Posted by ramtour420:

I think this is not even an example of 2010 cap vs. getting better now. The 1 mil or whatever the silly amount is thatspreventing us from getting him is nothing comparing to what he is gonna bring to the table and how much the team will improve. Having him on the team should make a difference in the W/L to where we are much more attractive to FA. If he goes to the top of NBA in assists in whats basicly his 2nd year thats HUGE ! Or if we make the playoffs that would be much more important since we would have better chance to get rid of curry/JJ and look more attractive to FA. I have to agree with BRIGGS and disagree with the whole "why noone else wants him" arguement.

Posted by JohnWallace44:

Walsh's handling of this franchise from everything past the Crawford/Zach trades has been an utter embarrassment.

- Failure to move Jeffries at the deadline
- Hughes trade
- Team didn't tank games
- Hill pick over Jennings, Holiday, Derozan etc.
- Clogged the Summer League roster with players who had interests other than the Knicks success
- Alienating Lee and Nate
- Failure to move assets to clear Jeffries, and/or bring in talent
- Allowed Hill and Kidd to embarrass the franchise for more leverage
- Sessions debacle
- Failure to find a two guard/balance the roster

His best points (post Craw/Zach) to me have been buying the pick for Douglas and trading for Darko

Ok, lets take it from the top(i'll leave Jeffries alone until end)

- Hughes trade(who did we trade to get him? was he less of an embarrassment? doesn't Huges have an expiring deal?)
- Team didn't tank games(And you feel we should be embarrassed because of that?)
- Hill pick over Jennings, Holiday, Derozan etc.(Isn't it a good idea not to label lotto picks as embarrassments b4 they do ANYTHING in the NBA?)
- Clogged the Summer League roster with players who had interests other than the Knicks success(I'd think players that do that embarrass themselves more than anything, besides isn't summer league there to look at players and determine those type of things?)
- Alienating Lee and Nate(if by "alienating" you mean not giving them the $ that they clearly don't deserve or putting the Knicks in a position to make the best move $wise, well i don't see how thats embarrassing)
- Failure to move assets to clear Jeffries, and/or bring in talent(i'll leave Jeffries alone until end)
- Allowed Hill and Kidd to embarrass the franchise for more leverage(Yes, Kidd is a douchebag no question about it, Hill is a good guy and likely made the right decision- but talking to free agents is what you do when you are building a team, no? I don't think we were any more embarrassed than b4, by those guys not signing with us, besides i thought the "talking to the Knicks to get more $ from the other team" is a commonplace practice in the NBA?)
- Sessions debacle(yes, i agree with you here, but the fat lady hasn't sung yet and we may still get him)
- Failure to find a two guard/balance the roster(Hardly embarrassing, its not like walsh can just pull our future starting SG out of his ass)
- Failure to move Jeffries at the deadline(This so far looks like the only definite mistake that DW made, if that was the scenario anyway)

Posted by JohnWallace44:

Posted by ramtour420:

Posted by JohnWallace44:

Walsh's handling of this franchise from everything past the Crawford/Zach trades has been an utter embarrassment.

- Failure to move Jeffries at the deadline
- Hughes trade
- Team didn't tank games
- Hill pick over Jennings, Holiday, Derozan etc.
- Clogged the Summer League roster with players who had interests other than the Knicks success
- Alienating Lee and Nate
- Failure to move assets to clear Jeffries, and/or bring in talent
- Allowed Hill and Kidd to embarrass the franchise for more leverage
- Sessions debacle
- Failure to find a two guard/balance the roster

His best points (post Craw/Zach) to me have been buying the pick for Douglas and trading for Darko

Ok, lets take it from the top(i'll leave Jeffries alone until end)

- Hughes trade(who did we trade to get him? was he less of an embarrassment? doesn't Huges have an expiring deal?)
- Team didn't tank games(And you feel we should be embarrassed because of that?)
- Hill pick over Jennings, Holiday, Derozan etc.(Isn't it a good idea not to label lotto picks as embarrassments b4 they do ANYTHING in the NBA?)
- Clogged the Summer League roster with players who had interests other than the Knicks success(I'd think players that do that embarrass themselves more than anything, besides isn't summer league there to look at players and determine those type of things?)
- Alienating Lee and Nate(if by "alienating" you mean not giving them the $ that they clearly don't deserve or putting the Knicks in a position to make the best move $wise, well i don't see how thats embarrassing)
- Failure to move assets to clear Jeffries, and/or bring in talent(i'll leave Jeffries alone until end)
- Allowed Hill and Kidd to embarrass the franchise for more leverage(Yes, Kidd is a douchebag no question about it, Hill is a good guy and likely made the right decision- but talking to free agents is what you do when you are building a team, no? I don't think we were any more embarrassed than b4, by those guys not signing with us, besides i thought the "talking to the Knicks to get more $ from the other team" is a commonplace practice in the NBA?)
- Sessions debacle(yes, i agree with you here, but the fat lady hasn't sung yet and we may still get him)
- Failure to find a two guard/balance the roster(Hardly embarrassing, its not like walsh can just pull our future starting SG out of his ass)
- Failure to move Jeffries at the deadline(This so far looks like the only definite mistake that DW made, if that was the scenario anyway)

The Hughes trade thew off the team for the games that would have made the difference if we really wanted to make the playoffs. He has admitted as much since.

Lee and Nate don't have to be pushed to the side - the two of them, Ariza and Balkman put it on the floor every night no matter what. You don't just toss players to the side when they play like that for the franchise. At least honor their effort.

Hill is not a bust (yet), but where does he fit? We have glaring needs, and we picked up a power forward who we want to ultimately play at center, but he seems not to be ready at all. This goes back to the Summer League mess, we don't know what Hill can do really because it was such a fiasco.

