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DAntoni on Douglas "He's very intriguing. I think the guy can contribute right away."
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Cosmic
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10/2/2009  6:24 PM
Posted by JrZyHuStLa:
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by JrZyHuStLa:

Talk is cheap.

Mark my words. Just in case they're wrong LOL.

Douglas will be better than Hill.
As much as Lee was better than Frye.

Douglas, fellas, is our diamond in the rough.

I'm not saying he's going to be bad. I'm just sick of Knick hype. I can honestly say we haven't drafted a stud since Ewing. Yes, Lee and Nate are good, but they aren't the franchise impact kind of guys.

Hey, you're preaching to the choir on dismissing any and all hype, and wanting players to PROVE it.

Yet, to me, there is just something about Douglas that just looks great. I think he is going to end up being a solid NBA player.

As somebody alluded to in this thread "Our Rondo?"....yes, I think, somewhere along those lines.

The kid is smart, his family is smart and supportive, and he seems to have all the talent and college stats in the world to back up his potential.

We'll see but if this guy isn't as good for us as Charlie Ward was to the late 90s Knicks then well I guess I was wrong about Douglas.

Yep, I feel that strongly about him.

http://popcornmachine.net/ A must-use tool for NBA stat junkies!
AUTOADVERT
Cosmic
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10/2/2009  6:25 PM
Posted by K22:
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by JrZyHuStLa:

Talk is cheap.

Mark my words. Just in case they're wrong LOL.

Douglas will be better than Hill.
As much as Lee was better than Frye.

Douglas, fellas, is our diamond in the rough.

I think so too. Someone told me his game is kinda like KJ's.... is that true?

BTW, who was the last GREAT point guard we've had? Derek Harper? Sugar Ray?

Charlie Ward.

I liked Harper but he wasn't all that different from Ward IMO in terms of overall impact.

I think Douglas will indeed become our next Harper/Ward.

I just have a feeling about it and it's rare I get those so who knows. Let's hope I'm right.
http://popcornmachine.net/ A must-use tool for NBA stat junkies!
nixluva
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10/2/2009  11:23 PM
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by K22:
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by JrZyHuStLa:

Talk is cheap.

Mark my words. Just in case they're wrong LOL.

Douglas will be better than Hill.
As much as Lee was better than Frye.

Douglas, fellas, is our diamond in the rough.

I think so too. Someone told me his game is kinda like KJ's.... is that true?

BTW, who was the last GREAT point guard we've had? Derek Harper? Sugar Ray?

Charlie Ward.

I liked Harper but he wasn't all that different from Ward IMO in terms of overall impact.

I think Douglas will indeed become our next Harper/Ward.

I just have a feeling about it and it's rare I get those so who knows. Let's hope I'm right.

I get that Ward vibe with him too and it's not heresy to suggest that he could end up being better than Ward. I think he's got more offensive punch and swagger. Ward had a quiet fire inside, whereas I think TD is more extroverted and aggressive.
misterearl
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10/3/2009  9:12 AM
Forget the comparisons.

Toney is more rugged than Charlie Ward and Ward was a football player.

Charlie Ward was a football player first and was paint by numbers on the court. He had to learn one primary responsibility - how, and where, to dump the pill inside to Patrick Ewing. No creativity required. Ward's game never evolved too far past that mundane goal. He developed an adequate three point shot because he was allergic to the paint. Point caddie. You will not see Toney leading any prayer circles on the court.

Toney is a basketball player first and foremost - and has polished intuitive skills. Douglas' comprehension skills, combined with his work ethic, will allow him to make adjustments to the lightning quick NBA that are invisible to the untrained eye. As Douglas adapts to the speed of the pro game, he will be testing his limits and simultaneously calibrating the results on the fly. He will not make the same mistake twice as Mike D'Antoni will absolutely love the way he absorbs information from the sideline. By February 13th, you will start to hear certain adjectives repeated from the interviews of from Coach Mike - like "confidence", "quarterback", "trust", and "leader"

Just invert the frustration that D'Antoni visibly exerts with Nate - and watch his sideline demeanor when Douglas jacks up a play. There will be no glares or raising his voice at Douglas. He will be less prone to remove him from as game after a glaring error because D'Antoni will test him to play his way through mistakes. Hear me now and believe me later - he will look Toney in the eye and calmly repeat what he wants and Toney will simply go out and do it - in the same manner he followed his Dad's guiding hand. D'Antoni will calmly retreat to his seat on the bench knowing his words resonated with his floor leader.

Will there be lessons to learn? Of course. All rookies have lessons to learn. As well as some veterans. But just remember that coaches adore guys who listen attentively while looking them in the eye. Not the guys who shuffle looking for a drink of water or a dry towel. There will be mistakes by Toney and the naysayers will be quick on the trigger to bleat, "I TOLD you he was not... blah... blah..."

