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Nate getting ready to talk to Knicks
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Nalod
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8/6/2009  2:40 PM
Posted by Cosmic:

"Bout to have a sit down wit my agents and talk about my future with the knicks hope its good keep ur fingers crossed twitter fans pause 40 minutes ago from UberTwitter

Nate gonna bring his crayons and coloring book incase he gets figitty?


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McK1
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8/6/2009  3:21 PM
Posted by Knicksfan:

Exactly, Martin. Nate is a great 6th man/spark off the bench, but as a leader and distributor? Not a chance. He can make good passes, but that doesn't make him a point guard, much less the formidable leader of this group.

the same can and has (by bucks fans) been said about Sessions
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
rvwink
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8/6/2009  3:56 PM
"my thoughts are this. If we can get both, cool. However, if I had to choose between the two, I'd take Nate. His talent and fearlessness, to me, is something that can lead a team through a playoff run.

It's not ideal to not have him on the team."

D'Antoni has a an offense he wants his team to use. That offense works well, when the team's players obey the guidelines. One of the rules is to keep the ball moving and not allow a single player to dominate the ball by himself. When one player ignores D'Antoni's guidance, other players will do the same. D'Antoni needs to find players who fit the guidelines and who also have talent. Nate's way of playing may please you, but it takes the Knicks offence in the wrong direction.

The key issue is not who you would chose, the issue is who D'Antoni thinks will fit in his offense. Both Nate and AI should definitely not be on the Knicks this year. People who think otherwise are not focused on what D'Antoni is trying to achieve in the offense the team is using.
Knicksfan
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8/6/2009  3:56 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Knicksfan:

Exactly, Martin. Nate is a great 6th man/spark off the bench, but as a leader and distributor? Not a chance. He can make good passes, but that doesn't make him a point guard, much less the formidable leader of this group.

the same can and has (by bucks fans) been said about Sessions

Enough said
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McK1
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8/6/2009  4:32 PM
Posted by Knicksfan:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Knicksfan:

Exactly, Martin. Nate is a great 6th man/spark off the bench, but as a leader and distributor? Not a chance. He can make good passes, but that doesn't make him a point guard, much less the formidable leader of this group.

the same can and has (by bucks fans) been said about Sessions

Enough said

yeah we probably shouldn't take into the account the opinions of people who have actually seen him play a ton of games

[Edited by - McK1 on 08-06-2009 4:32 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
crzymdups
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8/6/2009  4:43 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Knicksfan:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Knicksfan:

Exactly, Martin. Nate is a great 6th man/spark off the bench, but as a leader and distributor? Not a chance. He can make good passes, but that doesn't make him a point guard, much less the formidable leader of this group.

the same can and has (by bucks fans) been said about Sessions

Enough said

yeah we probably shouldn't take into the account the opinions of people who have actually seen him play a ton of games

[Edited by - McK1 on 08-06-2009 4:32 PM]

there are just as many bucks fans who favorably compare Sessions to Derrick Rose - the truth is probably somewhere in between.

this from a bucks fan on realgm:

"Per 36 min last season:

DRose: 16pt 6ast 4rbd 48fg% 79ft% 22% from 3
Sessions: 16pt 7.5ast 4.5rbd 45fg% 79ft% 18% from 3"


Sessions is just a better fit for this offense than Nate. i don't know anything about Session's personality, but it seems the knicks feel that nate is not a fit here personality-wise.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 08-06-2009 4:44 PM]
¿ △ ?
McK1
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8/6/2009  5:02 PM
I understand the premise behind per 48 min stats cuz noone averages playing the entire game. but a per 36 minute stat? how do you interpret this info? if he was actually good enough to leave out on the floor for 36mpg this is what you'd get?

how do you devise that anyway? do you take his regular time on the floor per which was 27:30 then go thru every game log and and see what kind of numbers he produced in those first 8:30 minutes of the next game and then compute?

for a guy like rose who averaged 37 minutes per game do you go back through the game logs and find out his statline once he reached 36 minutes, cut it off there, then tack on that last minute to the next game? each time you do this one more minute of actual game data is loss.

If I'm barking up the wrong tree let me know and please explain it to me exactly how you manifest and interpret per if you play 3/4 of a game data (which most starters do)?







