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Scoring efficiency and the Curry lovers
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JohnWallace44
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6/5/2009  7:24 PM
Here are the players that we need to beat on a nightly basis:

Point Guards
DHarris - 6'3" 185
Rondo - 6'1" 171
Miller - 6'2" 200
Calderon - 6'3" 210

Shooting Guard:
Vinsanity - 6'6" 220
Allen - 6'5" 205
Iguodala - 6'6" 207
Parker - 6'6" 215

Here's what we have:
Chris Duhon: 6'1" 185
Hughes: 6'5" 185

Here's what we have to choose from:
Curry: 6'3"
Holiday:6'4"
Evans: 6'5"
Flynn: 6'0"
Lawson: 6'0"
Collison: 6'1.5"
Harden: 6'0"
Henderson: 6'5"
Derozan: 6'6.5"
Maynor: 6'3.5"
Young: 6'6.5"
Williams: 6'6"
Thornton: 6'3.5"

Basically I think everyone on this board would trade any of the Atlantic's PG's for Duhon and any of the Atlantic's SG's for Hughes or Q.

We need this pick to spring us past the Nets, Celtics, Raptors and Sixers at one of the two positions. If we're not trying to be competitive in our own division then what are we doing exactly?

Derozan, if he's there, would give us the best chance to be on par at the SG position with the Atlantic. All of the PG's have risk involved. I say, use the depth to our advantage and grab one later in the round.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
AUTOADVERT
Cosmic
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6/5/2009  7:26 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by JohnWallace44:
How would we match up against the teams in the Atlantic with Curry selected #8 and a big selected late?
we won 32 games. Lets build a team that follows a style of play and can win some games. We can worry about match ups when we are losing in the first and second round each year

Agreed. We have not even finished tearing down Isiah's mess. That largely concludes next summer. Then we start building a new team. Well after that we worry about matchups or specific need-based trades. For now we need to keep dumping the trash while trying our best to acquire good young talent and other assets with the hope they either stick or are used down the road to help improve that 2010 and beyond team we are set on building.

Some seem so caught up in trying to improve this current roster and forget that that is not the plan at all....that the plan was and still is to finish tearing down the mess and starting over....and in the meantime hoping to catch some diamonds in the rough along the way.

It still amazes me some fans are still kind of lost on that. They keep trying to look at THIS roster and ADD to this roster to improve it and they are forgetting that out of this roster there are at tops 2 or 3 players out of a total of 5 present players that have ANY shot to be here past 2010. But, well, they'll learn when it all unfolds.
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Cosmic
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6/5/2009  7:28 PM
...and those five are probably Nate, Lee, Harrington, Duhon, Chandler, Gallo - so it's six really. Yet I don't expect more than 2... MAYBE 3 of these guys to be here for the 2010-2011 season.

So why people still look at this roster and think that adding any particular player will improve it is beyond logical to me. We take the BPA all the way and worry about the logjams later - of which will cure themselves as the 2010 contract expire (or are traded, who is to say we don't pull a "boston" some time the next 9 months with those 50M expirings).

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nixluva
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6/5/2009  8:06 PM
BPA is not the same as Most Upside! To me DeRozan may have the most upside, but that is full of risk. Holliday is also in a similar situation as DeRozan. These guys are much more raw than Curry. I'm not saying that it would be a mistake to draft potential, but Curry has a bit more of a sure thing going for him, in that we know what he's been able to do at the college level with almost no help. There's just more proof that Curry can live up to his potential.

This team is gonna be moving forward and MANY of the guys we have now won't be here shortly. Curry would be a good addition to our young core of Gallo, Chan and perhaps Lee.
Cosmic
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6/5/2009  8:32 PM
I see what you are saying but I think we did that last year with selecting Gallo, no? Chose a player with a tremendous upside but questionable in the BPA area of thought. This year I think we must go for the stable true BPA pick. Heck, one year that ended up Michael Sweetney, and that turned out to be a disaster, but the idea still stands. Even if we pick the BPA who is not in our plans it opens up the chance that a team below us coveted said player and would be willing to swap picks and take on Jeffries to make it happen - something intriguing like that.

