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fishmike
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9/2/2009  1:13 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

If Lebron was a Knick for 5 years--drafted him--grew up with him--had success with him--very early in his career--as a fan would you care if he opted to leave our team for no apparent reason?
If Dolan was putting out the money helping the management do everything it could to try to help Lebron win--how would you feel if he got up and left? It's like Michael Jordan leaving the Bulls after 5 years or Larry Bird leaving the Celtics. The KG example is dumb--number 1 he was traded for a kings ransom and number 2 he already spent his 13 years there. Shaq is the only guy who has done this but Shaq could care less about anyone else but Shaq--and that is obvious. How could Lebron disappoint so many fans --so many kids--for what? If there was 1 legitimate reason for him to leave Cleveland--I wouldnt care but that isnt the case. If Cleveland wants to trade us Lebron James---Ok great--but leaving for no apparent reason--atleast to me is brutal and I hope he does not do it. This has nothing to do with the Knicks or any other club--we wouldnt want it done to us--nor do I want to wish it on other fans.
Did you just come back from spending the summer in Disney world with your kids? This is a totally delusional post.

Teams trade guys and make roster moves with ZERO consideration for that player's feelings or attachment to the community. Lebron is an asset to the Cavaliers. All these guys are.

Shaq did what was best for Shaq and Lebron is going to do exactly the same.

This isnt little league here. This is business... for everyone.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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TMS
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9/2/2009  1:17 PM
this is how Donnie & most Knicks fans feel about Lebron leaving Cleveland

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
fishmike
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9/2/2009  1:24 PM
and Briggs... Lebron wouldnt be leaving for no apparent reason. There would be very clear reasons. He can make more money. He will get more exposure. He likes the coach 100x better. He wants to live in the area. There are always reasons. Just because you dont like them or agree doesnt mean there are no apparent reasons.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
subzero0
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9/2/2009  1:44 PM
Posted by bitty41:

What happens if Lebron leaves Clev for NY and the whole thing is a complete failure? The Knicks become just a playoff team that can't make it past the 2nd round, the NY papers rake Lebron over the coals on a daily basis, and the Knicks don't have the necessary cap space to bring in a better supporting cast?


Or has everyone just dismissed this as a impossibility?

I cannot imagine a team going very far with subpar defense, no consistent outside shooting, and medicore to poor point guard play. Does everyone that much confidence in Walsh that he will address this all in a year with very limited assets and no draft picks? I think anyone believing that if Lebron signs here it will just be apart of the rebuilding process is deluding themselves. There is absolutely no doubt that immediate expectations for the Knicks will be to win a title.

[Edited by - bitty41 on 09-02-2009 12:48 PM]

+1
sebstar
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9/2/2009  2:00 PM
Posted by bitty41:

What happens if Lebron leaves Clev for NY and the whole thing is a complete failure? The Knicks become just a playoff team that can't make it past the 2nd round, the NY papers rake Lebron over the coals on a daily basis, and the Knicks don't have the necessary cap space to bring in a better supporting cast?


Or has everyone just dismissed this as a impossibility?

I cannot imagine a team going very far with subpar defense, no consistent outside shooting, and medicore to poor point guard play. Does everyone that much confidence in Walsh that he will address this all in a year with very limited assets and no draft picks? I think anyone believing that if Lebron signs here it will just be apart of the rebuilding process is deluding themselves. There is absolutely no doubt that immediate expectations for the Knicks will be to win a title.

[Edited by - bitty41 on 09-02-2009 12:48 PM]

Ill take my chances with Lebron on the squad, thank you.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
nyvector16
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9/2/2009  2:04 PM
I could Agree with Briggs if Cleveland had not thrown so many games in order to get that top pick the year before Lebron entered the draft. I don't feel sorry for any team that loses a superstar to Free Agency. The Spurs would not even have Tim Dunkin if they had'nt thrown so many games. Celtics tried the same formula before they ended up with the 3rd pick or whatever it was and traded it. The system as it currently stands is broken. If Knicks had tanked like alot of these other teams have in the past 10 years we would have at least 1 or 2 superstars on the team already.
FrenchKnicks
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9/2/2009  2:05 PM
Posted by nyvector16:

I could Agree with Briggs if Cleveland had not thrown so many games in order to get that top pick the year before Lebron entered the draft. I don't feel sorry for any team that loses a superstar to Free Agency. The Spurs would not even have Tim Dunkin if they had'nt thrown so many games. Celtics tried the same formula before they ended up with the 3rd pick or whatever it was and traded it. The system as it currently stands is broken. If Knicks had tanked like alot of these other teams have in the past 10 years we would have at least 1 or 2 superstars on the team already.

