Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by TMS:

even if u can take out the leaders there will be another madman to replace him... the cycle will never end unless u can somehow stir up a civil revolution within those countries & insert a US friendly regime.

IMO the only realistic way to try & combat this problem is through diplomacy & through non-violent action, whether that be through working out equitable compromises to disarm their nuclear facilities in exchange for economic aid, or if it comes down to it by voting UN economic sanctions & trade embargos against these countries so they will have no choice but to comply with the wishes of the world leaders... to start throwing our weight around & act like the big bully on the block with the biggest guns on the block is not going to win us any allies in the long run, only more enemies... that only makes the problem worse.

This country is building multiple enormous heavily fortified underground nuclear sites--they are not giving up these sites for any kind of aid. This is a country that is a true enemy of the United Sates which is preparing to become a heavily armed nuclear state capable of sending hundreds of warheads at the US and it's interests. We cannot let them achieve this level of combat ability. They are a culture of religious fanatics and are a premier sponsor of global terrorism right now. The ****ing IED's that have killed well over 1000 American troops have come through Iran. Iran's President has called for the entire obliteration of Isreal--to wipe them off the map.

Sorry but I have to think we have serious contingency plans that will includes a massive military strike--one that will put an end game to the story and make any other third world countries think twice. Thats whats going to happen--it's the only safe route for the US and its allies. We cant sit back--I hate violence war anything like that but I'm not for sitting on the sidelines here either.

I know a number of Iranians - some still living in Iran and some in Canada and the U.S. In a nutshell the situation is:
The educated, students, wealthy and business class are against Ahmedinajad and the radical muslims. They are the "opposition" party and people and are centered around the big cities. The Iranian people I know and have met are really nice people. Intelligent; open-minded; pleasant, etc. No, I haven't been to Iran but I've met them in other countries and here in the U.S.

The opposition recently came out against attacking Israel and focusing on taking care of Iran and its people. Now they are coming out against nuclear weapons. These people are moderates, intelligent and reasonable. Mousavi, the opposition candidate who won (probably) the election comes from one of the wealthiest families in Iran and is supported by moderate, powerful ayatollahs. That is probably why he is still alive and free.

Ahmadinajad, is mostly supported by the radical clergy, the poor and uneducated class , and the radical muslims. They also have the Basij, i.e. the paramilitary militia whom you see in the demonstrations beating up people and they were the ones who shot a number of demonstrators, including the girl on the videos, Nehda. They are also supported by the Revolutionary Guard - an army unit loyal to the radical clergy. The regular army is separate and I am not sure where they stand in all of this, but they have kept their distance.

Right now, it looks to me like Ahmadinajad wants to provoke the West and Israel into attacking so he can unite the people against the "imperialistic enemies of Islam". Iran is really badly splintered. Worse than it has been in the past 30 years.

Change has to come, but if we attack, we will be looked upon as the enemy. Not as a "liberating force". My hope is that the opposition can peacefully take over through political means. Eliminate this dictatorship. If they do, Iran will become a friend. A coup is another possibility, but the radical people are well-armed and trained. We'll have to see how this all plays out. And if needed I guess a military strike by us on their nuclear weapons is a last resort (I agree with Briggs on this), but not a good one for now. We can win this peacefully if the moderates in Iran take over.

Also, as coherence rises in world consciousness, the world will/is becoming more peaceful and sane. Emnity will just naturally dissolve and more peaceful leaders will emerge. There are groups actively working on this and it has been working....slowly but growing.

Posted by Markji:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by TMS:

even if u can take out the leaders there will be another madman to replace him... the cycle will never end unless u can somehow stir up a civil revolution within those countries & insert a US friendly regime.

IMO the only realistic way to try & combat this problem is through diplomacy & through non-violent action, whether that be through working out equitable compromises to disarm their nuclear facilities in exchange for economic aid, or if it comes down to it by voting UN economic sanctions & trade embargos against these countries so they will have no choice but to comply with the wishes of the world leaders... to start throwing our weight around & act like the big bully on the block with the biggest guns on the block is not going to win us any allies in the long run, only more enemies... that only makes the problem worse.

This country is building multiple enormous heavily fortified underground nuclear sites--they are not giving up these sites for any kind of aid. This is a country that is a true enemy of the United Sates which is preparing to become a heavily armed nuclear state capable of sending hundreds of warheads at the US and it's interests. We cannot let them achieve this level of combat ability. They are a culture of religious fanatics and are a premier sponsor of global terrorism right now. The ****ing IED's that have killed well over 1000 American troops have come through Iran. Iran's President has called for the entire obliteration of Isreal--to wipe them off the map.

Sorry but I have to think we have serious contingency plans that will includes a massive military strike--one that will put an end game to the story and make any other third world countries think twice. Thats whats going to happen--it's the only safe route for the US and its allies. We cant sit back--I hate violence war anything like that but I'm not for sitting on the sidelines here either.

I know a number of Iranians - some still living in Iran and some in Canada and the U.S. In a nutshell the situation is:
The educated, students, wealthy and business class are against Ahmedinajad and the radical muslims. They are the "opposition" party and people and are centered around the big cities. The Iranian people I know and have met are really nice people. Intelligent; open-minded; pleasant, etc. No, I haven't been to Iran but I've met them in other countries and here in the U.S.

The opposition recently came out against attacking Israel and focusing on taking care of Iran and its people. Now they are coming out against nuclear weapons. These people are moderates, intelligent and reasonable. Mousavi, the opposition candidate who won (probably) the election comes from one of the wealthiest families in Iran and is supported by moderate, powerful ayatollahs. That is probably why he is still alive and free.

