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Insane if true--from Post this morning
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nyk4ever
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6/23/2009  10:43 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

Ricky upset at himself and already making excuses My man if you cant do it one on none--well I think we can easily get this kid at pick 8. Stay calm Knicks--stop hyperventilating Menudo will make it to 8 so you dont have to trade the farm for him.



Rubio, who had planned on working out for the Kings last week before he became sick on the trip, took part in an individual workout that included Petrie and coach Paul Westphal and lasted approximately an hour. While the session remained secret at the request of his representatives, he told The Bee it was a necessary exercise that hardly showcased his game.

"It's difficult to show them what I have to do on the court, because there are no teammates and nobody there," Rubio said at the Sacramento airport just before leaving town. "I can't show them what I do on the court. This workout is not my style. I need my teammates around me to play basketball. I was alone."

Rubio, who visited with Oklahoma City (which has the No. 3 pick) in Los Angeles on Saturday, and previously visited with Memphis (No. 2 pick) in Spain, said he was attempting to please the Kings by getting on the floor.

"When I came here, I was sick, so I had to come back to L.A. and then they wanted to watch me on the court, so I come back here to (do) some workouts with them and talk with them again," Rubio said. "But I had like a month with nothing (no playing) on the court, but I'm feeling good. I worked out with the coach in the workout. It was good."

How Rubio's session will impact the Kings' decision, however, remains to be seen. Just one day before, point guards Tyreke Evans (Memphis), Stephen Curry (Davidson) and Jonny Flynn (Syracuse) were the headliners in a mega workout in which they competed for the right to be picked fourth. Evans is believed to have left the best impression, showcasing his length and strength while getting to the rim as he pleased.

The scene was much different a day later, with his one-man workout unannounced and the curtain inside the facility closed. The approach to winning the Kings' favor is clearly different with Rubio, whose four pro seasons in Europe made him a known commodity overseas, and whose Olympic showing with the Spanish team last summer turned so many American heads.

Atleast he worked out. Wheres soft Thabeet been?
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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BRIGGS
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6/23/2009  10:47 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by BRIGGS:

Ricky upset at himself and already making excuses My man if you cant do it one on none--well I think we can easily get this kid at pick 8. Stay calm Knicks--stop hyperventilating Menudo will make it to 8 so you dont have to trade the farm for him.



Rubio, who had planned on working out for the Kings last week before he became sick on the trip, took part in an individual workout that included Petrie and coach Paul Westphal and lasted approximately an hour. While the session remained secret at the request of his representatives, he told The Bee it was a necessary exercise that hardly showcased his game.

"It's difficult to show them what I have to do on the court, because there are no teammates and nobody there," Rubio said at the Sacramento airport just before leaving town. "I can't show them what I do on the court. This workout is not my style. I need my teammates around me to play basketball. I was alone."

Rubio, who visited with Oklahoma City (which has the No. 3 pick) in Los Angeles on Saturday, and previously visited with Memphis (No. 2 pick) in Spain, said he was attempting to please the Kings by getting on the floor.

"When I came here, I was sick, so I had to come back to L.A. and then they wanted to watch me on the court, so I come back here to (do) some workouts with them and talk with them again," Rubio said. "But I had like a month with nothing (no playing) on the court, but I'm feeling good. I worked out with the coach in the workout. It was good."

How Rubio's session will impact the Kings' decision, however, remains to be seen. Just one day before, point guards Tyreke Evans (Memphis), Stephen Curry (Davidson) and Jonny Flynn (Syracuse) were the headliners in a mega workout in which they competed for the right to be picked fourth. Evans is believed to have left the best impression, showcasing his length and strength while getting to the rim as he pleased.

The scene was much different a day later, with his one-man workout unannounced and the curtain inside the facility closed. The approach to winning the Kings' favor is clearly different with Rubio, whose four pro seasons in Europe made him a known commodity overseas, and whose Olympic showing with the Spanish team last summer turned so many American heads.

Atleast he worked out. Wheres soft Thabeet been?