We suck at sucking, that's how lame we have been in the past 10 years...
bitty41
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9/2/2009  2:12 PM
Posted by fishmike:

and Briggs... Lebron wouldnt be leaving for no apparent reason. There would be very clear reasons. He can make more money. He will get more exposure. He likes the coach 100x better. He wants to live in the area. There are always reasons. Just because you dont like them or agree doesnt mean there are no apparent reasons.

He can make more money
Can't Clev offer him a better long-term contract and endorsement deals will always come Lebron's way as long as his team's remain successful. If Clev wins a title while he's there you honestly think Nike or any other other company is going to pay him any less because he won it in Clev? Money and success run hand and hand. If a player performs well on a elite team money will follow him. If Lebron comes here and NY performs expectations now how will that play for his endorsements? That's the real question.
He will get more exposure
So I honestly think the exposure issue would be very valid 20 years ago but not in the age the internet, NBA TV, all-season packages Pre-Season International games etc. My good friend in Australia probably watches more NBA games then I do.
He likes the coach 100x better
If serious doubts about this statement because if this was really true Lebron would have pushed D'Antoni's name when he was available last off season.
He wants to live in the area
There is nothing stopping him from purchasing a home in NYC. Somehow I think Lebron can afford the airfare to NYC on a regular basis
Moonangie
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9/2/2009  2:42 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

I understand the concept. I understand the satisfaction of building your own team. I understand all that. That being said, if Lebron is here I'm pretty sure we all will be cheerign as loudly as we would if we built from scratch.

Winning is about building your team. There are three ways to acquire players and build a team. You can do it in the draft, via trade, and via free-agency. As a fan of sport I've seen all my teams take advantage of all of these avenues. personally I don't give a rats asse how my team actually builds a title team. I just want them to do it.

I wholeheartedly agree with your post Bip. Well said. Who gives a rat's arse how it gets done. We ALL want the same thing in NY: A reason to cheer, championship or not. I just want to get excited when I watch my basketball team (for whom I have rooted ardently since the 1970's) and to feel that hoops at the NBA level has relevance for me once again.

March madness is awesome, but afterward I am quickly onto spring training and the start of the baseball season. Been that way since Ewing was done here. It's time for the rebirth, any which way it can happen.
Posted by bitty41:

What happens if Lebron leaves Clev for NY and the whole thing is a complete failure? The Knicks become just a playoff team that can't make it past the 2nd round, the NY papers rake Lebron over the coals on a daily basis, and the Knicks don't have the necessary cap space to bring in a better supporting cast?


Or has everyone just dismissed this as a impossibility?

I cannot imagine a team going very far with subpar defense, no consistent outside shooting, and medicore to poor point guard play. Does everyone that much confidence in Walsh that he will address this all in a year with very limited assets and no draft picks? I think anyone believing that if Lebron signs here it will just be apart of the rebuilding process is deluding themselves. There is absolutely no doubt that immediate expectations for the Knicks will be to win a title.

[Edited by - bitty41 on 09-02-2009 12:48 PM]

JJ and Eddie are gone the very next year. That adds up to another max contract. We have a very young nucleus of talent. Add in another max player, our post-2010 draft picks, and veterans like AH who will take whatever to just be part of this thing, and I like our chances with Lebron over the next few years. There are no guarantees in sports (that's why they play actual games) and it wouldn't be fun for me as a fan if we were GUARANTEED championship. But saying that it's "win it the year we get Lebron or else it's a failure" is just plain lunacy.

[Edited by - Moonangie on 09-02-2009 2:47 PM]
Bippity10
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9/2/2009  2:43 PM
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by bitty41:

What happens if Lebron leaves Clev for NY and the whole thing is a complete failure? The Knicks become just a playoff team that can't make it past the 2nd round, the NY papers rake Lebron over the coals on a daily basis, and the Knicks don't have the necessary cap space to bring in a better supporting cast?


Or has everyone just dismissed this as a impossibility?

I cannot imagine a team going very far with subpar defense, no consistent outside shooting, and medicore to poor point guard play. Does everyone that much confidence in Walsh that he will address this all in a year with very limited assets and no draft picks? I think anyone believing that if Lebron signs here it will just be apart of the rebuilding process is deluding themselves. There is absolutely no doubt that immediate expectations for the Knicks will be to win a title.

[Edited by - bitty41 on 09-02-2009 12:48 PM]

Ill take my chances with Lebron on the squad, thank you.

There's also the possibility that Lebron tears up his knee and has to retire. There is also the possibility he ends up like Ewing and comes up short every year. He could come here and become a prima donna and slack off and become the scourge of NY that gets boo'd out of town. A lot of things could happen. I'm still all for going after him.
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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9/2/2009  2:45 PM
As for Lebron letting down Cleveland fans. As an adult your job is to make the right decision for yourself and your family. If that is NY, Cleveland or elsewhere it is Lebron's decision. If Lebron was a Knick and left for elsewhere via free agency, I would boo the crizzap out of him every time he came here. But he doesn't owe me anything when it comes to making life decisions. I personally respect a man's right to make his own choices(Bitty, I also appreciate a woman's rights to have her decisions made by a man........Just kidding).

