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Nalod got profiled and pulled over.......
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codeunknown
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8/15/2009  12:49 PM
Posted by sebstar:

how is this story analogous to Gates when Nalod, by his own admission, had bad tags and ran a stop sign? The officer was completely justified in pulling over Nalod, while Gates was doing nothing wrong and was simply entering his residence.

Furthermore, this is a question one could pose if we completely divorced ourselves from the long standing history of criminal justice and law enforcement abuse suffered by Blacks. Reminds me of that shirt 'its a Black thing, you wouldnt understand.' Cats like Nalod and others just dont get it.

I don't think anyone has suggested its truly analogous.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
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TMS
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8/15/2009  12:54 PM
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by codeunknown:

While difficult to draw hard conclusions from this one event, it is definitely useful as a preliminary gauge; the most appropriate initial hypothesis to draw here is that in a police encounter with potential racial bias, respect and demonstration of implicit trust in the motives of the law enforcement agent can gain one significant reprieve, even in a case of actual guilt. The correlate question is that, assuming (tentatively) that standard and reverse racial positions in police encounters have similar dynamics, would Gates have been left without incident had he politely explained himself? The larger questions are does protocol need to better defined to eliminate the subjectivity of police indiscretion, what level of anatagonistic interaction with police should be actionable and what generic profiling criteria are acceptable if statistics indicate safer communities?

Although it may be more difficult to respond with restraint for blacks who are accused (because of a context of injustice) as well as for those who haven't engaged in criminal behavior to begin with, Nalod's story may provide added incentive. From an intervention-results perspective, its certainly a pertinent anecdote to the Gates discussion. So not pointless, by a long shot.

dude, are u writing a paper?

Having trouble reading it?

not at all, but talk like a normal human being for God's sakes... you're not being graded on this sheit
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
codeunknown
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8/15/2009  1:02 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by codeunknown:

While difficult to draw hard conclusions from this one event, it is definitely useful as a preliminary gauge; the most appropriate initial hypothesis to draw here is that in a police encounter with potential racial bias, respect and demonstration of implicit trust in the motives of the law enforcement agent can gain one significant reprieve, even in a case of actual guilt. The correlate question is that, assuming (tentatively) that standard and reverse racial positions in police encounters have similar dynamics, would Gates have been left without incident had he politely explained himself? The larger questions are does protocol need to better defined to eliminate the subjectivity of police indiscretion, what level of anatagonistic interaction with police should be actionable and what generic profiling criteria are acceptable if statistics indicate safer communities?

Although it may be more difficult to respond with restraint for blacks who are accused (because of a context of injustice) as well as for those who haven't engaged in criminal behavior to begin with, Nalod's story may provide added incentive. From an intervention-results perspective, its certainly a pertinent anecdote to the Gates discussion. So not pointless, by a long shot.

dude, are u writing a paper?

Having trouble reading it?

not at all, but talk like a normal human being for God's sakes... you're not being graded on this sheit

Here's a thought - how about you improve your the content of your posts before critiquing the manner of mine? Trust me, your version of normal is not one that I or anyone else would aspire to approach.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
Caseloads
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8/15/2009  1:11 PM
Isn't nalod our own yimmy d?
TMS
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8/15/2009  1:14 PM
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by codeunknown:

While difficult to draw hard conclusions from this one event, it is definitely useful as a preliminary gauge; the most appropriate initial hypothesis to draw here is that in a police encounter with potential racial bias, respect and demonstration of implicit trust in the motives of the law enforcement agent can gain one significant reprieve, even in a case of actual guilt. The correlate question is that, assuming (tentatively) that standard and reverse racial positions in police encounters have similar dynamics, would Gates have been left without incident had he politely explained himself? The larger questions are does protocol need to better defined to eliminate the subjectivity of police indiscretion, what level of anatagonistic interaction with police should be actionable and what generic profiling criteria are acceptable if statistics indicate safer communities?

Although it may be more difficult to respond with restraint for blacks who are accused (because of a context of injustice) as well as for those who haven't engaged in criminal behavior to begin with, Nalod's story may provide added incentive. From an intervention-results perspective, its certainly a pertinent anecdote to the Gates discussion. So not pointless, by a long shot.

dude, are u writing a paper?

Having trouble reading it?

not at all, but talk like a normal human being for God's sakes... you're not being graded on this sheit

Here's a thought - how about you improve your the content of your posts before critiquing the manner of mine? Trust me, your version of normal is not one that I or anyone else would aspire to approach.

you're hurting my feelings

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
sebstar
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8/15/2009  1:16 PM
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by sebstar:

how is this story analogous to Gates when Nalod, by his own admission, had bad tags and ran a stop sign? The officer was completely justified in pulling over Nalod, while Gates was doing nothing wrong and was simply entering his residence.