What in the world does Thabeet have to workout for? He's been on TV 100 times in the last 3 years--if they did proper due diligence and visited Uconn workouts prior and during the season--they would have all the information they need. And it seems like they do not like HT anyway--oh well.
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Nalod
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6/23/2009  10:52 AM

So much to write about players we hardley know.

What are we really doing?

Taking very young stud euros early from their mommas and making them into men.

After Griffo there is no clear cut picks. Teams will either get lucky or look stupid on this draft. We gonna see picks that "would-coulda-shoulda" picked and whine we should taken........

On thing is this draft is weak, so making two picks into the no. 2 pick is not that stupid so long as Walsh really really wants a player.

And that player will be a risky pick. If Rubio is seen as potentially a great player then Walsh has to gamble on him. Chandler is a nice player, but expendable if he thinks Gallo can be special.

Im down with taking the risks cuz with our asset base we can't play it safe.

At some point we have to make commitments.

For the Nash thing. Nash is horrible defender. Rubio is not. Rubio has longer arms which make him better, and a better passer potentially. Shooting is somting that can be improved. Nash long game is not as dangerous as his pull up mid range shot in a running game favored by MDA.

This is the big one:

IF WE CAN'T GET THABEET, CURRY OR RUBIO AND NOBODY IMPRESSES THEN THE 8TH PICK IS NOT VERY VALUABLE. IF WE CAN SECURE THE 5TH PICK AND CAN LAND CURRY OR RUBIO BASICALLY FOR WILSON THEN YOU DO IT. IF WE LIKE PLAYERS IN LOWER ROUNDS THEN WE CAN TRADE DOWN THE 8 FOR A PICK OR TWO. IF WE CAN'T GET RUBIO OR CURRY WITH THE 5TH THEN YOU TRADE THEM TO MEMPHIS AND GET WHO YOU WANT.

The logic is pretty simple.
crzymdups
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6/23/2009  11:02 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by MS:

First off all outside of the Arenas extension the Wizard can't be that dumb to give the number 5 pick away for Larry Hughes? Seriously the guy sucks and doesn't really help them win, unless James and Thomas are chemistry killers, which still makes no sense.

And if Donnie combines two lottery selections to get Rubio he should be fired. Vescey has to have this wrong. So the knicks have no depth a shortage of talent and we are going to put two Euros in the starting lineup that aren't great defenders, with no shot blocker??

We need depth. Flynn right now is tough, fast, performs under pressure and gets to the line. Rubio can pass, can't shoot, is weak, never gets to the line and isn't a rebounder.

Why not get James Harden at the 5, look to move Lee for Bayless in a sign and trade, and take another guy that can add depth.

To be honest--if the Knicks want Rubio--sit tight and he will be there at 8.

if you think the Kings are really down on Rubio I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you, my friend.

the kings are PRAYING he falls to 4. PRAYING. they hope if they play it cool that no one leapfrogs them and trades up to 2 or 3 to swipe him.

hey guys, jumper/no jumper - a lot of people who watch basketball saw the Olympics and saw an 18yr old Rubio make JKidd look like he was 56yrs old in addition to just playing smart/heady ball on the biggest stage in the world. he's 18 and he did that. when he's 20 or 22, he'll be even better. this kid is hands down the second pick in the draft, it's just a matter of who trades with Memphis.
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fishmike
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6/23/2009  11:10 AM
of course Thabeet has been on TV more. He's probably 25 year old.

There is tape on almost every game Rubio has played.

He won defensive player of the year last year in the most talented BB league in the world not the NBA

He's played against NBA stars who walked away impressed with his game and what he was able to do at 17 years old.

He's a gym rat and regarded as having an incredible work ethic.

Even GMs that dont like him admit his incredible BB IQ and innate ability.

He loves the game of BB

I AM NOT saying this guy is Lebron. But at 17 years old his game stood up against and impressed the best players in the world.

He's going to be a good player. Great? Star? The next Rafer Alston? None of us know. But he's got as much talent and upside as anyone else in this draft.

