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kam77
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7/11/2009  10:41 AM
DW should offer 4 yrs and 36mil

year 1: 9 mil
year 2: 8.1 mil
year 3: 9 mil
year 4: 10 mil

If necessary, tack on a 5th year a 11 mil.

5 yrs, 47mil is pretty close to where I think Lee and agent would sign.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
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Bonn1997
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7/11/2009  10:46 AM
Posted by kam77:

DW should offer 4 yrs and 36mil

year 1: 9 mil
year 2: 8.1 mil
year 3: 9 mil
year 4: 10 mil

If necessary, tack on a 5th year a 11 mil.

5 yrs, 47mil is pretty close to where I think Lee and agent would sign.

I think that 5th year would make him less tradeable. I think that's why Donnie supposedly offered or at least suggested the 4 year, $32 mil. The next best offer for Lee is gonna be the MLE--starting at around $5.7 mil next year. We're offering him $9 mil next year and a much higher annual rate. We're significantly out-bidding the competition already. No need to add a 5th year. It would be hard to imagine Lee passing up on $9 mil next year and 36 mil guaranteed just to play for the qualifying offer. Heck, we could even put a player option after year 2 of the contract so that he can opt out and get the max contract his agent thinks he'll get.
PresIke
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7/11/2009  10:55 AM
i think most criticizing the notion of lee as being better than milsap, etc. are accurate, but in fairness to lee the fact that he is a restricted free-agent makes things more complicated for the teams who might want to sign him, because of a few reasons.

one being that if they do sign lee to an offer sheet, they have to wait a week for the knicks to respond. that ties their hands on other deals, because what if the knicks wait until the last day and then match, then meanwhile milsap signs with another team. then a team like portland is out of luck.

two, is that the knicks have been very good about creating a major smokescreen about lee and nate. no one seems to know for sure if they will match, which would make teams that more hesitant, especially if it means that the price they think the knicks will not match is probably going to mean they will have to overpay for him, which no team wants to do. the knicks newfound fiscal responsibility and focus on the 2010 market makes it hard for lee to get offer sheets signed.

in other words, i don't think this is as much about lee being overrated as much as the market being what it is, plus the knicks focus + approach + lee's restricted free-agent status make it harder for him to get offer sheets.

i believe once the other options are all gone, then lee might get one of the remaining teams, if their are any, to sign him to an offer sheet. the problem is if no team with cap space wants to use it, the best he can get is an mle offer. i am certain that if that happens the knicks are SURE to match it, because that may even be below what most think he is valued around; 7-9 mil.

the question is what will lee do? maybe he signs a 1 year 7-8 mil deal with the knicks, but i don't know if the knicks will want that because that hurts their ability to deal him, and would need to renounce him (i think) otherwise. although, maybe it would mean the knicks, with his bird rights, could sign-and-trade him next year for one of the big free-agents? if he has a great year, and shows more improvement, then maybe we just sign him to a big deal and one big free-agent (assuming we have the room for that).

[Edited by - PresIke on 07-11-2009 10:55 AM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
s3231
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7/11/2009  11:06 AM
I think the most likely outcome is Walsh gets Lee back at the price he wants (or close to it) but they give David a player option after 2 or 3 years so that he can opt out if he is being underpaid.

That is the best option available right now for Lee and I would think his agent can't be stupid enough to turn it down.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
nyk4ever
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7/11/2009  11:48 AM
I would not pay Lee an average of 9mil a year. There is no market for him so why overpay. David should take the 5yrs/35mill and be happy. He won't get a better off anywhere else this offseason.
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arkrud
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7/11/2009  12:09 PM
So now Walsh critics MANUP!!!
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purple012870
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7/11/2009  12:12 PM
If the Millsap deal isn't matched & no other team can offer him > than the MLE, why not offer Lee 1mm more than the MLE & dare him to play for tghe QO????
Bonn1997
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7/11/2009  1:19 PM
Posted by purple012870:

If the Millsap deal isn't matched & no other team can offer him > than the MLE, why not offer Lee 1mm more than the MLE & dare him to play for tghe QO????
Him playing for the qualifying offer means we'll probably lose him for nothing the following year. You cannot trade a player playing for the qualifying offer and he'd be pissed enough at us that I doubt he'd want to re-sign here.
orangeblobman
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7/11/2009  1:21 PM
Whatever the number, it's becoming more lucid that Donnie knows what he is doing, KNEW what he was doing with Lee, and will continue to make solid, fundamentally-sound basketball decisions in the years to come.
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Cosmic
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7/11/2009  1:26 PM
Posted by martin:

i am allanfaned

I am getting there myself today.

