldnt value a movie over my wife and daughter (whether its my intellectual property or not.) in today's world to appear nude on a magazine leads to women being (unfairly) labeled and treated negatively. plus severely limiting their career options of just doing porn. there's zero scorn or ill treatment by society youtubing.

coolbeans wrote:@evil i dont see the equivalency of posing nude for a magazine and youtubing. seriously what would hurt you more wife youtubing a movie or wife ***** popping on a magazine.

You're right. There is no equivalence. Posing nude is legal. Uploading copyrighted content to YouTube is illegal.

Bonn1997 wrote:

orangeblobman wrote:i don't download any copyrighted intellectual property. there are just sites that happen to stream certain sections of movies, they are hosted on legitimate video hosting sites. no downloading or distributing or recording ever takes place. does this change it at all?

and let's say i never planned to see movie A, that means my money was never going to go into supporting movie A. but a site comes to my attention where, sometimes, low quality videos of movie A are streamed, but never downloaded (or distributed by me). did i really hurt the studio by misdirecting money that never existed, or i was never going to spend, in the first place?

That's basically the utilitarian argument on ethical behavior--"I got enjoyment out of it and it harmed no one--so it's a net gain for humanity." The argument can be used to justify violating all sorts of moral principles (e.g., setting up a spy cam in a locker room and getting enjoyment out of it while the other persons never found out. You get your enjoyment and they never know.)

equating a locker room spy cam to streaming bootleg movies is just an unreasonable comparison that doesn't deserve a response.

put another way, if streaming, low-quality, bootleg movies aren't available, the studio STILL doesn't stand to make any money because their product holds no $ value to me. if it's there, it's there. also, if the MOVIE DIDN"T exist, i would not feel any loss or sense of emptiness. that's not simmilar at all with setting up a spy cam in a locker room.

orangeblobman wrote:illegal, ok, but morally wrong? don't see a case.

SupremeCommander wrote:

orangeblobman wrote:illegal, ok, but morally wrong? don't see a case.

It's illegal because it is theft of another's property. In every legal, social, and religious context, theft is considered immoral. You can spin it how you want, but it is theft. And the type of theft you are perpetuating isn't exactly like the hungry stealing bread.

it's not theft, bro, as i explained. i explained this.

The entertainment business has been given multiple opportunities to stop what goes on. Personally, Ive been involved with companies that have patented products that would disrupt the pirating activity. Fact is, its not as simple as not giving your money to the studios or artists. The big entertainment honchos have a lot of different factors to consider and for whatever dumb reason have actually chosen to continue the status quo. Put it this way, at the moment, they prefer to fight piracy and lose, then disrupt their current networks of movie theatres, DVD conversion timeframes and royalties. They figure they still make money, and they refuse to disenfranchise companies and entire industries that they have been working with for decades.

Its not my fault that they are looking more and more like ancient dinosaurs with their gross disregard of the power of the internet. They have had opportunities to fix the system, but they dont want to, for whatever reason, be it investment or previous working relationships. They'll figure it out eventually, and the free piracy system will die. Well, until they pull their finger out, I personally shall continue to take advantage of their stiff-necked backwards thinking and watch what I want.

Oh, and Im a big fan of nude posing, but I still believe that overall, it contributes to a degradation of society which in my personal opinion has contributed to the rise of teenage pregnancy and a diminishing of young peoples life goals. Used to be a dream to become a doctor, now theres a huge slice of global, not just American society whose life goals is Big Brother, or anything that gets them into next months issue of Heat. And if I gotta get my wotsits out for the lads to be famous, so be it. I dont like it. And im as liberal as it gets.

coolbeans wrote:

orangeblobman wrote:illegal, ok, but morally wrong? don't see a case.

which is the point of the thread. morality is just society's way of getting on a soapbox to spit down. we can hate that the soapbox exists, but it doesnt stop it from existing-- and since it does we are wise to protect our women from it.