I wouldnt look to this guy as a savior. I'm not even sure he's a better choice than Curry at PG for us. What I love is he is about the team. Defend and distribute.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
PresIke
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6/23/2009  11:21 AM
Posted by Andrew:

never gets to the free throw line

I'm not sure if this statement has merit. Looking at his 08-09 ACB stats he averages over 4 FTs a game which is respectable.

yeah, this seems like a fallacious statement, and more likely "spin" from some coach hoping to get him.

you can also see he feels comfortable going to the basket, so how is it that he doesn't go the the ft line?

yeah, and in the previous year he averaged 5 fts a game, and in both seasons this was in 23 mpg.

his ft attempts per 40 minutes versus other pgs for 2008-09:

Rubio: 7.3 in 22 games (8.7 in 2007-08 in 34 games)
Evans 7.2
Curry: 8.8
Holiday: 2.6
Flynn: 6.5
Lawson: 7.9

and maybe more valuable is to look at the adjusted for pace 40 minutes averages:

Rubio: 7.1 (8.3 in 2007-08)
Evans: 7.0
Curry: 8.2
Holiday: 2.6
Flynn: 5.9
Lawson: 7.0


Flynn and Evans draft express profile says "ability to get to ft line," but Rubio goes more based on all of the stats we see. rubio's profile also says "ability to get to ft line," btw, all of this more dispells the statement there as myth or propaganda.

people also seem to forget (or don't realize) rubio hurt his wrist, had surgery, and missed 6 weeks early this year, so his stats may be affected by the injury.
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MS
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6/23/2009  11:26 AM
Right now Harden is going 5 according to Ford and Jennings is going 8 with Flynn and Holiday still on the board.

We don't have a shooting guard right now, we don't have a point and really could shore up those two spots.

Not to mention the Mobely contract and the ability to move Gallo/Chandler/Lee for additional talent. I love lee, but if he isn't in the plans why not trade him and jefferies to the wizards in a sign and trade deal for the fifth pick. That makes them a legit contender in the east, the hughes deal doesn't.

I like the idea of adding Williams as well that kid looks like he will be a very good pro
nyk4ever
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6/23/2009  11:51 AM
It's just a euro-bias is all. It's no more than that, whether people want to admit to it or not is a whole different story.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Cosmic
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6/23/2009  11:59 AM
Posted by Andrew:

never gets to the free throw line

I'm not sure if this statement has merit. Looking at his 08-09 ACB stats he averages over 4 FTs a game which is respectable.

Where's the statistics thread? We posted all of those stats in there I should have bookmarked it. Rubio was at best...average at getting to the FT line - what did he have ~120FTAs for his "season"? I wouldn't call it a strength. Jennings? Guy shot what 34FTAs in 40 games or something horrific like that? Not to mention that their 3FG%'s are atrocious combined with poor FT%'s lets you know right there neither even has a mid range game.

Do we really want to gamble on as much? I'm not feeling it.
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Cosmic
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6/23/2009  12:02 PM
Posted by Andrew:
Posted by Cosmic:

Also to mention Rubio's 6.6M buyout, something we can only give 500K towards. He doesn't have that money. So then what, we torch two lotto picks (5 and 8) into the #2, and end up with no player this year? And ZERO guarantee that he would ever come over here? Please....please no. We cannot afford to do this.

There was a sac bee article on the reduced buyout agreement.

http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/1965394.html

A hard number would be nice so teams know what they are dealing with. So would a guarantee he'd actually come to the states. We've seen it before with enough Euro's as apparently they are under no binding agreement to actually come play in the NBA after they are drafted.

Imagine grabbing #5, packaging it with #8 to land #2, selecting Rubio, and never seeing him or having him come over and be mediocre? Then watching #5 and #8 blow up on the Grizzles? Please no.

Yikes!
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Cosmic
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6/23/2009  12:03 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Andrew:

never gets to the free throw line

I'm not sure if this statement has merit. Looking at his 08-09 ACB stats he averages over 4 FTs a game which is respectable.

Yes stuff like this is stupid. The honest to goodness question marks are

Stupid? Chill.

