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Why not Allen Iverson?
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Cosmic
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7/29/2009  12:29 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Cosmic:

IVERSON!? REALLY?

Good lord what is wrong with some of you!

We want to watch this CLOWN go 13-35 nightly while Chandler and Douglas and Nate sit on the bench with towels on their heads? Really?

Anyone REALLY thinks IVERSON is going to add wins to this team? You know, enough so you Utah Jazz 2010 Knicks 1st Round Pick enthusiasts will be pacified?

Not a chance....

I've always wondered what would happen if a team was assembled:

Camby
Rodman
Sheed
Sprewell
Iverson

How would they fair? It wouldn't be boring I suppose.

I don't know why Iverson gets roped in with some of those names? Tattoos? He's never been involved in stuff as bad as say, Jamaal Tinsley. He doesn't go out drinking and partying as much as Chris Duhon.

You know who went 13-35 a lot last year? Al Harrington. I'd rather have Iverson be that guy for our team than Harrington. This team needs a guy who can take the big shot at the end of games right now. Gallo isn't ready, Chandler will never be that guy, Nate has not shown he can be that guy, the idea that Lee can do it is laughable. Harrington hangs on rims. Iverson is that guy. He can take a shot and make it in the last two minutes against anyone in the league. Still.

We have no one, repeat NO ONE who can do that.

Take the big shot at the end of games we're down 27 in?

Come'on. Iverson? Really?

Dude is a disaster and has been since he left Philly. He is an arrogant jackass, he breaks every possible play drawn up, and is a bricklaying joke out there.

What on earth is such a player going to do for a rebuilding team? Bring back Isiah-like controversy? He sure isn't winning us, or anyone for that matter, any games!

Dear god no. We hired Walsh to purge the idiocy from this team, and thus far he's done well. Now we want Iverson?

And, there's a reason I lumped him in with those names - they're all peas in a pod.

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crzymdups
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7/29/2009  12:32 PM
"dude is a bricklaying joke out there"

27 points per game 46% from the field.
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GKFv2
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7/29/2009  12:34 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

no, i guess you guys are right - it's crazy to sign allen iverson.

better to sign jamaal tinsley as our savior and hope he doesn't find a nightclub or a gun in new york city.

Knicks don't have a savior and there isn't one out there, especially Iverson.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
fishmike
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7/29/2009  12:37 PM
we said that about Zach last year. Team needs always change, as do markets. Right now its a dead market (obviously). Curry is 26 and with the exception of last year has had productive seasons. If he's able to get on the court a 26 year old 7 footer who scores at 55% will have value to *someone*

I think JJ is the guy you will have to eat. Another present from Isiah

Hey... right now some jackass on a message board for some team is startin a thread about Curry. "Hey... he's 26, shoots 55% and only has 2 years left on his deal. Maybe we should take a look."

It seems outlandish to us because we hate Curry and are sick of him and all things Isiah brought in not named Wilson Chandler.

Detroit needs size. Houston needs size... Curry doesnt need to show up looking like Vin Diesel. He's always had a wide ass, but he's huge and he can score and his body is young enough to bounce back nicely if he sticks on this strength program.
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fishmike
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7/29/2009  12:42 PM
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by crzymdups:

no, i guess you guys are right - it's crazy to sign allen iverson.

better to sign jamaal tinsley as our savior and hope he doesn't find a nightclub or a gun in new york city.

Knicks don't have a savior and there isn't one out there, especially Iverson.
maybe an oversimplification but I think you nailed. In the past the Knicks would always have made a bad move or a terrible move rather than no move. They have always felt obligated to "try something."

I think with DW that changes.

They couldnt just end the Ewing era. They had to *do* something. Even if it made ZERO sense like trading for Glen Rice when they had Houston and Sprewell playing 40 minutes a night. When that didnt work they had to *do* something because thats the guy they traded for Ewing.

The Knicks had needs (obviously).

But here's a thought.

Rather than make a wrong move lets make no move at all.