Meanwhile, I think in light of this thread, and the other doomsday devices planted throughout the first page of UK, that we need to sign David Lee to the MAX and then fire Walsh!!!

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VDesai
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7/11/2009  1:53 PM
Lee is better than Milsap or Varajao but not as good as Bargnani. I still say Lee is worth about 8 mil per year.
Pharzeone
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7/11/2009  2:19 PM
Posted by VDesai:

Lee is better than Milsap or Varajao but not as good as Bargnani. I still say Lee is worth about 8 mil per year.

Lee is not better than Millsap. Just cause king keep saying so doesn't make it true. Lee scores 3 points more, grabs 3 more rebounds than Millsap but plays nearly 4 more minutes than he did last season. Also, Millsap blows away Lee in block shots per game. Millsap's defense is better.
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markvmc
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7/11/2009  2:21 PM
Lee is worth what the market says he's worth. At the moment, that seems to be the QO.
Cosmic
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7/11/2009  2:26 PM
Posted by kam77:

DW should offer 4 yrs and 36mil

year 1: 9 mil
year 2: 8.1 mil
year 3: 9 mil
year 4: 10 mil

If necessary, tack on a 5th year a 11 mil.

5 yrs, 47mil is pretty close to where I think Lee and agent would sign.

Way too much for a player who does things in a way a backup player on a good team does.

Rebounds, scores in transition, scores off of broken plays that lead to him finding himself near the rim wide open with the ball.

Your starting PF needs to be able to play defense or at least have a very good jump shot in his arsenal. Lee has neither. All those double doubles, 34 wins is his career best. When he played next to a more dominant player his stats shrank into birdman levels minus any defense.

Is this the guy you give a lucrative contract to? Warm and fuzzy feelings as if he is our kid aside... NO WAY.

Would it be painful to let him walk or S&T him for expirings and a pick? Probably.

The fact that no one has offered him anything near what he wants should be telling. If he was as good as some are led to believe would he not have inked a 4yr 32M offer by now? 8M a year for what he does is probably overpaying.

Again, you can't talk market, single out a player or two who were grossly overpaid, and muse "Well, I like Lee more than those two, so he must be worth more than what they got!" and then screw your team for the next 5 years by overpaying for him!

Walsh, thankfully, doesn't seem the type to do that.
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Allanfan20
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7/11/2009  2:37 PM
Posted by kam77:

DW should offer 4 yrs and 36mil

year 1: 9 mil
year 2: 8.1 mil
year 3: 9 mil
year 4: 10 mil

If necessary, tack on a 5th year a 11 mil.

5 yrs, 47mil is pretty close to where I think Lee and agent would sign.

You need to backload that a little for the sake of 2010 and finding trade suitors as well.

Year 1- 6 mil
Year 2- 7 mil
Year 3- 8.5 mil (That's a reasonable price as his max, if it was his max)
Year 4- 10.5 mil (Ending contract. There will be plenty of takers.)

I don't know if it CAN work like that, under the CBA, but it's very reasonable.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Pharzeone
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7/11/2009  2:39 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by kam77:

DW should offer 4 yrs and 36mil

year 1: 9 mil
year 2: 8.1 mil
year 3: 9 mil
year 4: 10 mil

If necessary, tack on a 5th year a 11 mil.

5 yrs, 47mil is pretty close to where I think Lee and agent would sign.

You need to backload that a little for the sake of 2010 and finding trade suitors as well.

Year 1- 6 mil
Year 2- 7 mil
Year 3- 8.5 mil (That's a reasonable price as his max, if it was his max)
Year 4- 10.5 mil (Ending contract. There will be plenty of takers.)

I don't know if it CAN work like that, under the CBA, but it's very reasonable.

I could be wrong but I don't think you are allow to backload extensions on rookie contracts. I think you can only backload on UFA contracts.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
EnySpree
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7/11/2009  3:21 PM
Anybody still think Donnie shoulda signed David Lee to an extention? Nobody is paying David more than his peers at his position. All these power fwds are equal or better...Why does Lee's agent think he can get 12 mill? its insane...he would be a Knick already if he took something similiar to what these guys got...smdh...