And again, it may sound cliche or worn out, but this Knick roster is so poorly constructed, and at least 80% of it won't be here a year from today, and there is no bonafide starter for the future on the roster, that you MUST GO BPA at all costs. No risks this June 25th no risky picks you go for the solid pick and handle the logjam down the road.
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JohnWallace44
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6/5/2009  9:19 PM
Cosmic - Lee and Nate are gone or else the 2010 plan is gone... so Lee and Nate are gone.

As far as looking at the current roster, this is not Isiah time. I repeat, not Isiah.

What that means is that our "assets" that people are pointing to... aren't really assets that we can spend. Its like having a life insurance policy. You can't use it to buy a boat.

We can't take Al Harrington and flip him for a player because the incoming player can't have a contract through 2010. If the incoming player has an expiring deal, why would someone trade us a better player in that scenario? That's fantasy.

The best that you're going to do is a deal for a high-risk guy like T-Mac, or a salary dump combo deal like the reported Q-Darko-late pick deal.

All of that means that the roster is static. These guys aren't going anywhere. Jeffries and Curry are toxic assets in terms of their deals. We can't move the other guys for big time players.

What are you left with?

You're left with this pick, whatever you can get with Mobley's deal, and the 2010 pipedream and what's left of it when we get there.

So let's assume the Darko deal and your remaining roster is;

#8 Pick
#27 Pick (Grizz)
Duhon - expiring
Al Jr - expiring
Hughes - expiring
Darko - expiring
Jeffries - 2 yrs remaining
Curry - 2 yrs remaining
The Mayor - 2 years
Gallo - 3 years
+DLeague scraps

So what you see here is that for 2009-10, the roster needs a big boost to be able to compete at all, and specifically in the backcourt.

Now, in 2010-11 when we're supposed to sign some big time players and we'll see about that, but we're only going to have room to sign one and a half of those Max guys, and the rest of the roster will have to be filled out by exception level players, and at the end of that year we'll have to make a decision on Chandler.


You know, so yeah, let's just pick Curry. He makes me feel warm and fuzzy and I know his dad was a good guy. Go with the Charlotte, Minny model of building your franchise. Its worked for them.


This pick has to be taken very seriously for a multitude of reasons. We will only control Gallo, the Rooster and this pick as low cost, potentially impact players through July 2011, and hopefully we won't be picking this high again.

This pick also has to get us to a point talent wise where we can at least tread water from a competition standpoint. If we go through 2009-10 and win 20 games without getting a pick for our trouble, then MikeD and Donnie are going to be on some serious shaky ground and if Wade and LeBron have resigned by that point... ouch, they might just quit.

There are a handful of guys available to us or combinations of players if we can make the Memphis trade that I think have the potential to bridge the gap, get us through next year with 35 or so wins and point the way forward so that in 2010 maybe we can add a star, that would be great, or if they've resigned, we can add pieces and the Mayor, The Rooster and this year's pick(s) can be the core that will still make us a player in the East.

Curry can't do those things in my mind. He can't give you plus talent on both ends of the floor like Derozan, Evans and Holiday are capable of.

Derozan first and the best of the point guards late with Memphis' pick, bringing back Darko in the move is the best way to fill the holes at the 1,2,5 spots and take advantage of the makeup in of the draft.