Maybe things change and we get lucky and we get a taker for Curry and Douglas is a good player. Maybe we dont but we dont go backwards either.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
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7/29/2009  12:43 PM
Posted by fishmike:

we said that about Zach last year. Team needs always change, as do markets. Right now its a dead market (obviously). Curry is 26 and with the exception of last year has had productive seasons. If he's able to get on the court a 26 year old 7 footer who scores at 55% will have value to *someone*

I think JJ is the guy you will have to eat. Another present from Isiah

Hey... right now some jackass on a message board for some team is startin a thread about Curry. "Hey... he's 26, shoots 55% and only has 2 years left on his deal. Maybe we should take a look."

It seems outlandish to us because we hate Curry and are sick of him and all things Isiah brought in not named Wilson Chandler.

Detroit needs size. Houston needs size... Curry doesnt need to show up looking like Vin Diesel. He's always had a wide ass, but he's huge and he can score and his body is young enough to bounce back nicely if he sticks on this strength program.

Nobody is saying that about Curry on any message board - the problem with being in New York is that there is no mystery to our players - their flaws are exposed under the bright lights. Curry is a league wide joke. The difference with ZBO and Craw is that they can at least put up stats in this league. Curry can't do that anymore until proven otherwise.


You know who can put up stats in this league and would probably look pretty good in a wide open offense? Iverson.

Jefferies we have to eat. Curry we have to eat. The plan may have to be one FA in 2010 and another in 2011. This is the reality. And if that's the reality, wouldn't it be good to have Iverson on board next season to help the one max guy until max guy two shows up?

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crzymdups
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7/29/2009  12:44 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by crzymdups:

no, i guess you guys are right - it's crazy to sign allen iverson.

better to sign jamaal tinsley as our savior and hope he doesn't find a nightclub or a gun in new york city.

Knicks don't have a savior and there isn't one out there, especially Iverson.
maybe an oversimplification but I think you nailed. In the past the Knicks would always have made a bad move or a terrible move rather than no move. They have always felt obligated to "try something."

I think with DW that changes.

They couldnt just end the Ewing era. They had to *do* something. Even if it made ZERO sense like trading for Glen Rice when they had Houston and Sprewell playing 40 minutes a night. When that didnt work they had to *do* something because thats the guy they traded for Ewing.

The Knicks had needs (obviously).

But here's a thought.

Rather than make a wrong move lets make no move at all.

Maybe things change and we get lucky and we get a taker for Curry and Douglas is a good player. Maybe we dont but we dont go backwards either.

i agree with what you are saying. but signing iverson for a year is not digging a hole. he stinks or acts up? you banish him.

signing sessions to a 5yr full MLE? that might be digging a hole.
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jimimou
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7/29/2009  12:47 PM
while i've loved iverson for a long time, i believe if walsh were to sign him, even for a year, that adds 'confusion' to the 2010 plan (whatever that is at this point) and also sends a bad message to the youngens they are trying to develop. point being, signing iverson doesnt give you anything in terms of 'getting over the hump' - its not like the knicks are san antonio and need to tweak a position or two to get to the finals. the finals are a long way off for ny and we all know this year is about making smart moves and clearing the roster of the rest of zeek's baggage.

so, i see no point other than selling tickets, which iverson wld do. he wld also replace nate (if he stays here) as the fan favorite. thinking about it this way leads me to believe if signed, maybe the 'iverson idea is more about marketing than bball???

[Edited by - jimimou on 07-29-2009 12:49 PM]
BasketballJones
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7/29/2009  12:50 PM
Posted by jimimou:

while i've loved iverson for a long time, i believe if walsh were to sign him, even for a year, that adds 'confusion' to the 2010 plan (whatever that is at this point) and also sends a bad message to the youngens they are trying to develop. point being, signing iverson doesnt give you anything in terms of 'getting over the hump' - its ot like the knicks are san antonio and need to tweak a position or two to get to the finals. the finals are a long way off for ny and we all know this year is about making smart moves and clearing the roster of the rest of zeek's baggage.

so, i see no point other than selling tickets, which iverson wld do. he wld also replace nate (if he stays here) as the fan favorite. thinking about it this way leads me to believe if signed, maybe the 'plan' is more about marketing than bball???