Furthermore, this is a question one could pose if we completely divorced ourselves from the long standing history of criminal justice and law enforcement abuse suffered by Blacks. Reminds me of that shirt 'its a Black thing, you wouldnt understand.' Cats like Nalod and others just dont get it.

I don't think anyone has suggested its truly analogous.

What the hell are you talking about? You mentioned Gates, Gates' names has been invoked throughout this thread, and its clear that Nalod was referencing Gates with his "I wasnt trying to solve race relations" comment. The two cases are nothing similar beyond the interracial interaction between an officer and a citizen.

The absurd notion that is the undercurrent of the thread is that Nalod 'showed' Gates how to handle an "abusive cop" when one is the victim of "profiling."

I wish you cats would stop trying to play coy and just come out with what you want to say here. I can see why TMS has been so frustrated with this thread.

[Edited by - sebstar on 08-15-2009 1:19 PM]
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
sebstar
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8/15/2009  1:25 PM
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by codeunknown:

While difficult to draw hard conclusions from this one event, it is definitely useful as a preliminary gauge; the most appropriate initial hypothesis to draw here is that in a police encounter with potential racial bias, respect and demonstration of implicit trust in the motives of the law enforcement agent can gain one significant reprieve, even in a case of actual guilt. The correlate question is that, assuming (tentatively) that standard and reverse racial positions in police encounters have similar dynamics, would Gates have been left without incident had he politely explained himself? The larger questions are does protocol need to better defined to eliminate the subjectivity of police indiscretion, what level of anatagonistic interaction with police should be actionable and what generic profiling criteria are acceptable if statistics indicate safer communities?

Although it may be more difficult to respond with restraint for blacks who are accused (because of a context of injustice) as well as for those who haven't engaged in criminal behavior to begin with, Nalod's story may provide added incentive. From an intervention-results perspective, its certainly a pertinent anecdote to the Gates discussion. So not pointless, by a long shot.

dude, are u writing a paper?

Having trouble reading it?

not at all, but talk like a normal human being for God's sakes... you're not being graded on this sheit

Here's a thought - how about you improve your the content of your posts before critiquing the manner of mine? Trust me, your version of normal is not one that I or anyone else would aspire to approach.

No offense, but your post was needlessly dense...its not fluid to read at all and it comes across as "thesaurus-y" and somebody trying too hard.

As for the actual guts of your post --- well, sigh, guys like you either believe in the constitution or you don't. Cant pick and choose which civil liberties you want to trample on when it suits your purpose.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
codeunknown
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8/15/2009  1:40 PM
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by codeunknown:

While difficult to draw hard conclusions from this one event, it is definitely useful as a preliminary gauge; the most appropriate initial hypothesis to draw here is that in a police encounter with potential racial bias, respect and demonstration of implicit trust in the motives of the law enforcement agent can gain one significant reprieve, even in a case of actual guilt. The correlate question is that, assuming (tentatively) that standard and reverse racial positions in police encounters have similar dynamics, would Gates have been left without incident had he politely explained himself? The larger questions are does protocol need to better defined to eliminate the subjectivity of police indiscretion, what level of anatagonistic interaction with police should be actionable and what generic profiling criteria are acceptable if statistics indicate safer communities?

Although it may be more difficult to respond with restraint for blacks who are accused (because of a context of injustice) as well as for those who haven't engaged in criminal behavior to begin with, Nalod's story may provide added incentive. From an intervention-results perspective, its certainly a pertinent anecdote to the Gates discussion. So not pointless, by a long shot.

dude, are u writing a paper?

Having trouble reading it?

not at all, but talk like a normal human being for God's sakes... you're not being graded on this sheit

Here's a thought - how about you improve your the content of your posts before critiquing the manner of mine? Trust me, your version of normal is not one that I or anyone else would aspire to approach.

No offense, but your post was needlessly dense...its not fluid to read at all and it comes across as "thesaurus-y" and somebody trying too hard.

As for the actual guts of your post --- well, sigh, guys like you either believe in the constitution or you don't. Cant pick and choose which civil liberties you want to trample on when it suits your purpose.

Well, what's brevity to one is dense to another. Can't please everyone and, since I prefer my diction to yours, I'll keep it. Will try to make it easier for you, since you've expressed displeasure, in future posts.

Regarding what I wrote, I think you've done a ridiculously poor job of interpreting it if you've come up with the notion that I'm for a relativistic interpretation of the constitution. All I've done, so far, is make a case that Nalod's story may be useful in looking further at a behaviour-outcome correlation in inter-racial police encounters.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
sebstar
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8/15/2009  1:50 PM
That's not "all you've done"....
what generic profiling criteria are acceptable if statistics indicate safer communities?

So what exactly does that imply?