Seems like its almost too easy, but there's probably only a 50/50 shot that Derozan will be there.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
TMS
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6/6/2009  2:35 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Derozan is 2-3 years away from being Wilson Chandler. He's a prospect. If this was a better draft he's a guy a team would be happy to take 15-25 because of the upside. He's so raw and unskilled and so many of these guys pick up a $1.8mm a year paycheck and playing BB just isnt the most exciting thing anymore. History is riddled with them.

all this talk about this being the worst draft class in 20 years is so off IMO... look at the class of '05 & tell me that was a better class than this one... fine, they had CP3, Deron Williams & Danny Granger... who's the next best guy outta that draft? David Lee? Charlie Villanueva?... this year's draft has 3 or 4 potential star players too at the very least in Griffin, Rubio, Derozan & Thabeet, & guys like Hill, Jennings, Harden, Curry, Evans, Holiday & Mullens also look like they can all be very good players w/the right development also... there's bound to me some sleepers that come along later in the draft like Lee did last year as well.

if a guy like Marvin Williams who wasn't even a starter on his team as a freshman can go #2 overall in that draft, then someone like Derozan can easily go #8 or better... it's all about upside potential when GM's draft young kids like this, not what they've already accomplished in the collegiate ranks.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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6/6/2009  2:36 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by JohnWallace44:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by JohnWallace44:
How would we match up against the teams in the Atlantic with Curry selected #8 and a big selected late?
we won 32 games. Lets build a team that follows a style of play and can win some games. We can worry about match ups when we are losing in the first and second round each year

Fish, what's your strategy to win games if we can't match up with Toronto, Philly, Boston or New Jersey?

Seriously, when you are building you can't worry about matchups. By the time we are truly set up to compete their rosters may be very different. We need to worry about building a balanced team first, then we can worry about how we match up.

we need to focus on getting potential star calibre players first & foremost... who we think will be the best player over the longhaul.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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6/6/2009  2:39 PM
Posted by Cosmic:

I see what you are saying but I think we did that last year with selecting Gallo, no? Chose a player with a tremendous upside but questionable in the BPA area of thought. This year I think we must go for the stable true BPA pick. Heck, one year that ended up Michael Sweetney, and that turned out to be a disaster, but the idea still stands. Even if we pick the BPA who is not in our plans it opens up the chance that a team below us coveted said player and would be willing to swap picks and take on Jeffries to make it happen - something intriguing like that.

And again, it may sound cliche or worn out, but this Knick roster is so poorly constructed, and at least 80% of it won't be here a year from today, and there is no bonafide starter for the future on the roster, that you MUST GO BPA at all costs. No risks this June 25th no risky picks you go for the solid pick and handle the logjam down the road.

there's no such thing as a "safe pick"... Channing Frye & Michael Sweetney were "safe picks", how'd they turn out for us? i'm sick of going "safe"... take a risk, go for the HR i say.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Marv
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6/6/2009  2:45 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Cosmic:

I see what you are saying but I think we did that last year with selecting Gallo, no? Chose a player with a tremendous upside but questionable in the BPA area of thought. This year I think we must go for the stable true BPA pick. Heck, one year that ended up Michael Sweetney, and that turned out to be a disaster, but the idea still stands. Even if we pick the BPA who is not in our plans it opens up the chance that a team below us coveted said player and would be willing to swap picks and take on Jeffries to make it happen - something intriguing like that.

And again, it may sound cliche or worn out, but this Knick roster is so poorly constructed, and at least 80% of it won't be here a year from today, and there is no bonafide starter for the future on the roster, that you MUST GO BPA at all costs. No risks this June 25th no risky picks you go for the solid pick and handle the logjam down the road.

there's no such thing as a "safe pick"... Channing Frye & Michael Sweetney were "safe picks", how'd they turn out for us? i'm sick of going "safe"... take a risk, go for the HR i say.

those 2 were really jack spratt and his wife weren’t they?
TMS
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6/6/2009  3:01 PM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Cosmic:

I see what you are saying but I think we did that last year with selecting Gallo, no? Chose a player with a tremendous upside but questionable in the BPA area of thought. This year I think we must go for the stable true BPA pick. Heck, one year that ended up Michael Sweetney, and that turned out to be a disaster, but the idea still stands. Even if we pick the BPA who is not in our plans it opens up the chance that a team below us coveted said player and would be willing to swap picks and take on Jeffries to make it happen - something intriguing like that.