Forget them.

did somebody say basketball IQ?
once a knick always a knick
Cosmic
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10/3/2009  9:14 AM
I agree on the aggression. Yet it is a controlled aggression at that. I think this kid is going to surprise us. I think he is going to force his way into the rotation.

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Panos
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10/3/2009  9:21 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Forget the comparisons.

Toney is more rugged than Charlie Ward and Ward was a football player.

Charlie Ward was a football player first and was paint by numbers on the court. He had to learn one primary responsibility - how, and where, to dump the pill inside to Patrick Ewing. No creativity required. Ward's game never evolved too far past that mundane goal. He developed an adequate three point shot because he was allergic to the paint. Point caddie. You will not see Toney leading any prayer circles on the court.

Toney is a basketball player first and foremost - and has polished intuitive skills. Douglas' comprehension skills, combined with his work ethic, will allow him to make adjustments to the lightning quick NBA that are invisible to the untrained eye. As Douglas adapts to the speed of the pro game, he will be testing his limits and simultaneously calibrating the results on the fly. He will not make the same mistake twice as Mike D'Antoni will absolutely love the way he absorbs information from the sideline. By February 13th, you will start to hear certain adjectives repeated from the interviews of from Coach Mike - like "confidence", "quarterback", "trust", and "leader"

Just invert the frustration that D'Antoni visibly exerts with Nate - and watch his sideline demeanor when Douglas jacks up a play. There will be no glares or raising his voice at Douglas. He will be less prone to remove him from as game after a glaring error because D'Antoni will test him to play his way through mistakes. Hear me now and believe me later - he will look Toney in the eye and calmly repeat what he wants and Toney will simply go out and do it - in the same manner he followed his Dad's guiding hand. D'Antoni will calmly retreat to his seat on the bench knowing his words resonated with his floor leader.

Will there be lessons to learn? Of course. All rookies have lessons to learn. As well as some veterans. But just remember that coaches adore guys who listen attentively while looking them in the eye. Not the guys who shuffle looking for a drink of water or a dry towel. There will be mistakes by Toney and the naysayers will be quick on the trigger to bleat, "I TOLD you he was not... blah... blah..."

Forget them.

did somebody say basketball IQ?


Give me a break. I love how you always project that you have some kind of inside track.
State something strongly enough, and it will be so, is that it?
We'll be lucky if this guy is as good as Charlie Ward.
orangeblobman
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Nauru
10/3/2009  9:26 AM
Being a goofball is fun and entertaining, but when work has to be done no one likes a goofball. I hope Tony can develop enough to replace Nate by the end of the season.
WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
Allanfan20
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10/3/2009  10:15 AM
Posted by orangeblobman:

Being a goofball is fun and entertaining, but when work has to be done no one likes a goofball. I hope Tony can develop enough to replace Nate by the end of the season.

To replace Nate? How about hopefully Tony can develop to become our PG of the future (Not saying it can or can't happen) and that Nate can continue to be the dynamic player he is and continue toning it down, the way he has been. He only had maybe a couple of bad setbacks last year.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
SupremeCommander
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10/3/2009  11:07 AM
I think Douglas could develop into a faster, less strong version of Derek Fisher--which would be awesome. I see him providing defense, I see him hitting big shots, and I see him initiating challenging offensive system(s).

Hill is much more raw than Frye was and Douglas may be more polished than Nate was. So I'm not going to rush into saying Hill/Douglas will pan out like Frye/Nate. I mean Frye was drafted as a finished product. Hill very well could develop and he has the raw tools to develop well--but who knows. I'll definitely agree that Douglas is better than Hill right now, but it'll be interesting to revisit this during the offseason, and 3 or 5 years down the road. I will acknowledge Hill could be a bust, but he's got the tools to develop into a player
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
nixluva
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10/3/2009  11:08 AM
Nate should be free to be what he is, an explosive scorer off the bench! TD will allow us to play that way cuz he seems to be more of a PG and has decent size for PG as well. I really don't see a negative to the fact that MDA has been pleasantly surprised by to improvement of TD. The more confidence MDA shows in him the better he'll feel and it should spur him on to keep working to get better. Positive reinforcement!
orangeblobman
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Nauru
10/3/2009  3:07 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by orangeblobman:

Being a goofball is fun and entertaining, but when work has to be done no one likes a goofball. I hope Tony can develop enough to replace Nate by the end of the season.

To replace Nate? How about hopefully Tony can develop to become our PG of the future (Not saying it can or can't happen) and that Nate can continue to be the dynamic player he is and continue toning it down, the way he has been. He only had maybe a couple of bad setbacks last year.

He's a little too dynamic.
WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
Ira
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10/3/2009  4:18 PM
Nate reminds me a little of the guy that the Pistons had many years ago who came off the bench at both guard spots - Vinnie Johnson.
Olbrannon
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10/3/2009  4:35 PM
Some vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5pKslHoYaQ of last years ACC semi-final tournament game. Lawson was seated during this game. In the game at the Civic Center in Tallahassee
UNC won on a last second buzzer beater by Lawson. After the game Lawson was quoted as saying about Toney.."I didn't know he was that good."