Ahmadinajad, is mostly supported by the radical clergy, the poor and uneducated class , and the radical muslims. They also have the Basij, i.e. the paramilitary militia whom you see in the demonstrations beating up people and they were the ones who shot a number of demonstrators, including the girl on the videos, Nehda. They are also supported by the Revolutionary Guard - an army unit loyal to the radical clergy. The regular army is separate and I am not sure where they stand in all of this, but they have kept their distance.

Right now, it looks to me like Ahmadinajad wants to provoke the West and Israel into attacking so he can unite the people against the "imperialistic enemies of Islam". Iran is really badly splintered. Worse than it has been in the past 30 years.

Change has to come, but if we attack, we will be looked upon as the enemy. Not as a "liberating force". My hope is that the opposition can peacefully take over through political means. Eliminate this dictatorship. If they do, Iran will become a friend. A coup is another possibility, but the radical people are well-armed and trained. We'll have to see how this all plays out. And if needed I guess a military strike by us on their nuclear weapons is a last resort (I agree with Briggs on this), but not a good one for now. We can win this peacefully if the moderates in Iran take over.

Also, as coherence rises in world consciousness, the world will/is becoming more peaceful and sane. Emnity will just naturally dissolve and more peaceful leaders will emerge. There are groups actively working on this and it has been working....slowly but growing.

Unfortunately what you have is a very limited time window. I understand fully what the US wants to do compared to what they will ultimately have to do.

Another article today described the split between the present leader Ayatolah Khamenei and the family of the original Ayatollah Khomeini (name is slightly different) who overthrew the Shah and ruled Iran for the first 10 years. He was hated by us and for good reason, but loved by the people of Iran, and now his family, who are influential, support the opposition party and Mousavi. This split is another major problem for Ahmadinajad and it shows that Iran can/may sort this out themselves.

Posted by Markji:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by Markji:

Posted by BRIGGS:

[quote]Posted by TMS:

even if u can take out the leaders there will be another madman to replace him... the cycle will never end unless u can somehow stir up a civil revolution within those countries & insert a US friendly regime.

IMO the only realistic way to try & combat this problem is through diplomacy & through non-violent action, whether that be through working out equitable compromises to disarm their nuclear facilities in exchange for economic aid, or if it comes down to it by voting UN economic sanctions & trade embargos against these countries so they will have no choice but to comply with the wishes of the world leaders... to start throwing our weight around & act like the big bully on the block with the biggest guns on the block is not going to win us any allies in the long run, only more enemies... that only makes the problem worse.

This country is building multiple enormous heavily fortified underground nuclear sites--they are not giving up these sites for any kind of aid. This is a country that is a true enemy of the United Sates which is preparing to become a heavily armed nuclear state capable of sending hundreds of warheads at the US and it's interests. We cannot let them achieve this level of combat ability. They are a culture of religious fanatics and are a premier sponsor of global terrorism right now. The ****ing IED's that have killed well over 1000 American troops have come through Iran. Iran's President has called for the entire obliteration of Isreal--to wipe them off the map.

Sorry but I have to think we have serious contingency plans that will includes a massive military strike--one that will put an end game to the story and make any other third world countries think twice. Thats whats going to happen--it's the only safe route for the US and its allies. We cant sit back--I hate violence war anything like that but I'm not for sitting on the sidelines here either.

I know a number of Iranians - some still living in Iran and some in Canada and the U.S. In a nutshell the situation is:
The educated, students, wealthy and business class are against Ahmedinajad and the radical muslims. They are the "opposition" party and people and are centered around the big cities. The Iranian people I know and have met are really nice people. Intelligent; open-minded; pleasant, etc. No, I haven't been to Iran but I've met them in other countries and here in the U.S.

The opposition recently came out against attacking Israel and focusing on taking care of Iran and its people. Now they are coming out against nuclear weapons. These people are moderates, intelligent and reasonable. Mousavi, the opposition candidate who won (probably) the election comes from one of the wealthiest families in Iran and is supported by moderate, powerful ayatollahs. That is probably why he is still alive and free.

Ahmadinajad, is mostly supported by the radical clergy, the poor and uneducated class , and the radical muslims. They also have the Basij, i.e. the paramilitary militia whom you see in the demonstrations beating up people and they were the ones who shot a number of demonstrators, including the girl on the videos, Nehda. They are also supported by the Revolutionary Guard - an army unit loyal to the radical clergy. The regular army is separate and I am not sure where they stand in all of this, but they have kept their distance.

Right now, it looks to me like Ahmadinajad wants to provoke the West and Israel into attacking so he can unite the people against the "imperialistic enemies of Islam". Iran is really badly splintered. Worse than it has been in the past 30 years.

Change has to come, but if we attack, we will be looked upon as the enemy. Not as a "liberating force". My hope is that the opposition can peacefully take over through political means. Eliminate this dictatorship. If they do, Iran will become a friend. A coup is another possibility, but the radical people are well-armed and trained. We'll have to see how this all plays out. And if needed I guess a military strike by us on their nuclear weapons is a last resort (I agree with Briggs on this), but not a good one for now. We can win this peacefully if the moderates in Iran take over.

Also, as coherence rises in world consciousness, the world will/is becoming more peaceful and sane. Emnity will just naturally dissolve and more peaceful leaders will emerge. There are groups actively working on this and it has been working....slowly but growing.

Unfortunately what you have is a very limited time window. I understand fully what the US wants to do compared to what they will ultimately have to do.

--->Briggs, do we know how advanced their nuclear weapons development is? What is the time frame on this?


You answered your own question.