And again, it may sound cliche or worn out, but this Knick roster is so poorly constructed, and at least 80% of it won't be here a year from today, and there is no bonafide starter for the future on the roster, that you MUST GO BPA at all costs. No risks this June 25th no risky picks you go for the solid pick and handle the logjam down the road.

there's no such thing as a "safe pick"... Channing Frye & Michael Sweetney were "safe picks", how'd they turn out for us? i'm sick of going "safe"... take a risk, go for the HR i say.

those 2 were really jack spratt and his wife weren’t they?

i don't follow... wtf is jack spratt?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Marv
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6/6/2009  3:03 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Marv:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Cosmic:

I see what you are saying but I think we did that last year with selecting Gallo, no? Chose a player with a tremendous upside but questionable in the BPA area of thought. This year I think we must go for the stable true BPA pick. Heck, one year that ended up Michael Sweetney, and that turned out to be a disaster, but the idea still stands. Even if we pick the BPA who is not in our plans it opens up the chance that a team below us coveted said player and would be willing to swap picks and take on Jeffries to make it happen - something intriguing like that.

And again, it may sound cliche or worn out, but this Knick roster is so poorly constructed, and at least 80% of it won't be here a year from today, and there is no bonafide starter for the future on the roster, that you MUST GO BPA at all costs. No risks this June 25th no risky picks you go for the solid pick and handle the logjam down the road.

there's no such thing as a "safe pick"... Channing Frye & Michael Sweetney were "safe picks", how'd they turn out for us? i'm sick of going "safe"... take a risk, go for the HR i say.

those 2 were really jack spratt and his wife weren’t they?

i don't follow... wtf is jack spratt?

u know - jack spratt could eat no motherf**king fat. his wife could eat no lean . . . . .

didn't your mammy read you bedtime nursery rhymes??
TMS
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6/6/2009  3:08 PM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Marv:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Cosmic:

I see what you are saying but I think we did that last year with selecting Gallo, no? Chose a player with a tremendous upside but questionable in the BPA area of thought. This year I think we must go for the stable true BPA pick. Heck, one year that ended up Michael Sweetney, and that turned out to be a disaster, but the idea still stands. Even if we pick the BPA who is not in our plans it opens up the chance that a team below us coveted said player and would be willing to swap picks and take on Jeffries to make it happen - something intriguing like that.

And again, it may sound cliche or worn out, but this Knick roster is so poorly constructed, and at least 80% of it won't be here a year from today, and there is no bonafide starter for the future on the roster, that you MUST GO BPA at all costs. No risks this June 25th no risky picks you go for the solid pick and handle the logjam down the road.

there's no such thing as a "safe pick"... Channing Frye & Michael Sweetney were "safe picks", how'd they turn out for us? i'm sick of going "safe"... take a risk, go for the HR i say.

those 2 were really jack spratt and his wife weren’t they?

i don't follow... wtf is jack spratt?

u know - jack spratt could eat no motherf**king fat. his wife could eat no lean . . . . .

didn't your mammy read you bedtime nursery rhymes??

my mom sang me Korean nursery songs when i was a kid... i bet you don't know who Santoki is. (& bukkake joke in 5... 4... 3... 2... )
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
JohnWallace44
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6/6/2009  3:49 PM
If lights out college shooters translated to the NBA game I might think differently, but I can't think of too many between Jesus Shuttlesworth and today that have made the leap well.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
Ira
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6/6/2009  5:54 PM
Still, the combine tests show that Curry isn't slow or unathletic. He's about average among the top point guard prospects. And he's not just a good shooter. He's the kind of shooter who can carry a team, and a pretty good floor general as well.
orangeblobman
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Nauru
6/6/2009  6:25 PM
Curry is the next reggie miller, but with a dash of steve nash/juan dixon to boot.
WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
Scoring efficiency and the Curry lovers

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