After his fresman year at Auburn ..TD tested NBA waters but withdrew from the draft. A move that was not appreciated by Auburn's coach. So he transfers to FSU and sits a year.

His first year on the floor at FSU he teams with Al Thorton (now with the Clippers) and makes some noise. Upsetting U of Florida (Lee on that squad iirc with Nick Calathes, Udonis Haslem and Yoachim Noah} and Duke they seemed primed to make it to the NCAA but Toney breaks an ankle and the 'Noles drop the next 6 in a row...settling for the NIT's

Next year. Alabi has issues and FSU with no inside presence plays a 4 guard line-up much of the season. NIT's

Last year. The season begin with a freshman dominated roster. Toney takes it upon himself to get them ready. FSU is picked to end up as the number 8-9 finisher in conference play. It is ugly basketball accentuating defense most of the early season...Toney sometimes carries the team on his back to a win.

What I didn't like about Toney: he showed this in Summer League as well...sometimes picks up his dribble and more than once was called for over and back. I believe D'Antoni has coached him over this cause I don't see it in the scrimmage footage that I have seen.

I've been a Seminole basketball fan long enough to have personally watched (TV) Cowens vs Artis Gilmore, Sura, Ward and Cassel. (BTW anyone notice how much Duhon looks like Sam?)

Toney's game is not like Ward's. Toney does not fear the paint. He is stronger and maybe faster. Ward was more cerebral. The rest of the intangibles ...leading by example...yada yada Toney has them.

The press is all wrapped up in the idea of him as a shooter. Bah. He is a point first but can rotate to two to make a mismatch if it's there.

I remember reading of "Clyde" showng up in the Garden all decked out for a game. If it were Toney doing this he'd dress in coveralls and bring a hardhat and a lunch pail. He is a gamer and never quits.

Prediction- if the Knicks fall short of the playoffs...expect Toney to break down and cry...he is that into it. And expect Toney to be a great pairing with Nate. They will be good for each other I think.
Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
nixluva
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10/3/2009  5:29 PM
WOW Olbrannon, nice Post!

I hope TD has a big year. It's setup for anyone that wants it to take the spot they want. I don't really think Nate wants to be THE backup PG. I think he would love to be the backup SG and just concentrate on scoring, so I think TD has a great shot to get good minutes.
misterearl
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10/3/2009  5:51 PM
"State something strongly enough, and it will be so, is that it?"

Exactly

Panos - by contrast, your rebuttal was weak and devoid of any meaningful or researched Knicks content

You can never aspire to be Jedi without understanding the force. Your basketball IQ is in serious need of a remedial work. I suggest a tutor. Please read Olbrannon's post and take note of how he backs his opinion with facts.

Panos - You are simply a stone thrower

(Disclaimer: this is NOT a personal attack. It is appeal to raise the level of basketball discourse from the mundane, boring, routine, Fox News type of response to informed critique. In other words, it is simply a little chin music to back a dude off the inside part of the plate. Simply stated, it is a challenge to write better commentary. If UK is a place for basketball experts, It is strictly business)

One more thing. Go Knicks
once a knick always a knick
Olbrannon
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10/3/2009  6:33 PM
*waves* thanks guys for the props ^^ I can go on if you like...I have more.

Like as a junior in HS decides to pursue basketball over other sports (claims the air conditioning was more to his liking than the sun) and so shows up at the gym at 6 am it's locked so he call his coach and gets him out of bed to come open the gym.

How Leonard Hamilton said Toney was always already at the gym when he got there in the AM

Runs suicide drills on his own time.

Coach K said he was his favorite player (..then changed it to non-Duke player)
Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
orangeblobman
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Nauru
10/3/2009  7:28 PM
^Hey Olbrannon, are you Toney Douglas!?!!?
WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
Olbrannon
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10/3/2009  7:32 PM
No...just a fan...never met him face to face. did see him in practice and have read every word of print about Seminole basketball or football in the last 30+ years.

I have always had this thing for underdogs..people who work their arses off to achieve something they want. That's Toney
Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
Marv
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10/3/2009  8:46 PM
Posted by Olbrannon:

I've been a Seminole basketball fan long enough to have personally watched (TV) Cowens vs Artis Gilmore,
good lord son you just said the magic words. that jacksonville team was my all-time favorite college team. they were the aba of college basketball. the original twin towers in artis and pembrooke. remember them in the si shot with their heads sticking out of the vw bug? vaughn wedeking. rex morgan. greg nelson. most exciting college team ever. earl, nalod, oldfan, ira, papa help me out here. how much did you guys love that team?
Olbrannon
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10/3/2009  9:08 PM
Yeah...I remember ...I also remember it took two of them in the paint on Cowens to win. And they couldn't do it now because the rules have changed.

Remember Otto Petty and Ron King?
Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
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DAntoni on Douglas "He's very intriguing. I think the guy can contribute right away."
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