I'm not particularly in favor of signing Iverson, but I think the Knicks need to do a little more this year than tread water. They need to create a bit of interest. After all, Utah has our pick next year. There's not much to be gained by tanking. Why not do something to put a few butts in the seats? It would be nice if the move also provided some veteran "leadership", or at any rate, transmission of professionalism to the youngsters. I would be in favor of that. Not sure if Iverson really brings that.

[Edited by - basketballjones on 07-29-2009 12:51]
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SupremeCommander
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7/29/2009  1:09 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by jimimou:

while i've loved iverson for a long time, i believe if walsh were to sign him, even for a year, that adds 'confusion' to the 2010 plan (whatever that is at this point) and also sends a bad message to the youngens they are trying to develop. point being, signing iverson doesnt give you anything in terms of 'getting over the hump' - its ot like the knicks are san antonio and need to tweak a position or two to get to the finals. the finals are a long way off for ny and we all know this year is about making smart moves and clearing the roster of the rest of zeek's baggage.

so, i see no point other than selling tickets, which iverson wld do. he wld also replace nate (if he stays here) as the fan favorite. thinking about it this way leads me to believe if signed, maybe the 'plan' is more about marketing than bball???

I'm not particularly in favor of signing Iverson, but I think the Knicks need to do a little more this year than tread water. They need to create a bit of interest. After all, Utah has our pick next year. There's not much to be gained by tanking. Why not do something to put a few butts in the seats? It would be nice if the move also provided some veteran "leadership", or at any rate, transmission of professionalism to the youngsters. I would be in favor of that. Not sure if Iverson really brings that.

[Edited by - basketballjones on 07-29-2009 12:51]

Third and fourth tier free agents aren't signing in New York. Unless there's a reason to watch the Knicks players are just going to do more of the same and use New York to drive up their demand and sign elsewhere. I don't know, I'd rather see

AI/Duhon
Hughes
Chandler
Harrington
(Lee?)Jeffries

than

Duhon/Douglas
Chandler
Gallo
Harrington
Hill

and have Douglas/Gallo/Hill earn their starter's minutes
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fishmike
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7/29/2009  1:11 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

The plan may have to be one FA in 2010 and another in 2011. This is the reality. And if that's the reality, wouldn't it be good to have Iverson on board next season to help the one max guy until max guy two shows up?
when has Iverson ever played with or attracted another star player? The only other star he played with was Melo and that was a disaster. AI has always been a one man show with role players. I dont want to watch the experiment of learning whether or not he can be a team guy at 34. No interest. If we want a FA to come here we need to play close to .500 ball and develop our young guys.

If anything I would target Hinrich.
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jimimou
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7/29/2009  1:23 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by jimimou:

while i've loved iverson for a long time, i believe if walsh were to sign him, even for a year, that adds 'confusion' to the 2010 plan (whatever that is at this point) and also sends a bad message to the youngens they are trying to develop. point being, signing iverson doesnt give you anything in terms of 'getting over the hump' - its ot like the knicks are san antonio and need to tweak a position or two to get to the finals. the finals are a long way off for ny and we all know this year is about making smart moves and clearing the roster of the rest of zeek's baggage.

so, i see no point other than selling tickets, which iverson wld do. he wld also replace nate (if he stays here) as the fan favorite. thinking about it this way leads me to believe if signed, maybe the 'plan' is more about marketing than bball???

I'm not particularly in favor of signing Iverson, but I think the Knicks need to do a little more this year than tread water. They need to create a bit of interest. After all, Utah has our pick next year. There's not much to be gained by tanking. Why not do something to put a few butts in the seats? It would be nice if the move also provided some veteran "leadership", or at any rate, transmission of professionalism to the youngsters. I would be in favor of that. Not sure if Iverson really brings that.

