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BasketballJones
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7/12/2009  12:42 PM
Posted by Caseloads:

look, unless we get kobe or lebarons ;-) the knicks are not winning the championship

Hopefully we can get John Voight's Le Baron.
https:// It's not so hard.
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Cosmic
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7/12/2009  12:43 PM
Posted by Caseloads:

look, unless we get kobe or lebarons ;-) the knicks are not winning the championship

No thanks, you can keep the lebaron.


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BasketballJones
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7/12/2009  12:43 PM
https:// It's not so hard.
Bonn1997
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7/12/2009  4:19 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Caseloads:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by CrushAlot:

In this 'buyer's market' could you buy anything other than a commitment to mediocrity?

with d'antoni in tow, i think the knicks could've fielded a team that could've challenged using the "buyer's" mentality. and by challenge, i'm talking about 50 win and advancing in the playoffs. it's not always championship or bust...there's alot of success in between.

this is false. who could ny have gotten other than kidd to become a 50 win team this year?

Only a PG with Kidd type leadership and PG skills who makes players better would have made this team 50 wins.

dj is talking about last year. Baron Davis was available and wanted to come here. Knicks would've been a much better team with Davis.

basically. when you see guys like vince + baron + shaq + rj + marion + etc. all moved for nothing but expirings, the knicks could've easily fielded a team of at least 2 all stars. and in the east, with d'antoni, that wins big and advances.
I honestly don't care for any of those players on a rebuilding team. You mentioned luck playing a role in winning a championship, and it does. But luck is much more likely to bounce your way if you at least have a franchise player in place already. Most of those guys are not even #2s on a solid team.
Caseloads
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7/12/2009  4:22 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Caseloads:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by CrushAlot:

In this 'buyer's market' could you buy anything other than a commitment to mediocrity?

with d'antoni in tow, i think the knicks could've fielded a team that could've challenged using the "buyer's" mentality. and by challenge, i'm talking about 50 win and advancing in the playoffs. it's not always championship or bust...there's alot of success in between.

this is false. who could ny have gotten other than kidd to become a 50 win team this year?

Only a PG with Kidd type leadership and PG skills who makes players better would have made this team 50 wins.

dj is talking about last year. Baron Davis was available and wanted to come here. Knicks would've been a much better team with Davis.

basically. when you see guys like vince + baron + shaq + rj + marion + etc. all moved for nothing but expirings, the knicks could've easily fielded a team of at least 2 all stars. and in the east, with d'antoni, that wins big and advances.
I honestly don't care for any of those players on a rebuilding team. You mentioned luck playing a role in winning a championship, and it does. But luck is much more likely to bounce your way if you at least have a franchise player in place already. Most of those guys are not even #2s on a solid team.

exactly what I was saying.
djsunyc
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7/12/2009  4:50 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Caseloads:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by CrushAlot:

In this 'buyer's market' could you buy anything other than a commitment to mediocrity?

with d'antoni in tow, i think the knicks could've fielded a team that could've challenged using the "buyer's" mentality. and by challenge, i'm talking about 50 win and advancing in the playoffs. it's not always championship or bust...there's alot of success in between.

this is false. who could ny have gotten other than kidd to become a 50 win team this year?

Only a PG with Kidd type leadership and PG skills who makes players better would have made this team 50 wins.

dj is talking about last year. Baron Davis was available and wanted to come here. Knicks would've been a much better team with Davis.

basically. when you see guys like vince + baron + shaq + rj + marion + etc. all moved for nothing but expirings, the knicks could've easily fielded a team of at least 2 all stars. and in the east, with d'antoni, that wins big and advances.
I honestly don't care for any of those players on a rebuilding team. You mentioned luck playing a role in winning a championship, and it does. But luck is much more likely to bounce your way if you at least have a franchise player in place already. Most of those guys are not even #2s on a solid team.

vince + baron + shaq aren't even #2's? lol...

when they hired d'antoni, the plan should've been all in. all this "rebuilding" stuff is somewhat silly b/c if the knicks sign a free agent or two in 2010, all these guys are gonna be dealt soon enough. heck, nate + dlee are gonna be gone soon and you call this rebuilding?
Bonn1997
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7/12/2009  5:32 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Caseloads:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by CrushAlot:

In this 'buyer's market' could you buy anything other than a commitment to mediocrity?

with d'antoni in tow, i think the knicks could've fielded a team that could've challenged using the "buyer's" mentality. and by challenge, i'm talking about 50 win and advancing in the playoffs. it's not always championship or bust...there's alot of success in between.

this is false. who could ny have gotten other than kidd to become a 50 win team this year?