Watch what Miami is doing. They will end up in position to have absolutely nothing on the roster when 2010 comes around, and will be able to Max out Wade, another Max player and have plenty left over... oh and there's no state income tax in Florida... and that whole South Beach thing.

The Jeffries non-maneuver very much comes into play given what Miami is doing. There are only a few big time players left in the 2010 FA class and Miami looks to be the landing spot.

If that's the case then I'll buy Donnie a train ticket in the first sleeper car to head out of Penn Station.

I just thought the word choice was poor and embarrassing isn't the best way to describe it. Yes , we have income tax and yes couple of things MAYBE could have been done better. In other words Walsh in not perfect. Embarrassing? i think not.

Posted by BRIGGS:

Way way way to conservative if Im reading the truth. If they are worried about a cap drop--they still have the space for a max contract even if we sign Sessions to a 5-6mm$ deal. If they offer just a tad less==lets say 27.5mm over 5--thats 5.5mm per year. --if we add what we have to the cap==32.5mm--that is without the possibility of dumping and or buying out contracts. This a ridiculous excuse. Offer the guy 27.5mm over 5 years with a third year player option--I would think that can get a deal done. The guy locks in 27.5mm with an option to opt out after 3--that is a fair deal and a deal that will NOT have any material effect on max contract space. There has to be a plan in plac ejust in case Lebron doesnt want to come here and stinking all year wont help. Its quality money spent. Sessions is a PG who can get into the lane and help our bigs get easy baskets. He can bring the value of guys like Curry and Jefferies up. My plea is get this deal done 1mm here or there isnt going to do anything to our ability to sign Lebron James and the small% chance he wants to come here. IF we were a Winning team it might be much more enticing. I think Sessions can help us get to 45 wins and make this a much more desirable location. One player who can help make guys better can make a huge difference in the nBA--watch what happens to Philly without Miller.

		2009	2010
Hughes		13.7	
Mobley		9.5	
Darko		7.5	
Harrington	10	
Curry		10.5	11.3
Jefferies	6.5	6.8
Gallo		3	3.3
Chandler	1.3	2.1
Hill		2.5	2.7
Douglas		1	1
Duhon		6	
Nate		
Lee		7
LeBron		17
Sessions	5	6
-----------------------------------		
		76.5	57.2

Posted by BRIGGS:

Way way way to conservative if Im reading the truth. If they are worried about a cap drop--they still have the space for a max contract even if we sign Sessions to a 5-6mm$ deal. If they offer just a tad less==lets say 27.5mm over 5--thats 5.5mm per year. --if we add what we have to the cap==32.5mm--that is without the possibility of dumping and or buying out contracts. This a ridiculous excuse. Offer the guy 27.5mm over 5 years with a third year player option--I would think that can get a deal done. The guy locks in 27.5mm with an option to opt out after 3--that is a fair deal and a deal that will NOT have any material effect on max contract space. There has to be a plan in plac ejust in case Lebron doesnt want to come here and stinking all year wont help. Its quality money spent. Sessions is a PG who can get into the lane and help our bigs get easy baskets. He can bring the value of guys like Curry and Jefferies up. My plea is get this deal done 1mm here or there isnt going to do anything to our ability to sign Lebron James and the small% chance he wants to come here. IF we were a Winning team it might be much more enticing. I think Sessions can help us get to 45 wins and make this a much more desirable location. One player who can help make guys better can make a huge difference in the nBA--watch what happens to Philly without Miller.

Posted by SupremeCommander:

Posted by orangeblobman:

Posted by SupremeCommander:

If this team can't get a player better than Ramon Session, we're all ****ed

Personally I am hoping another team swoops in and overpays. Signing Ramon Sessions to a long term deal is like bringing a peanut butter and jelly sandwich to a steak and lobster banquet

Sessions looks to be a future near-star player, man. But I admit I'm just going by his statistics. Still, he's not bad at all, and he's the best available this off-season. I would rather we long-term Sessions than sign a dinosaur like G. Hill, J. Kidd, or J. Stackhouse-- then we would be really f'ed.

He can't shoot, defend. Granted, he can dribble and pass. What I'm going on is Scott Skiles would have him ride pine after his statistical outbursts. Yes, the Bucks are trying to save $$$ but if they thought Sessions was worth a damn they could have easily resigned him, drafted a guy like Tyler Hansborough and dumped Andrew Bogut for the same price as the Richard Jefferson special. The Milwaukee Bucks castoffs don't get me too excited

Posted by Cosmic:

Posted by SupremeCommander:

Posted by orangeblobman:

Posted by SupremeCommander:

If this team can't get a player better than Ramon Session, we're all ****ed

Personally I am hoping another team swoops in and overpays. Signing Ramon Sessions to a long term deal is like bringing a peanut butter and jelly sandwich to a steak and lobster banquet

Sessions looks to be a future near-star player, man. But I admit I'm just going by his statistics. Still, he's not bad at all, and he's the best available this off-season. I would rather we long-term Sessions than sign a dinosaur like G. Hill, J. Kidd, or J. Stackhouse-- then we would be really f'ed.

He can't shoot, defend. Granted, he can dribble and pass. What I'm going on is Scott Skiles would have him ride pine after his statistical outbursts. Yes, the Bucks are trying to save $$$ but if they thought Sessions was worth a damn they could have easily resigned him, drafted a guy like Tyler Hansborough and dumped Andrew Bogut for the same price as the Richard Jefferson special. The Milwaukee Bucks castoffs don't get me too excited

Me neither. Sure are a lot of red flags regarding Sessions. Not to mention we obviously aren't that hot for him either. Sure seems to be sitting a long time on the back burner now.

I'd rather let Duhon resume his role and see what Douglas has to offer and retain Nate in a stop gap role if needed.