[Edited by - basketballjones on 07-29-2009 12:51]

i agree they need to do more than tread water, just dont think they CAN do that with thier personnel make-up right now. if that is indeed the plan, sign iverson and put butts in the seats, then i'm all for it. but lets' not disguise an iverson signing (and not saying you are trying to bbj) as part of the future plans for the bball side of the organization. he is not a good influence to the younger players on the team and could be counterproductive to the development of the younger guys. i think he wld give dantoni ulcers to be honest.
crzymdups
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7/29/2009  3:05 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by crzymdups:

The plan may have to be one FA in 2010 and another in 2011. This is the reality. And if that's the reality, wouldn't it be good to have Iverson on board next season to help the one max guy until max guy two shows up?
when has Iverson ever played with or attracted another star player? The only other star he played with was Melo and that was a disaster. AI has always been a one man show with role players. I dont want to watch the experiment of learning whether or not he can be a team guy at 34. No interest. If we want a FA to come here we need to play close to .500 ball and develop our young guys.

If anything I would target Hinrich.

I'd rather Sessions than Hinrich, really. Hinrich? Gross. I know he has the Steve Nash hair, but what else has he ever done to imply he could play in D'Antoni's system. Chicago's offense was always a mess when he ran it.
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fishmike
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7/29/2009  3:35 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by crzymdups:

The plan may have to be one FA in 2010 and another in 2011. This is the reality. And if that's the reality, wouldn't it be good to have Iverson on board next season to help the one max guy until max guy two shows up?
when has Iverson ever played with or attracted another star player? The only other star he played with was Melo and that was a disaster. AI has always been a one man show with role players. I dont want to watch the experiment of learning whether or not he can be a team guy at 34. No interest. If we want a FA to come here we need to play close to .500 ball and develop our young guys.

If anything I would target Hinrich.

I'd rather Sessions than Hinrich, really. Hinrich? Gross. I know he has the Steve Nash hair, but what else has he ever done to imply he could play in D'Antoni's system. Chicago's offense was always a mess when he ran it.
what offense? Look at the players they have had since he's been there. Its almost amazing he's gotten 6 assists.

He's got a good shot and midrange game. Great passer. Not an above the rim guy but one of the league's best defenders. Good contract and 28 years old. Plays his ass off every night. He's got twice the talent Duhon has and Chris looked pretty good running MDA's offense

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crzymdups
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7/29/2009  3:44 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by crzymdups:

The plan may have to be one FA in 2010 and another in 2011. This is the reality. And if that's the reality, wouldn't it be good to have Iverson on board next season to help the one max guy until max guy two shows up?
when has Iverson ever played with or attracted another star player? The only other star he played with was Melo and that was a disaster. AI has always been a one man show with role players. I dont want to watch the experiment of learning whether or not he can be a team guy at 34. No interest. If we want a FA to come here we need to play close to .500 ball and develop our young guys.

If anything I would target Hinrich.

I'd rather Sessions than Hinrich, really. Hinrich? Gross. I know he has the Steve Nash hair, but what else has he ever done to imply he could play in D'Antoni's system. Chicago's offense was always a mess when he ran it.
what offense? Look at the players they have had since he's been there. Its almost amazing he's gotten 6 assists.

He's got a good shot and midrange game. Great passer. Not an above the rim guy but one of the league's best defenders. Good contract and 28 years old. Plays his ass off every night. He's got twice the talent Duhon has and Chris looked pretty good running MDA's offense

i'd rather have raymond felton. i dunno. never been impressed by kirk.
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GodSaveTheKnicks
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7/29/2009  3:54 PM
During his last 3 seasons with Denver AI improved his FG % to about 45%.

His asssists numbers are pretty solid as well.

Everybody is poopin on this guy both verbally and with the kind of offers they're making him.