BTW....I think the Knicks should just offer the qualifying offer...which I think is 2.9 mil...and then walk away. Make no offer...force Lee's agent to get someone to sign him to an offer sheet. Done deal.

Like Donnie said...with the free agents he wanted turning the Knicks down...he has to refocus on other things...Lee wants to get paid, let his agent continue to **** him royally...2.9 qualifying offer and done!!!
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joec32033
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7/11/2009  5:22 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

Anybody still think Donnie shoulda signed David Lee to an extention? Nobody is paying David more than his peers at his position. All these power fwds are equal or better...Why does Lee's agent think he can get 12 mill? its insane...he would be a Knick already if he took something similiar to what these guys got...smdh...

BTW....I think the Knicks should just offer the qualifying offer...which I think is 2.9 mil...and then walk away. Make no offer...force Lee's agent to get someone to sign him to an offer sheet. Done deal.

Like Donnie said...with the free agents he wanted turning the Knicks down...he has to refocus on other things...Lee wants to get paid, let his agent continue to **** him royally...2.9 qualifying offer and done!!!

I think they already offered him their QO, Eny. But I get where you're going and I am riding shotgun.
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Allanfan20
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7/11/2009  5:27 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by kam77:

DW should offer 4 yrs and 36mil

year 1: 9 mil
year 2: 8.1 mil
year 3: 9 mil
year 4: 10 mil

If necessary, tack on a 5th year a 11 mil.

5 yrs, 47mil is pretty close to where I think Lee and agent would sign.

You need to backload that a little for the sake of 2010 and finding trade suitors as well.

Year 1- 6 mil
Year 2- 7 mil
Year 3- 8.5 mil (That's a reasonable price as his max, if it was his max)
Year 4- 10.5 mil (Ending contract. There will be plenty of takers.)

I don't know if it CAN work like that, under the CBA, but it's very reasonable.

I could be wrong but I don't think you are allow to backload extensions on rookie contracts. I think you can only backload on UFA contracts.

Well I don't think it is an extension anymore, correct? He has the QO, but since he declared for restricted free agency, doesn't that mean his contract is technically done for?

Perhaps I'm wrong. And if you're right, you're right. Oh well.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Pharzeone
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7/11/2009  6:41 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by kam77:

DW should offer 4 yrs and 36mil

year 1: 9 mil
year 2: 8.1 mil
year 3: 9 mil
year 4: 10 mil

If necessary, tack on a 5th year a 11 mil.

5 yrs, 47mil is pretty close to where I think Lee and agent would sign.

You need to backload that a little for the sake of 2010 and finding trade suitors as well.

Year 1- 6 mil
Year 2- 7 mil
Year 3- 8.5 mil (That's a reasonable price as his max, if it was his max)
Year 4- 10.5 mil (Ending contract. There will be plenty of takers.)

I don't know if it CAN work like that, under the CBA, but it's very reasonable.

I could be wrong but I don't think you are allow to backload extensions on rookie contracts. I think you can only backload on UFA contracts.

Well I don't think it is an extension anymore, correct? He has the QO, but since he declared for restricted free agency, doesn't that mean his contract is technically done for?

Perhaps I'm wrong. And if you're right, you're right. Oh well.

Technically it still will be his rookie contract because he is still restricted free agent off his rookie contract.

ii) A Team that makes a Qualifying Offer to a player following the second Option Year of his Rookie Scale Contract may elect simultaneously to offer the player an alternative Contract covering six (6) Seasons that provides Salary for the first Salary Cap Year equal to the Maximum Annual Salary under Article II, Section 7(a), with annual increases in Salary equal to 10.5% of the Salary for the first Salary Cap Year (a “Maximum Qualifying Offer”). Providing a player with a Maximum Qualifying Offer shall have the consequence described in Section 5(b) below. A Maximum Qualifying Offer shall be subject to the following:


(B) A Maximum Qualifying Offer shall state that the player’s Base Compensation for the first Season shall equal “the Maximum Annual Salary applicable to the player in the first Season of the Contract,” and that the Base Compensation in each of the five (5) subsequent Seasons shall “be increased by 10.5% of the Base Compensation for the first Season.” Such a Contract, if timely accepted by the player in accordance with subsection (ii)(D) below, shall be deemed amended to provide for specific Base Compensation for each Season covered by the Contract, based on the Maximum Annual Salary applicable to the player in the first Season.
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