[Edited by - McK1 on 08-06-2009 5:02 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
crzymdups
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8/6/2009  5:06 PM
Posted by McK1:

I understand the premise behind per 48 min stats cuz noone averages playing the entire game. but a per 36 minute stat? how do you interpret this info? if he was actually good enough to leave out on the floor for 36mpg this is what you'd get?

how do you devise that anyway? do you take his regular time on the floor per which was 27:30 then go thru every game log and and see what kind of numbers he produced in those first 8:30 minutes and then compute?

for a guy like rose who averaged 37 minutes per game do you go back through the game logs and find out his statline once he reached 36 minutes, cut it off there, then tack on that last minute to the next game's first 35. each time you do this one more minute of actual game data is loss.

If I'm barking up the wrong tree let me know and please explain it to me exactly how you manifest and interpret per if you play 3/4 of a game data (which most starters do)?

you'll notice the quotes around that info - i didn't do those stats, a bucks poster did. but to answer your question, you'd take the players per/48 stats and multiply by .75 and you get per/36 stats. it's a way of looking at per minute production and looking at a player's production per minute. i think it's somewhat useful.

you could just as easily say that as a starter Sessions averaged 15ppg and 7apg while Rose averaged 16ppg and 7apg. whatever.

while i dont totally hold stock in that, it was meant to add to my point that while some bucks fans may not believe in Sessions, some Bucks fans are crazy about him and think he's better than Jennings. there's a 130pg thread about him on their realgm board.
¿ △ ?
McK1
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8/6/2009  5:30 PM
i've read a majority of the thread. multiplying a guys per 48 by .75 is a highly inaccurate way to compute what a guy would do game to game given the minutes.

as for starting pg stats, nate's numbers as starting pg is better overall than both these guys.

IMO for anybody who has control of the ball evaluating how his physical and mental attributes affect how a team has to defend their basket is a truer measure of value.

Rose's size speed strength and explosiveness are elite for the pg position. Sessions is 2 weight classes below. Nate 1.

Sessions rates out a little better as a passer than rose and much better as a passer than Nate but so does Duhon...








[Edited by - McK1 on 08-06-2009 5:31 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
martin
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8/6/2009  9:47 PM
Posted by McK1:

i've read a majority of the thread. multiplying a guys per 48 by .75 is a highly inaccurate way to compute what a guy would do game to game given the minutes.

it's not an accurate way to compute what a guy would do game to game, but it is a better way to compare averages for 2 players who play different amounts of time. There are obvious caveats, like comparing a first line starter who consistently demands double teams on a playoff contending team to a player who comes off the bench of significantly less time.

Like that.
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Cosmic
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8/6/2009  10:11 PM
I think what people used to do was take a 15mpg scrub, extrapolate to 48 minutes, and try to determine what value he was. Problem was with these guys you'd end up with 11 fouls or 17 turnovers per game.

What some brought up was nobody really plays 48 per game so they started the 40mpg comparison and then the 36mpg is the new standard because your average starter plays about that.

Thing is, unless you're really young, there's a reason you're only playing 20mpg off the bench: You stink. Your 20mpg numbers will never match your extrapolated 36mpg numbers. So what's the point. Besides, you're now playing against starters and not backups so you will take a hit there as well.

It's a pointless idea.

...as to the recent tone of this thread you don't compare Nate to Sessions. You compare Sessions to Duhon when trying to make a decision. Nate has nothing to do with Sessions. Duhon does.

In that, simply put.

Sessions is quicker and more creative.
Duhon is a better defender and a better shooter.

So how much are we gaining here? Not enough for me to lock up Sessions for five years I can tell you that much.

There are reasons why only the Knicks, Clippers, and Bucks care about him. In fact, the Clippers don't seem to care anymore and the Bucks are just waiting to see if the Knicks overpay for him or not. The Knicks are waiting to try to dump Jeffries before they even bother.

Does this all really add up to a must have player? A guy you pencil in as the starting PG, wipe your hands, and muse you're done with the PG position for the future?

I don't think so.

If this is all that's to be had you retain Lee and Nate for one more year and worry about it all next season and let Sessions go sign for 3M back in MIL.

We don't need another Jared Jeffries!
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Nate getting ready to talk to Knicks

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