And again why has Gates' name been used throughout this thread, and even by yourself, when his incident isnt remotely similar to Nalod's story?
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
BasketballJones
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8/15/2009  1:50 PM
Posted by sebstar:

I wish you cats would stop trying to play coy and just come out with what you want to say here. I can see why TMS has been so frustrated with this thread.

I think it's quite clear. The point is that Nalod is awesome and we all need to learn from his example.
https:// It's not so hard.
BasketballJones
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8/15/2009  2:02 PM
I'd like to share my own story of my own awesomeness. Today, while I was driving down the street, I suddenly heard sirens behind me. I saw that there was an ambulance behind me. Thinking quickly, I pulled over, and out of the way. The ambulance was thus able to pass by unimpeded, and continue on its life-saving mission.

Lesson: When an emergency vehicle is coming up behind you, find a place too pull over if it is safe to do so, or otherwise safely get out of the way. I could have gotten angry because doing this would surely delay me, and I could have petulantly refused to get out of the way. But did I? No. I did not. I politely and cooperatively moved aside.
https:// It's not so hard.
codeunknown
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8/15/2009  2:07 PM
Posted by sebstar:

That's not "all you've done"....
what generic profiling criteria are acceptable if statistics indicate safer communities?

So what exactly does that imply?

And again why has Gates' name been used throughout this thread, and even by yourself, when his incident isnt remotely similar to Nalod's story?

You're kidding right? It is all I've done. You quoted me, now offer an interpretation. Its simple - a major task of law enforcement is to establish criteria that enable us to catch criminals without setting precedents that broadly disadvantage innocent people. Asking how to that effectively is a good question. Should a nice car in a bad neighborhood be profiled? Its a good question.

Gates name has been used because he's an example of abrasive behavior in an interracial police encounter of innocence that led to his arrest. Nalod is an example of tempered action in an inter-racial encounter of guilt which led to a warning. Using the two scenarios to look at how best to interact with police is not only legitimate but important, especially given the outcomes which suggest that your attitude may supecede trivial infractions.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
codeunknown
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8/15/2009  2:13 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by codeunknown:

While difficult to draw hard conclusions from this one event, it is definitely useful as a preliminary gauge; the most appropriate initial hypothesis to draw here is that in a police encounter with potential racial bias, respect and demonstration of implicit trust in the motives of the law enforcement agent can gain one significant reprieve, even in a case of actual guilt. The correlate question is that, assuming (tentatively) that standard and reverse racial positions in police encounters have similar dynamics, would Gates have been left without incident had he politely explained himself? The larger questions are does protocol need to better defined to eliminate the subjectivity of police indiscretion, what level of anatagonistic interaction with police should be actionable and what generic profiling criteria are acceptable if statistics indicate safer communities?

Although it may be more difficult to respond with restraint for blacks who are accused (because of a context of injustice) as well as for those who haven't engaged in criminal behavior to begin with, Nalod's story may provide added incentive. From an intervention-results perspective, its certainly a pertinent anecdote to the Gates discussion. So not pointless, by a long shot.

dude, are u writing a paper?

Having trouble reading it?

not at all, but talk like a normal human being for God's sakes... you're not being graded on this sheit

Here's a thought - how about you improve your the content of your posts before critiquing the manner of mine? Trust me, your version of normal is not one that I or anyone else would aspire to approach.

you're hurting my feelings


Are you gonna cry about this too?
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
sebstar
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8/15/2009  2:13 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:

I'd like to share my own story of my own awesomeness. Today, while I was driving down the street, I suddenly heard sirens behind me. I saw that there was an ambulance behind me. Thinking quickly, I pulled over, and out of the way. The ambulance was thus able to pass by unimpeded, and continue on its life-saving mission.

Lesson: When an emergency vehicle is coming up behind you, find a place too pull over if it is safe to do so, or otherwise safely get out of the way. I could have gotten angry because doing this would surely delay me, and I could have petulantly refused to get out of the way. But did I? No. I did not. I politely and cooperatively moved aside.

YEA, YEA, YEA! Five-stars, bro! What a man you are! What a man! You see, if _____ had done exactly what you so fearlessly and courageously did in that story, then that controversy from a few weeks ago wouldnt have happened. Oh, and by the way I'm not comparing those two stories at all...just, oh, uh...nevermind.

Nalod, I'm cool with you but what exactly is the point of this thread???????? If pressed, I have my theories.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
Knicksfan
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8/15/2009  2:16 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:

I'd like to share my own story of my own awesomeness. Today, while I was driving down the street, I suddenly heard sirens behind me. I saw that there was an ambulance behind me. Thinking quickly, I pulled over, and out of the way. The ambulance was thus able to pass by unimpeded, and continue on its life-saving mission.