Only a PG with Kidd type leadership and PG skills who makes players better would have made this team 50 wins.

dj is talking about last year. Baron Davis was available and wanted to come here. Knicks would've been a much better team with Davis.

basically. when you see guys like vince + baron + shaq + rj + marion + etc. all moved for nothing but expirings, the knicks could've easily fielded a team of at least 2 all stars. and in the east, with d'antoni, that wins big and advances.
I honestly don't care for any of those players on a rebuilding team. You mentioned luck playing a role in winning a championship, and it does. But luck is much more likely to bounce your way if you at least have a franchise player in place already. Most of those guys are not even #2s on a solid team.

vince + baron + shaq aren't even #2's? lol...

when they hired d'antoni, the plan should've been all in. all this "rebuilding" stuff is somewhat silly b/c if the knicks sign a free agent or two in 2010, all these guys are gonna be dealt soon enough. heck, nate + dlee are gonna be gone soon and you call this rebuilding?


Put it this way: Vince + Baron + Shaq are not as good as the #2s on any of the recent championship winning teams. So, no, they aren't #2s. Earlier in their careers, they might have been. Vince might still be on the border of #2 or #3 and same with Shaq. Baron is definitely not a #2. (Note that I said "most" not "all" of them are not #2s.)
McK1
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7/12/2009  6:21 PM
so none of those 3 are on the level of Pierce Parker Pau or Billups...do you even actually watch basketball
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Bonn1997
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7/12/2009  6:50 PM
Posted by McK1:

so none of those 3 are on the level of Pierce Parker Pau or Billups
Correct.
Let's make this simple:
If the Lakers were offered Wince for Pau, would they do the trade? No way. Use the same question but substitute each championship team player for each of the players DJ listed and come back to me when you can answer "yes" for any of them.

McK1
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7/12/2009  6:54 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by McK1:

so none of those 3 are on the level of Pierce Parker Pau or Billups
Correct.
Let's make this simple:
If the Lakers were offered Wince for Pau, would they do the trade? No way. Use the same question but substitute each championship team player for each of the players DJ listed and come back to me when you can answer "yes" for any of them.

lets make this relative:

if the Lakers were offered Vince for Crittendon Gasol and a pick would they do that trade? Yes. Can Kobe Vince Bynum win a title? Yes.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Bonn1997
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7/12/2009  6:58 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by McK1:

so none of those 3 are on the level of Pierce Parker Pau or Billups
Correct.
Let's make this simple:
If the Lakers were offered Wince for Pau, would they do the trade? No way. Use the same question but substitute each championship team player for each of the players DJ listed and come back to me when you can answer "yes" for any of them.

lets make this relative:

if the Lakers were offered Vince for Crittendon Gasol and a pick would they do that trade? Yes. Can Kobe Vince Bynum win a title? Yes.
Wow, I think there's no way on earth they would trade Pau for Wince but obviously neither of us can prove our view and there really isn't anything left to discuss.
Bonn1997
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7/12/2009  7:03 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by McK1:

so none of those 3 are on the level of Pierce Parker Pau or Billups
Correct.
Let's make this simple:
If the Lakers were offered Wince for Pau, would they do the trade? No way. Use the same question but substitute each championship team player for each of the players DJ listed and come back to me when you can answer "yes" for any of them.

lets make this relative:

if the Lakers were offered Vince for Crittendon Gasol and a pick would they do that trade? Yes. Can Kobe Vince Bynum win a title? Yes.
Wow, I think there's no way on earth they would trade Pau for Wince but obviously neither of us can prove our view and there really isn't anything left to discuss.
I mean the most likely scenario with a Kobe, Vince, Bynum pairing is that Kobe plays while Vince and Bynum wear fancy suits.