Go look up his FTAs, his shooting percentages from 3pt and FT lines. Jennings too while you're at it. Then come tell me you're not uncomfortable with torching two potential lotto picks to move up to #2 to grab a player we don't even have any guarantee that he will show up to play.

Then go ahead and throw around the insults.
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kam77
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6/23/2009  12:05 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

Damn, the propaganda machine must be reunning on full-steam, where is all this coming from that Rubio is a bad defender?

As Fish pointed out in another thread..
Posted by fishmike:

still legged Rubio defensive player of the year in the ACB

ACB is the No.1 league in the world after the NBA

Rubio averaged 10 points, 6.1 assists and 2.2 steals in 22.2 minutes over his first 22 ACB appearances with DKV Joventut Badalona of Spain. He was named the ACB Defensive Player of the Year.

Rubio makes his rep by playing the passing lanes and gambling for steals (he does have nic elong arms). He won DPY based on gaudy steals stats just like a guy like Camby can win it here on gaudy blocked shot stats.

We all know how dubious that is. Allen Iverson is the same way. Gambles for steals. Doesn't mean you're able to keep an NBA pg from beating you off the dribble, which IMO is the epitome of perimeter defense.

lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
sebstar
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6/23/2009  12:08 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

It's just a euro-bias is all. It's no more than that, whether people want to admit to it or not is a whole different story.

This is a bad post, especially coming from you NYK. So questioning this kid who has major red flags in his game and physique, is shrouded in mystery, and is commanding a huge buyout and a lot of maneuvering is just euro bias? He's projecting as a top 3 pick, bro you have to put him under the microscope. Why is he so deserving of special treatment?

Dont know why you said that
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SupremeCommander
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6/23/2009  12:09 PM
coming into this past season the two biggest attacks that got lobbed Rubio's way was defense and long range shooting...

so what does he do but win defensive player of the year and (I believe) lead his league in 3P%.

and I have to say that it is completely ridiculous to essentially say that Larry Hughes and the #8 is too steep a price to pay for the PERFECT draft prospect. seriously, if someone said in April that Larry Hughes and #8 was a good enough package to get expirings and the #2 we all would have made fun of the comment

no brainer and I pray people actually believe that "the Knicks are giving up too much"
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misterearl
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6/23/2009  12:11 PM
Tyreke Evans will be an All Star in 3 years
once a knick always a knick
nyk4ever
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6/23/2009  12:11 PM
Posted by kam77:
Posted by nyk4ever:

Damn, the propaganda machine must be reunning on full-steam, where is all this coming from that Rubio is a bad defender?

As Fish pointed out in another thread..
Posted by fishmike:

still legged Rubio defensive player of the year in the ACB

ACB is the No.1 league in the world after the NBA

Rubio averaged 10 points, 6.1 assists and 2.2 steals in 22.2 minutes over his first 22 ACB appearances with DKV Joventut Badalona of Spain. He was named the ACB Defensive Player of the Year.

Rubio makes his rep by playing the passing lanes and gambling for steals (he does have nic elong arms). He won DPY based on gaudy steals stats just like a guy like Camby can win it here on gaudy blocked shot stats.

We all know how dubious that is. Allen Iverson is the same way. Gambles for steals. Doesn't mean you're able to keep an NBA pg from beating you off the dribble, which IMO is the epitome of perimeter defense.

I'm sorry Kam, but you're going to have really tell me that you've seen enough of Rubio to tell me that he can't guard guys off the dribble. Just like people here know that guys like Iverson gameble for steals, they know the same in Europe and I'm sure they wouldn't have selected him as DPY if he was a horrid defender with just a couple steals per game.
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crzymdups
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6/23/2009  12:13 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Tyreke Evans will be an All Star in 3 years

i agree with this.
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nyk4ever
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6/23/2009  12:14 PM
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by nyk4ever:

It's just a euro-bias is all. It's no more than that, whether people want to admit to it or not is a whole different story.

This is a bad post, especially coming from you NYK. So questioning this kid who has major red flags in his game and physique, is shrouded in mystery, and is commanding a huge buyout and a lot of maneuvering is just euro bias? He's projecting as a top 3 pick, bro you have to put him under the microscope. Why is he so deserving of special treatment?