If one of the greatest scorers of this generation comes into the season with a chip on his shoulder and something to prove on the biggest stage in the league and we sign him to a one year deal..I'm in.

If he doesn't work out and we can package him with either Curry or JJ, why not?

Some GM is bound to be fooled by adding AI and the towering center Eddy Curry.



[Edited by - godsavetheknicks on 07-29-2009 3:55 PM]
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Cosmic
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7/29/2009  5:36 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

"dude is a bricklaying joke out there"

27 points per game 46% from the field.

When was this?

57 Games.
41.7%FG
28.3%FG3
17.5PPG

..............

Add in a terrible attitude and a desire to just CHUCK all game long and this helps us how?
Great. Now our entire offense would be comprised of Iverson or Harrington racing up the court to chuck up from 35 feet away to make sure they "get theirs".



Iverson is garbage. Iverson was good when he was a SIXER and that's only because somehow someway a team was constructed of defensive oriented players who had no problem at all watching Iverson chuck while cleaning up his mess. Since then what has this guy done? Other than alienate everyone around him and turn two good teams into trash when joining them.

Can we keep our focus here? We're doing AWAY with idiot players not trying to add them. We're building a new young nucleus here and a chump like Iverson would do nothing but lay that to waste and give the media something to do again.

No thanks to that circus.
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7/29/2009  6:07 PM
One major point that I don't recall anyone making.....
What if Iverson doesn't really want to play here!!! All this may be a ruse to get the other teams thinking that Iverson will sign with us, then they make a better offer and Iverson goes to the other team. This has happened with every other veteran we have tried to sign. This is no different. Iverson won't sign with us! Everyone just relax.
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fishmike
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7/29/2009  6:17 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by crzymdups:

The plan may have to be one FA in 2010 and another in 2011. This is the reality. And if that's the reality, wouldn't it be good to have Iverson on board next season to help the one max guy until max guy two shows up?
when has Iverson ever played with or attracted another star player? The only other star he played with was Melo and that was a disaster. AI has always been a one man show with role players. I dont want to watch the experiment of learning whether or not he can be a team guy at 34. No interest. If we want a FA to come here we need to play close to .500 ball and develop our young guys.

If anything I would target Hinrich.

I'd rather Sessions than Hinrich, really. Hinrich? Gross. I know he has the Steve Nash hair, but what else has he ever done to imply he could play in D'Antoni's system. Chicago's offense was always a mess when he ran it.
what offense? Look at the players they have had since he's been there. Its almost amazing he's gotten 6 assists.

He's got a good shot and midrange game. Great passer. Not an above the rim guy but one of the league's best defenders. Good contract and 28 years old. Plays his ass off every night. He's got twice the talent Duhon has and Chris looked pretty good running MDA's offense

i'd rather have raymond felton. i dunno. never been impressed by kirk.
I would welcome that for sure... I'm not targeting Hinrich. I think he's a good player but thats only if I am losing JJs contract. Otherwise I am just holding

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Cosmic
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7/29/2009  7:11 PM
Posted by Markji:

One major point that I don't recall anyone making.....
What if Iverson doesn't really want to play here!!! All this may be a ruse to get the other teams thinking that Iverson will sign with us, then they make a better offer and Iverson goes to the other team. This has happened with every other veteran we have tried to sign. This is no different. Iverson won't sign with us! Everyone just relax.

It is a ruse that never seems to end even though Isiah isn't here anymore and the Knicks aren't looking to waste major amounts of cash on washed up players. Yet, players still use us as a way to get paid, and why they try it or other teams fall for it is beyond comprehension.

It seems that any FA bust that has no suitors can just leak a story that the Knicks want them and suddenly other teams call them and offer them more money and they take it.

I understood it during the Isiah years. I don't understand it now. I also don't understand why we would even THINK of looking at such players.

Meanwhile, Memphis is going hoodrat big time. Zach. Tried to court Iverson...signed Marcus Williams just now. What the hell is that franchise up to?
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