[Edited by - bippity10 on 02-09-2009 2:46 PM]
I just hope that people will like me
djsunyc
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9/2/2009  2:45 PM
Posted by Moonangie:

We ALL want the same thing in NY: A reason to cheer, championship or not. I just want to get excited when I watch my basketball team (for whom I have rooted ardently since the 1970's) and to feel that hoops at the NBA level has relevance for me once again.

you are in the minority on this board. the overwhelming sentiment on this forum is that if you don't win a title, you're not "winner".

when a team has advanced to the 2nd round or conference finals, most here look at that and ask "but what have they won?"

you're view of sports is probably alot more healthy than many others. a reason to cheer doesn't necessarily involve lebron.
djsunyc
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9/2/2009  2:47 PM
patrick ewing was exposed to the worst of ny...fans and media.

will the same happen to lebron if he doesn't deliver to the championship or bust crowd or have the fans matured over the past 9 years of doo doo?
bitty41
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9/2/2009  2:52 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Moonangie:

We ALL want the same thing in NY: A reason to cheer, championship or not. I just want to get excited when I watch my basketball team (for whom I have rooted ardently since the 1970's) and to feel that hoops at the NBA level has relevance for me once again.

you are in the minority on this board. the overwhelming sentiment on this forum is that if you don't win a title, you're not "winner".

when a team has advanced to the 2nd round or conference finals, most here look at that and ask "but what have they won?"

you're view of sports is probably alot more healthy than many others. a reason to cheer doesn't necessarily involve lebron.

I think there's a lot success to be had between winning a Championship and not making the playoffs at all. But you have to admit that if the Knicks do land Lebron the immediate expectation in the Sports World will be for a Championship or at least Finals appearace?

I happen to consider Ewing's career in NY successful whereas some fans can only remember the missed finger roll. But Lebron with the money at stake, media hype, and the fact he left a very successful team tremendous pressure will be placed him whether it's fair or not.
Marv
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9/2/2009  2:52 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Moonangie:

We ALL want the same thing in NY: A reason to cheer, championship or not. I just want to get excited when I watch my basketball team (for whom I have rooted ardently since the 1970's) and to feel that hoops at the NBA level has relevance for me once again.

you are in the minority on this board. the overwhelming sentiment on this forum is that if you don't win a title, you're not "winner".

when a team has advanced to the 2nd round or conference finals, most here look at that and ask "but what have they won?"

you're view of sports is probably alot more healthy than many others. a reason to cheer doesn't necessarily involve lebron.

as long as new york's italian destroys toronto's italian every time they're on the court, i'll be happy.
bitty41
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9/2/2009  2:54 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by bitty41:

What happens if Lebron leaves Clev for NY and the whole thing is a complete failure? The Knicks become just a playoff team that can't make it past the 2nd round, the NY papers rake Lebron over the coals on a daily basis, and the Knicks don't have the necessary cap space to bring in a better supporting cast?


Or has everyone just dismissed this as a impossibility?

I cannot imagine a team going very far with subpar defense, no consistent outside shooting, and medicore to poor point guard play. Does everyone that much confidence in Walsh that he will address this all in a year with very limited assets and no draft picks? I think anyone believing that if Lebron signs here it will just be apart of the rebuilding process is deluding themselves. There is absolutely no doubt that immediate expectations for the Knicks will be to win a title.

[Edited by - bitty41 on 09-02-2009 12:48 PM]

Ill take my chances with Lebron on the squad, thank you.

There's also the possibility that Lebron tears up his knee and has to retire. There is also the possibility he ends up like Ewing and comes up short every year. He could come here and become a prima donna and slack off and become the scourge of NY that gets boo'd out of town. A lot of things could happen. I'm still all for going after him.


I guess what I'm trying to say is that I would support this plan more if Walsh was currently upgrading the talent. Because I don't really subscribe to the belief that one single free-agent or even two will make everything fall into place.
Moonangie
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9/2/2009  2:55 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Moonangie:

We ALL want the same thing in NY: A reason to cheer, championship or not. I just want to get excited when I watch my basketball team (for whom I have rooted ardently since the 1970's) and to feel that hoops at the NBA level has relevance for me once again.

you are in the minority on this board. the overwhelming sentiment on this forum is that if you don't win a title, you're not "winner".

when a team has advanced to the 2nd round or conference finals, most here look at that and ask "but what have they won?"

you're view of sports is probably alot more healthy than many others. a reason to cheer doesn't necessarily involve lebron.

