Zach Randolph, Jamal Crawford and 50 NBA victories.

The first and last time those things will be in a sentence together.

Posted by kam77:

Zach Randolph, Jamal Crawford and 50 NBA victories.

The first and last time those things will be in a sentence together.

50 career nba victories

What they heck is going on here...all MDA is saying is how we want to make the playoffs that's our goal...so who's expatations are realistic

[/quote]
Will you consider a success making playoffs 25 times in a row and getting kicked in first round?
If this is what you want, Leyden was the best GM ever. Isiah was not even capable of this kind of "achievements".
Walsh want this team to be among the best in NBA and willing to sacrifice 2-3 years of sucking for this.
Are you?
[/quote]

I am willing to sacrifice a year... one year. This is exactly what I was saying.

If you don't expect ANYTHING until 2011, well a fire hydrant could have cleared the cap by then because all of the contracts were already set to expire by then.

Giving Walsh credit for making the team worse while keeping us on the same schedule is a little ridiculous. No?

Craw and Zach were killing it before that trade, like it or not.

Here's the other thing, we didn't go all the way with the plan. We didn't package Lee or Nate to get rid of Jeffries and really get aggressive with the 2010 plan. We half arsed it and for that I think that Walsh failed. I said it at the deadline and he hasn't proven otherwise.

Posted by bitty41:

Posted by eViL:

the NBA isn't the NFL. i don't get people here who expected an immediate turnaround by Walsh. this league is not exactly the picture of parity. reviving a franchise can take a long time. chicago went in the tank before us and they are barely making noise now. atlanta was in the tank before us and they finally crawled out a few years ago. dallas was a terrible team for large portions of the 90's. they've had a pretty good record this decade. the anti-walsh sentiment here seems misplaced considering it takes so long to fix an NBA mess. it's not like teams are jumping up and down every season. the top of each conference has been pretty static for a long time now.

I believe that there was/is moves that Walsh could have made last summer till now to make the Knicks into a playoff team pure and simple. D'Antoni is a competent coach and if Walsh plugged in 2 or 3 decent players this team would make the playoffs. After all if Walsh was strictly in rebuild mode then why retain a coach for 10 million a pop, why not do more to get draft picks, why not draft players who are NBA ready vs guys who still need a few years to develop?

At least create an agenda and get everyone in organization on the same page.

Can you list a couple of trades he could/should have made?

Posted by Bippity10:

I am now starting to understand why Isiah did the things that he did. YOu really can't rebuild in NY.

Yeah, but you can suck for 8 consecutive years, with W/L records that are the same as a team who is rebuilding, right? Right.

Isiah tried, can't fault that, he really did. He didn't come in saying to himself he was going to F the Knicks up for fun, but, he really did F us up.

Know what? After watching Layden's Good-Guy-Rebuild-onthefly fail, then watching Isiahs Bad-Boy-Rebuild-onthefly-itjustmightwork fail.

WALSH DID THE ABSOLUTE RIGHT THING HERE!

Tear down the roster. Again, acquiring Hughes, Timmy T, Harrington, etc - wasn't meant to build the new team with those guys - it was meant to use them as pawns to get him to a financially responsible place in the NBA. This is where the camp divides on what Walsh has done. The detractors want to think he got these guys to compete. Those who understand the plan know they were acquired for their contracts - and also for certain - the fact they weren't Isiahs players - who ran amuck in MSG for five years - that resulted in turning us into the most juvenile immature mess of a franchise in the entire league.

Now, as to Walsh's plan, I've outlined it in detail adnauseum. So here's the cliff notes.

1) Realize the situation. Isiah's, and even Laydens, Failed.
2) Change path.
3) Tear down roster.
4) While tearing down, acquire assets, whether it's friendly contracts or intriguing youth, do it.
* WE ARE AT #4 RIGHT NOW, STARTING TO ENTER #5
5) Start building the new team.
6) Start adding TALENT to the new team (2010 FA class is pretty nice, yes? So let's throw our hat into that ring. If the big fish go elsewhere, that's fine, there's other fish to be had.)
7) Add your MLE/LLE type players to the new team.
8) Contend.


......what is SO WRONG about this path that some fans keep singing "WE WERE 6-5! CRAWFORD AND ZACH WERE TAKING US TO THE FINALS! WALSH IS OLD!"

Bleh........come'on! People need to wake up. 6-5 start was nice, but the wheels were already falling off, and it was evident we faced teams terribly weakened by injury, and we were well on our way to 35-38 wins and missing the playoffs. So, seriously, people need to stop pretending we were going to win 45 games that year.

Anyways, back to the topic: THIS Knick fan watching the 09-10 Knicks? I understand we're going to see more turnover in line with the 2010 plan and we're likely to yet again be a 30-something win non-playoff team. And I couldn't give two ****s where the Utah pick ends up. It hasn't been our pick since 2003!

........I think I need to go to sleep.

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by Bippity10:

I am now starting to understand why Isiah did the things that he did. YOu really can't rebuild in NY.

sure you can. the vocal majority are not season ticket holders so the opinions don't count. it's easy to say you'll be patient for a rebuild when there's no vested interest.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-20-2009 11:28 PM]

So because you pay for tickets management should sacrifice a true chance at a legit rebuild that could yield a championship team within the next five years ------ for a continued, poisonous, disastrous, mess of a team that constantly trades for other team's malcontents and uses that as a veil to conceal pathetic moves?

You know what Isiah was about to do? Trade expirings, picks, kids for Baron Davis. Sign some garbage man to the full MLE, and then promise us contention for a title.

I'm sorry but I think you sell legit ticket buyers out by saying what you said.

Anyone that thinks that Isiah's roster was yet again an 'expirings for another team's big name player' and 'an mle and lle signing' away from going from 23/33 wins to 45+ wins and a shot at a title? Needs to just quit life.

Why? Aren't nearly five years of Isiah's mess proof enough it didn't and wouldn't ever work with what he had assembled? What do you add to that MESS to make it work?

Hell, even Michael Jordan in his PRIME couldn't will that dysfunctional mess to the 2nd round of the playoffs let alone a finals bid. Why? Mike would see games where he only had 4 FGAs per game. That's why.

To think otherwise is lunacy.

Come'on already.......

AGAIN!

Walsh and his brain trust, which includes quite a few very knowledgeable people (something that is always overlooked, ignored, etc, as if Walsh is on his own) saw just what was going on.

Layden's rebuild on the fly with good guys.
Isiah's rebuild on the fly with bad guys with potential.


WAS NOT WORKING AT ALL! NOT CLOSE JUST PLAIN FLUNKING OUT!

And Walsh said? Can't fix this core, gotta tear it down, then build it up, and it's going to take time.

Why are so many people opposed to the necessary truth here? I can't understand.

Walsh might fail but he damn sure has the RIGHT IDEA as to what process this franchise must undergo to return it to greatness.

Those who lament losing Zach and Craw and Marbs and thought we could yet again recycle just ONE MORE expiring and sign ONE MORE MLE player and we'd suddenly go from 23 wins to 57 wins and the NBA Finals... are.. well, clueless. Entirely clueless. I am amazed such people remember to breath air. Seriously.

Wake the hell up.

And with that, now I am serious, I NEED to go to bed. Got to be up in less than 4 hours. Go me.