I think that it is wrong, becuase it does hurt society as a whole. Additionally our society's predilection for it is out of control. For every drive or desire there's something to satisfy it. Too much leads to disaster though. Just as too much food will lead to obesity, and a whole constellation of problems. In the same way we have increasing teen pregnancy, STDs and such. It's gotten to the point where you can have people spend all day and lots of money trying not to get some but even just looking at images and other poor representations. Imagine if you spent all day drooling over your grocery store flier.

SupremeCommander wrote:

firefly wrote:By the way, the legality and morality of streaming and downloading movies and tv shows on the internet is a far bigger and more complex issue then has been discussed so far.

The entertainment business has been given multiple opportunities to stop what goes on. Personally, Ive been involved with companies that have patented products that would disrupt the pirating activity. Fact is, its not as simple as not giving your money to the studios or artists. The big entertainment honchos have a lot of different factors to consider and for whatever dumb reason have actually chosen to continue the status quo. Put it this way, at the moment, they prefer to fight piracy and lose, then disrupt their current networks of movie theatres, DVD conversion timeframes and royalties. They figure they still make money, and they refuse to disenfranchise companies and entire industries that they have been working with for decades.

Its not my fault that they are looking more and more like ancient dinosaurs with their gross disregard of the power of the internet. They have had opportunities to fix the system, but they dont want to, for whatever reason, be it investment or previous working relationships. They'll figure it out eventually, and the free piracy system will die. Well, until they pull their finger out, I personally shall continue to take advantage of their stiff-necked backwards thinking and watch what I want.

Oh, and Im a big fan of nude posing, but I still believe that overall, it contributes to a degradation of society which in my personal opinion has contributed to the rise of teenage pregnancy and a diminishing of young peoples life goals. Used to be a dream to become a doctor, now theres a huge slice of global, not just American society whose life goals is Big Brother, or anything that gets them into next months issue of Heat. And if I gotta get my wotsits out for the lads to be famous, so be it. I dont like it. And im as liberal as it gets.

Well this should be an entirely different thread, because this is an interesting conversation.

There are established methods of distribution and established business models. In keeping the status quo these companies will continue to exist. For example, stores like Sam Goody don't exist anymore with the proliferation of iTunes and stores like Best Buy, Target, WalMart offering the same product much cheaper.

So the industry digging and refusing to relent simply because in changing the distribution platform, these mature companies are exposing themselves to new competition and exposing themselves to the risk of going out of business. A new platform will allow new competitors into the marketplace and the established companies are used to doing it the old way--and probably won't succeed.

I agree its an interesting conversation. Thanks for you're contribution to it but I didnt get an opinion either way based on what you wrote. Whas your opinion?

orangeblobman wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

orangeblobman wrote:i don't download any copyrighted intellectual property. there are just sites that happen to stream certain sections of movies, they are hosted on legitimate video hosting sites. no downloading or distributing or recording ever takes place. does this change it at all?

no, officer, I didn't actually rape that woman, I just watched it happen

orangeblobman wrote:and let's say i never planned to see movie A, that means my money was never going to go into supporting movie A. but a site comes to my attention where, sometimes, low quality videos of movie A are streamed, but never downloaded (or distributed by me). did i really hurt the studio by misdirecting money that never existed, or i was never going to spend, in the first place?

Let's say I never planned on buying an Aston Martin, so my money was never going to the dealership...

Like Bonn said, you're rationalizing your behavior. Maybe that makes your behavior acceptable to you. But that doesn't change the facts, bro

you can't liken it to rape and aston martins are valuable because they're so cool. movies for the most part make you dumb and lazy, so. what can i say? fine, i will stop, no more.

i mean, my stand on posing nude has nothing to do with streaming movies, this is not common sense no matter what language it's wrapped in. and it's like, i'm being demonized while the truly evil people...the one's recording the stuff, leaking the stuff, distributing the stuff, facilitating the stuff, it's like i'm in the same boat as them; no way.

The reason you are being "demonized" as you put it, is because like someone else has posted in thread...you are shoving your beliefs into everyone else. If you just said, I believe this and that...then it will be ok, but since you state things as a matter of fact then you will be called out and questioned.

Like I said before, everyone should have their own opinion and as long as no one is getting hurt I am ok with that.