Dont know why you said that

How is it a bad post. Although, I probably should have been more direct in who I was talking about (cough, Briggs, cough) since he says the same thing about every Euro player.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
SupremeCommander
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6/23/2009  12:15 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by kam77:
Posted by nyk4ever:

Damn, the propaganda machine must be reunning on full-steam, where is all this coming from that Rubio is a bad defender?

As Fish pointed out in another thread..
Posted by fishmike:

still legged Rubio defensive player of the year in the ACB

ACB is the No.1 league in the world after the NBA

Rubio averaged 10 points, 6.1 assists and 2.2 steals in 22.2 minutes over his first 22 ACB appearances with DKV Joventut Badalona of Spain. He was named the ACB Defensive Player of the Year.

Rubio makes his rep by playing the passing lanes and gambling for steals (he does have nic elong arms). He won DPY based on gaudy steals stats just like a guy like Camby can win it here on gaudy blocked shot stats.

We all know how dubious that is. Allen Iverson is the same way. Gambles for steals. Doesn't mean you're able to keep an NBA pg from beating you off the dribble, which IMO is the epitome of perimeter defense.

I'm sorry Kam, but you're going to have really tell me that you've seen enough of Rubio to tell me that he can't guard guys off the dribble. Just like people here know that guys like Iverson gameble for steals, they know the same in Europe and I'm sure they wouldn't have selected him as DPY if he was a horrid defender with just a couple steals per game.

Posted by Paladin55:

I'm here with Ricky, who's only 17 years old, and I know I've been through a lot to be where I am today. He already took part in the Olympics and I had to be 2 years in college and 3 in the NBA before making it. It's insane what he did until now.

I had already seen him on TV and I knew he had long arms with which he's very dangerous. I was leader in steals in the NBA last year and I knew I couldn't make fool of him, because he would steal the ball. Besides, the way he passes the ball is impressive, he penetrates to the basket and he doesn't think about him, he's unselfish, he always thinks about the team.

Chris Paul

I like kam but I'm going with Chris Paul on this one
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Marv
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6/23/2009  12:17 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by kam77:
Posted by nyk4ever:

Damn, the propaganda machine must be reunning on full-steam, where is all this coming from that Rubio is a bad defender?

As Fish pointed out in another thread..
Posted by fishmike:

still legged Rubio defensive player of the year in the ACB

ACB is the No.1 league in the world after the NBA

Rubio averaged 10 points, 6.1 assists and 2.2 steals in 22.2 minutes over his first 22 ACB appearances with DKV Joventut Badalona of Spain. He was named the ACB Defensive Player of the Year.

Rubio makes his rep by playing the passing lanes and gambling for steals (he does have nic elong arms). He won DPY based on gaudy steals stats just like a guy like Camby can win it here on gaudy blocked shot stats.

We all know how dubious that is. Allen Iverson is the same way. Gambles for steals. Doesn't mean you're able to keep an NBA pg from beating you off the dribble, which IMO is the epitome of perimeter defense.

I'm sorry Kam, but you're going to have really tell me that you've seen enough of Rubio to tell me that he can't guard guys off the dribble. Just like people here know that guys like Iverson gameble for steals, they know the same in Europe and I'm sure they wouldn't have selected him as DPY if he was a horrid defender with just a couple steals per game.

Posted by Paladin55:

I'm here with Ricky, who's only 17 years old, and I know I've been through a lot to be where I am today. He already took part in the Olympics and I had to be 2 years in college and 3 in the NBA before making it. It's insane what he did until now.

I had already seen him on TV and I knew he had long arms with which he's very dangerous. I was leader in steals in the NBA last year and I knew I couldn't make fool of him, because he would steal the ball. Besides, the way he passes the ball is impressive, he penetrates to the basket and he doesn't think about him, he's unselfish, he always thinks about the team.

Chris Paul

I like kam but I'm going with Chris Paul on this one

chris paul is a soft euro. of course he's sticking up for his kind.
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