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Only 1 team wanted Chauncey Billups when he was 26 for the MLE
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Marv
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7/27/2009  11:59 AM
i guess a lot of this is predicated on just how good you think sessions is going to be, and i haven’t seen enough of him to have that strong of an opinion on it.

i do think though that skita isn't worth a roster spot, nor almond. i'd rather keep the roster spots open for flexibility down the road in other potential deals.
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BRIGGS
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7/27/2009  12:01 PM
Posted by kam77:

I would sign Sessions now and worry about moving JJ and Curry later.

I would sign Sessions and Skita and try like hell to do a deal to get Boozer here even if it's for one year for now. I don't think it's going to work with David Lee and maybe it's best just to part ways and go in a different direction. I do not agree in anyway about the sentiment that David Lee is over rated etc... in fact I think he is under rated and a really good ballplayer but it just seems like it's going in the wrong direction--we made a big time draft commitment to Hill and this money thing is not going to work out. If there is a deal that can be done using David Lee Mobley to Utah for Boozer and Harpring--I say go for it.
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BRIGGS
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7/27/2009  12:04 PM
Posted by Marv:

i guess a lot of this is predicated on just how good you think sessions is going to be, and i haven’t seen enough of him to have that strong of an opinion on it.

i do think though that skita isn't worth a roster spot, nor almond. i'd rather keep the roster spots open for flexibility down the road in other potential deals.

I was very impressed with Skita. I thought his game really fit this style--he can block shots rebound he's mobile he can hit the three ball--to me his game looked very mature--much different than the past and we could use his size inside. Heck he could easily be better than darko if you think about his versatility. The guy did shoot 43% from 3 in the SL and its hard to guard a 7-1 at the 3 pt line. he showed that eh could take the dribble in if his shot was not there-willing to move the ball around. I really liked him--I thought he was unsung and he showed a lot to me.
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TheGame
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7/27/2009  1:30 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by Bonn1997:

I doubt sessions will sign a 3 yr, $18 mil contract. Someone will offer him more. I'd stop with all the fancy stuff and just give him a full five year MLE contract.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 07-27-2009 08:26 AM]

He might not have a choice if we get the Bucks to agree to a sign and trade. I, however, do agree that if Sessions wants to 5yr full MLE deal, we should go ahead and give it too him. He has more potential than our other MLE failures.

It doesn't work like that. He's an FA. He has to agree to the contract and also agree to the trade if we do an S & T.

I understand how it works. My point is that if the Bucks agree to a sign and trade, then we don't face the threat of the Bucks matching the offer, we can just agree to a trade. This will give Sessions less leverage to force a higher contract. Because he is a RFA, we are forced to make the highest offer we can to deter the Bucks from matching. Without that leverage, Sessions will have more pressure on him to accept what we offer if he wants a new multi-year deal.
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TheGame
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7/27/2009  1:36 PM
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by Bonn1997:

I doubt sessions will sign a 3 yr, $18 mil contract. Someone will offer him more. I'd stop with all the fancy stuff and just give him a full five year MLE contract.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 07-27-2009 08:26 AM]

He might not have a choice if we get the Bucks to agree to a sign and trade. I, however, do agree that if Sessions wants to 5yr full MLE deal, we should go ahead and give it too him. He has more potential than our other MLE failures.

It doesn't work like that. He's an FA. He has to agree to the contract and also agree to the trade if we do an S & T.

I understand how it works. My point is that if the Bucks agree to a sign and trade, then we don't face the threat of the Bucks matching the offer, we can just agree to a trade. This will give Sessions less leverage to force a higher contract. Because he is a RFA, we are forced to make the highest offer we can to deter the Bucks from matching. Without that leverage, Sessions will have more pressure on him to accept what we offer if he wants a new multi-year deal. Obviously, it still must be a deal that Session agrees to, but this guy was a second round pick. Getting a deal for 3 or 4 years at $6 mill per, is a huge raise for him. In either case, I am of the view that we should just role the dice with Sessions. We don't have a draft pick next year, so we aren't getting a starting caliber PG through the draft and what FA is available next year that is better than Sessions in the longterm. This talk of Chris Paul is ridiculous and even if Paul became available, we would have a better chance of getting him if we could send the Hornets a solid pg in return, meaning Sessions would probably increase (not decrease) our chances of getting a Chris Paul. Look at the Dallas, they got Kidd (whether you think he was an upgrade or not) because they could send NJ Devin Harris.

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7/27/2009  2:00 PM
Just trying to wrap my head around how the MLE works. let's say it's 2012 and we are 8M under the cap and we have our full MLE. There is a FA that we really want but it's going to take 12-14M to sign him. At this point, can we offer our 8M plus our full MLE to sign him. If the answer is yes, then I can definitely see why DW is reluctant to use the full MLE now for Sessions (unproven) in lieu of maintaing more cap flexibility in the future when we might want to target (proven) FA's.