Here's another way to look at it: Would the Lakers even entertain let alone agree to an offer of Rafer Alston, Tony Battie and Courtney Lee for Pau? Would any team that had Pau on their roster entertain that offer? Of course you're free to just be difficult and say yes again but I don't think you'd be fooling yourself.
McK1
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7/12/2009  7:11 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:


Wow, I think there's no way on earth they would trade Pau for Wince but obviously neither of us can prove our view and there really isn't anything left to discuss.

you do know Pau was traded for his younger brother right?
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Bonn1997
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7/12/2009  7:13 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Bonn1997:


Wow, I think there's no way on earth they would trade Pau for Wince but obviously neither of us can prove our view and there really isn't anything left to discuss.

you do know Pau was traded for his younger brother right?

you do know that multiple first round picks were included, right? (and yet that's still a highly criticized trade)

Again, answer this
Would the Lakers even entertain let alone agree to an offer of Rafer Alston, Tony Battie and Courtney Lee for Pau? Would any team that had Pau on their roster entertain that offer?

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 07-12-2009 7:14 PM]
McK1
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7/12/2009  7:18 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Bonn1997:


Wow, I think there's no way on earth they would trade Pau for Wince but obviously neither of us can prove our view and there really isn't anything left to discuss.

you do know Pau was traded for his younger brother right?

you do know that multiple first round picks were included, right? (and yet that's still a highly criticized trade)

Again, answer this
Would the Lakers even entertain let alone agree to an offer of Rafer Alston, Tony Battie and Courtney Lee for Pau? Would any team that had Pau on their roster entertain that offer?

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 07-12-2009 7:14 PM]

no they wouldn't and this has nothing to do with the trade that brought Pau to LA. LA would have also made the same trade for vince and would still have been a title contender.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Bonn1997
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7/12/2009  7:23 PM
I doubt Kobe would even want Vince on his team and I doubt that team would have won a championship. Constructing a team where your top two players are both 6'6" shooting guards with very similar skill sets (Kobe's just being better) strikes me as something Isiah would think up.
nyk4ever
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7/12/2009  7:29 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

I doubt Kobe would even want Vince on his team and I doubt that team would have won a championship. Constructing a team where your top two players are both 6'6" shooting guards with very similar skill sets (Kobe's just being better) strikes me as something Isiah would think up.

Absolutely agree with you Bonn. Theres not a chance in the world that LA wins the title with a Kobe/Vince combo. Not a chance.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
McK1
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7/12/2009  7:29 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

I doubt Kobe would even want Vince on his team and I doubt that team would have won a championship. Constructing a team where your top two players are both 6'6" shooting guards with very similar skill sets (Kobe's just being better) strikes me as something Isiah would think up.

I guess you missed the 6 title years Phil had in Chicago with Jordan and Pip..and you call yourself a Knicks fan
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Bonn1997
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7/12/2009  7:42 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Bonn1997:

I doubt Kobe would even want Vince on his team and I doubt that team would have won a championship. Constructing a team where your top two players are both 6'6" shooting guards with very similar skill sets (Kobe's just being better) strikes me as something Isiah would think up.

I guess you missed the 6 title years Phil had in Chicago with Jordan and Pip..and you call yourself a Knicks fan
You need to see the eye doctor if you think Pippen was a shooting guard and had an identical skill set to MJ's. Scottie played in 1178 career games including 272 where he wasn't on the Bulls. You wanna look up how many of those games he started at SG?
Bonn1997
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7/12/2009  7:45 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by Bonn1997:

I doubt Kobe would even want Vince on his team and I doubt that team would have won a championship. Constructing a team where your top two players are both 6'6" shooting guards with very similar skill sets (Kobe's just being better) strikes me as something Isiah would think up.

Absolutely agree with you Bonn. Theres not a chance in the world that LA wins the title with a Kobe/Vince combo. Not a chance.
But "it's so crazy it just might work!"


[Edited by - bonn1997 on 07-12-2009 7:45 PM]
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