Well that's a shame. The feeling I had in 2007 when the Giants finally got to the big game and somehow managed a victory (against ALL odds) was built on the foundation of over a decade of failure, making moves, more failure, frustration... a really difficult period. But it made the victory that much more unbelievable and wonderful. If it weren't for losing, winning wouldn't be much to get excited about. It's precisely that we DON'T win it everyyear that makes the winning such a wonderful experience.

As for the Knicks, there is so much pent up demand for winning that when we finally achieve it, they will have to close Seventh Avenue in both directions for miles to avoid damage to all the cars in the streets as we all march triumphantly out into the City.

As to my post, you're right, relevance to me just means we are in contention. Game 7, 1994 was such a pleasure, even though Charlie "Why Can't I Make A Simple Layup" Smith had the rock at crunch time. Fact is, we lost to a better team, one anchored by the Dream. But it was SO worth watching. Haven't really felt that way since then.

I think MDAs system, with the right group of players, can not only bring a championship back to NYC, but it can also reinvigorate interest in the NBA game once again aong us disillusioned fans.

Contention = success.
Fan = willing to wait however long it takes to get there.
Championship = priceless!
djsunyc
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9/2/2009  2:56 PM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Moonangie:

We ALL want the same thing in NY: A reason to cheer, championship or not. I just want to get excited when I watch my basketball team (for whom I have rooted ardently since the 1970's) and to feel that hoops at the NBA level has relevance for me once again.

you are in the minority on this board. the overwhelming sentiment on this forum is that if you don't win a title, you're not "winner".

when a team has advanced to the 2nd round or conference finals, most here look at that and ask "but what have they won?"

you're view of sports is probably alot more healthy than many others. a reason to cheer doesn't necessarily involve lebron.

as long as new york's italian destroys toronto's italian every time they're on the court, i'll be happy.

it should be interesting to see if gallo and belinelli match up...
sebstar
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9/2/2009  3:23 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by bitty41:

What happens if Lebron leaves Clev for NY and the whole thing is a complete failure? The Knicks become just a playoff team that can't make it past the 2nd round, the NY papers rake Lebron over the coals on a daily basis, and the Knicks don't have the necessary cap space to bring in a better supporting cast?


Or has everyone just dismissed this as a impossibility?

I cannot imagine a team going very far with subpar defense, no consistent outside shooting, and medicore to poor point guard play. Does everyone that much confidence in Walsh that he will address this all in a year with very limited assets and no draft picks? I think anyone believing that if Lebron signs here it will just be apart of the rebuilding process is deluding themselves. There is absolutely no doubt that immediate expectations for the Knicks will be to win a title.

[Edited by - bitty41 on 09-02-2009 12:48 PM]

Ill take my chances with Lebron on the squad, thank you.

There's also the possibility that Lebron tears up his knee and has to retire. There is also the possibility he ends up like Ewing and comes up short every year. He could come here and become a prima donna and slack off and become the scourge of NY that gets boo'd out of town. A lot of things could happen. I'm still all for going after him.

An unknown asteroid could hit earth and destroy us all tomorrow, whats your point?

Lebron is the best 23 year old basketball player of all time. Worrying about what could go wrong is weird.

Then again, we are knick fans so pessimism is wired in our DNA at this point.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
Bippity10
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9/2/2009  3:24 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by bitty41:

What happens if Lebron leaves Clev for NY and the whole thing is a complete failure? The Knicks become just a playoff team that can't make it past the 2nd round, the NY papers rake Lebron over the coals on a daily basis, and the Knicks don't have the necessary cap space to bring in a better supporting cast?


Or has everyone just dismissed this as a impossibility?

I cannot imagine a team going very far with subpar defense, no consistent outside shooting, and medicore to poor point guard play. Does everyone that much confidence in Walsh that he will address this all in a year with very limited assets and no draft picks? I think anyone believing that if Lebron signs here it will just be apart of the rebuilding process is deluding themselves. There is absolutely no doubt that immediate expectations for the Knicks will be to win a title.

[Edited by - bitty41 on 09-02-2009 12:48 PM]

Ill take my chances with Lebron on the squad, thank you.

There's also the possibility that Lebron tears up his knee and has to retire. There is also the possibility he ends up like Ewing and comes up short every year. He could come here and become a prima donna and slack off and become the scourge of NY that gets boo'd out of town. A lot of things could happen. I'm still all for going after him.


I guess what I'm trying to say is that I would support this plan more if Walsh was currently upgrading the talent. Because I don't really subscribe to the belief that one single free-agent or even two will make everything fall into place.

I personally don't disagree. My question is this summer, what would you have done differently? Also say we don't get Lebron aren't we still in a pretty good position, with expiring contracts for trade, cap space for the chance to build like you are asking and young guys that hopefully will develop. Without Lebron we would still be in a better position than we are right now.
I just hope that people will like me
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