Let's say we do land 2 FA's in 2010, if we want to add another piece later on the MLE gives us more flexibilty if we can use it in conjunction with cap space. Maybe I'm overstating the obvious, but it would seem that DW's biggest priority is to maintain cap flexibility in the future so that we are never in this situation again...atleast until we are a contender and have the main pieces in place already.
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7/27/2009  2:02 PM
if you are under the cap, you don't get an MLE.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
RonRon
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7/27/2009  2:17 PM
ive never seen any of the summer league plays and didnt see much of camby last year on the clippers but to me he is the best defender and shot blocker we need to cause these fast breaks IF healthy....
2 things we really havent had from our big men....we just had rebounding in lee
and if his contract is for only for a year it doesnt hurt us much and
RonRon
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7/27/2009  2:19 PM
with a lineup of sessions,chandler,gallo, harrington, camby i think it makes us similiar to a GS a couple years back in the EAST...
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7/27/2009  2:21 PM
We have no 2010 pick to get the PG of the future, and even if we did, that would mean using fill-in PGs until he develops, anyway. We have no Duhon after next year, and even if he stays, he is never going to lead this team to the next level. We have Douglas, who at this point, seems like he can be a very nice backup and spot starter PG, but I can't see him taking us to the next level.

Who are we looking at to be our PG in the future. We talk about signing the big names, but we have no PG, and if we don't get some of the big names who aren't PGs but also distribute (James/Wade), who is going to be handling the ball in a PG dominated system?

I think that if MDA and his brother think Sessions can be a 7/10 quality PG, we should get him. There is no guarantee that anyone better is going to be actually available to us in the near future.

I'm hoping that we work out something with Sessions, even if it means a S&T where we trade Duhon for Sessions, unless people have a better idea for getting a PG. I don't think people can assume that we are getting any of the big names coming out in 2010. We might get them, and we want to have a chance to get them, but passing up a good PG because we expect to land a big fish next year, makes no sense at this point. Nobody expected Sessions to be available, and we don't have a ton of competition for him- seems like the guy has fallen into our lap. Why push him away, especially since the Bucks are not getting into a bidding war with us?

I just hope that Walsh plays his cards right on this one.
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7/27/2009  2:51 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by s3231:

In my finances thread ( the link that franco posted) I show that you can give sessions a big enough signing bonus that would essentially pay him over $11 million in his first season. Pritchard did a signing bonus with Millsap and I think it is the best way to go. I just don't see Milwaukee matching that for their third point guard.

[Edited by - s3231 on 07-27-2009 07:58 AM]

That's true but I don't think the signing bonus would affect the Milwaukee's team payroll and thus wouldn't be money they'd have to spend luxury tax on. The luxury tax is the big deterrent to them matching. I'm not even certain that by matching the contract, they'd have to pay the same signing bonus (rather than just spreading the money in a "normal" fashion over the duration of the contract). This stuff is definitely confusing and I doubt any of us are gonna think of something the GMs won't realize.


It doesn't affect team payroll or the luxury tax, but its still extra cash Milwaukee has to come up with to pay Sessions. For a franchise like the Bucks, owned by a Senator who isn't really known for spending the big bucks to win, $11 million is a lot of cash to pay to your third favorite PG on the team.

And if they match, I'm pretty sure they would have to pay the same exact signing bonus. Pritchard did this to the Jazz with Millsap and from what I remember, Utah matched knowing they would have to pay Paul a large sum this season.
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Anji
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7/27/2009  4:52 PM
Briggs you might not be that off with the Billups pistons comparison. I can't act like I've been watching sessions at all really, but you see the kinds of highs this kid has hit while playing in the NBA........... @ 23 years old signing him could be very, very good.

Money shouldn't be an issue.

[Edited by - anji on 07-27-2009 5:10 PM]
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7/27/2009  5:06 PM
Sessions cant hit a three, which I feel is cause for the hesitation Walsh is displaying. Since 'Antoni masturbates at the three-point line, he probably dismisses all of Sessions strong suits and looks at him as a liability. Only thing I can think of for a player who is this young, has great potential, and comes relatively cheap.

[Edited by - sebstar on 07-27-2009 5:10 PM]
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McK1
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7/27/2009  5:09 PM
Clips are still in the running for Sessions
While the Los Angeles Clippers are no longer pursuing Allen Iverson(notes), they remain interested in Milwaukee Bucks restricted free-agent guard Ramon Sessions(notes), league sources said.

The Clippers are believed to be willing to give Sessions an offer sheet that begins in the $4 million to $4.5 million range. It’s unclear whether that would be enough to dissuade the Bucks from matching.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-freeagentbuzz072509&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[Edited by - McK1 on 07-27-2009 5:10 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
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7/27/2009  5:15 PM
Posted by McK1:

Clips are still in the running for Sessions
While the Los Angeles Clippers are no longer pursuing Allen Iverson(notes), they remain interested in Milwaukee Bucks restricted free-agent guard Ramon Sessions(notes), league sources said.