Lesson: When an emergency vehicle is coming up behind you, find a place too pull over if it is safe to do so, or otherwise safely get out of the way. I could have gotten angry because doing this would surely delay me, and I could have petulantly refused to get out of the way. But did I? No. I did not. I politely and cooperatively moved aside.

You sir are the poster of the week-end!
Knicks_Fan
BasketballJones
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8/15/2009  2:18 PM
Posted by Knicksfan:
Posted by BasketballJones:

I'd like to share my own story of my own awesomeness. Today, while I was driving down the street, I suddenly heard sirens behind me. I saw that there was an ambulance behind me. Thinking quickly, I pulled over, and out of the way. The ambulance was thus able to pass by unimpeded, and continue on its life-saving mission.

Lesson: When an emergency vehicle is coming up behind you, find a place too pull over if it is safe to do so, or otherwise safely get out of the way. I could have gotten angry because doing this would surely delay me, and I could have petulantly refused to get out of the way. But did I? No. I did not. I politely and cooperatively moved aside.

You sir are the poster of the week-end!

Just of the weekend?
https:// It's not so hard.
sidsanders
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8/15/2009  2:21 PM
ive had 2 incidents of profiling several yrs back. delaware st police, white lady cop. saw the cop ahead on the side of the road, i wasnt doing anything wrong so i kept going. next thing i know, im pulled over for "following too close". nonsense.

during this encounter (i am a minority, ny plates) i had to show 2 drivers lics, registration, insurance, college id, 2 business cards, and a computer cert card. i had to show so much info because she saw laptop parts in my back seat. she said U of D had some laptop thefts, and i said, never been there, dont know where the campus is (all true). thats when i had to break out the biz cards/college id/computer cert card since i work in tech. she still wanted to search my car, and i let her (though i had no legal reason to). found nothing. she let me go. i was nice the whole time. still, i was MAD. i understand cops need to protect themselves... i came away thinking, if i didnt have the doc i keep with me, i would have been arrested.

incedent 2: montgomery county police (MD), black male cop. driving in silver spring, go through a green light saw a cop at the intersection, kept going since i wasnt doing anything wrong. next thing i know, im being pulled over, ran a red light he says. nonsense. he takes my info. has me wait 30 mins before coming back to me and talking to me like i must be lost. lets me go with no ticket/warning. this one wasnt as bad as the del st police, though.

in both cases i was nice, cops were not awful, though the black cop was kind of a punk the way he talked to me and had me waiting so long. i didnt react poorly, though i sure would have liked to. i do understand gates anger though...
GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
BasketballJones
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8/15/2009  2:23 PM
I have many more such stories. It seems like I'm always doing awesome things that other people could learn from. Why, just the other day, I had just finished an ice-cream bar, and was carrying the soggy wrapper around. I could not find a garbage can anywhere. My hands were getting all sticky. I could have furtively tossed that wrapper on the ground, but I didn't. I patiently continued searching until I found an appropriate trash can and deposited the item in said can.

Lesson: When you have garbage, throw it in a trash can. Don't throw it on the ground, because that would be littering.

And littering is wrong.


[Edited by - basketballjones on 08-15-2009 14:25]
https:// It's not so hard.
BasketballJones
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8/15/2009  2:29 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by Knicksfan:
Posted by BasketballJones:

I'd like to share my own story of my own awesomeness. Today, while I was driving down the street, I suddenly heard sirens behind me. I saw that there was an ambulance behind me. Thinking quickly, I pulled over, and out of the way. The ambulance was thus able to pass by unimpeded, and continue on its life-saving mission.

Lesson: When an emergency vehicle is coming up behind you, find a place too pull over if it is safe to do so, or otherwise safely get out of the way. I could have gotten angry because doing this would surely delay me, and I could have petulantly refused to get out of the way. But did I? No. I did not. I politely and cooperatively moved aside.

You sir are the poster of the week-end!

Just of the weekend?

Now that I think about it, there aren't that many posts this weekend, so this isn't saying much, is it.
https:// It's not so hard.
sidsanders
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8/15/2009  2:30 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:

I have many more such stories. It seems like I'm always doing awesome things that other people could learn from. Why, just the other day, I had just finished an ice-cream bar, and was carrying the soggy wrapper around. I could not find a garbage can anywhere. My hands were getting all sticky. I could have furtively tossed that wrapper on the ground, but I didn't. I patiently continued searching until I found an appropriate trash can and deposited the item in said can.

Lesson: When you have garbage, throw it in a trash can. Don't throw it on the ground, because that would be littering.

And littering is wrong.


[Edited by - basketballjones on 08-15-2009 14:25]

for real!! like most minority folks dont already know they need to act right with any police interaction... they woulda busted you if you littered and made you go around parks picking up trash.

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
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