The Clippers are believed to be willing to give Sessions an offer sheet that begins in the $4 million to $4.5 million range. It’s unclear whether that would be enough to dissuade the Bucks from matching.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-freeagentbuzz072509&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[Edited by - McK1 on 07-27-2009 5:10 PM]

bucks would match that. they just made a minor trade to create a little more luxury tax breathing room.
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BRIGGS
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7/27/2009  5:16 PM
Posted by McK1:

Clips are still in the running for Sessions
While the Los Angeles Clippers are no longer pursuing Allen Iverson(notes), they remain interested in Milwaukee Bucks restricted free-agent guard Ramon Sessions(notes), league sources said.

The Clippers are believed to be willing to give Sessions an offer sheet that begins in the $4 million to $4.5 million range. It�s unclear whether that would be enough to dissuade the Bucks from matching.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-freeagentbuzz072509&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[Edited by - McK1 on 07-27-2009 5:10 PM]

You see this is stupid. Maybe the Bucks dont want Chris Duhon[if that is what the Knicks are holding out for] just offer the full MLE with trade kickers--anything that will deter the Bucks from matching the offer. Will the Knicks potentially rely on Douglas if Duhon gets hurt? We'll win 20 games
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7/27/2009  5:20 PM
Posted by sebstar:

Sessions cant hit a three, which I feel is cause for the hesitation Walsh is displaying. Since 'Antoni masturbates at the three-point line, he probably dismisses all of Sessions strong suits and looks at him as a liability. Only thing I can think of for a player who is this young, has great potential, and comes relatively cheap.

[Edited by - sebstar on 07-27-2009 5:10 PM]
The kid is a scorer though. He may not be a great three point shooter, but he can go for 40. I would think all the things he can do, out weigh his 3fg%. If you But Sessions one the knicks, the for a first time in a long time you can really say the knicks have alot of young talent.
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7/27/2009  5:43 PM
Posted by Anji:
Posted by sebstar:

Sessions cant hit a three, which I feel is cause for the hesitation Walsh is displaying. Since 'Antoni masturbates at the three-point line, he probably dismisses all of Sessions strong suits and looks at him as a liability. Only thing I can think of for a player who is this young, has great potential, and comes relatively cheap.

[Edited by - sebstar on 07-27-2009 5:10 PM]
The kid is a scorer though. He may not be a great three point shooter, but he can go for 40. I would think all the things he can do, out weigh his 3fg%. If you But Sessions one the knicks, the for a first time in a long time you can really say the knicks have alot of young talent.

Defenses might be able to adjust to him and play off him a little if they know he cant shoot a three whatsoever.

I think that is the only thing that is holding back an offer sheet.
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BRIGGS
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7/27/2009  5:47 PM
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by Anji:
Posted by sebstar:

Sessions cant hit a three, which I feel is cause for the hesitation Walsh is displaying. Since 'Antoni masturbates at the three-point line, he probably dismisses all of Sessions strong suits and looks at him as a liability. Only thing I can think of for a player who is this young, has great potential, and comes relatively cheap.

[Edited by - sebstar on 07-27-2009 5:10 PM]
The kid is a scorer though. He may not be a great three point shooter, but he can go for 40. I would think all the things he can do, out weigh his 3fg%. If you But Sessions one the knicks, the for a first time in a long time you can really say the knicks have alot of young talent.

Defenses might be able to adjust to him and play off him a little if they know he cant shoot a three whatsoever.

I think that is the only thing that is holding back an offer sheet.

Can anyone name a player who is even close to his talent level who is available anytime soon?
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TheGame
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7/27/2009  5:49 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by Anji:
Posted by sebstar:

Sessions cant hit a three, which I feel is cause for the hesitation Walsh is displaying. Since 'Antoni masturbates at the three-point line, he probably dismisses all of Sessions strong suits and looks at him as a liability. Only thing I can think of for a player who is this young, has great potential, and comes relatively cheap.

[Edited by - sebstar on 07-27-2009 5:10 PM]
The kid is a scorer though. He may not be a great three point shooter, but he can go for 40. I would think all the things he can do, out weigh his 3fg%. If you But Sessions one the knicks, the for a first time in a long time you can really say the knicks have alot of young talent.

Defenses might be able to adjust to him and play off him a little if they know he cant shoot a three whatsoever.

I think that is the only thing that is holding back an offer sheet.

Can anyone name a player who is even close to his talent level who is available anytime soon?

No one, and I really don't think his shooting is that bad. As I said before, he has not been forced to shoot 3s, so he never focused on that aspect of his game. You give him a summer of shooting 300-400 3s a day and tell him he needs to be prepared to shoot 4-5 of them a game, and I think you will see his percentage get into the high 30s.
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Only 1 team wanted Chauncey Billups when he was 26 for the MLE
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